ryanair vs instructing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ryanair vs instructing
Hi all!
I have been offered to go for an interview for the €28.5k deal with ryanair, and my doubt is now:
Should I go for it (260 pounds the interview) regardless the financial problems I will have in the first years or should I try to find a job as an instructor (I have my FI rating on my license), which I am being told there's some available and hold there for a better deal which I am sure will come across at some stage?
Basically what I am asking here is for some similar experiences you may have already had (especially from people who are now working at ryanair or those who were in this situation and decided to instruct).
Please, don't enter into the "I am not paying for my type rating" thing generally, as this is quite more specific to ryanair and the deal you get with them.
Thank you very much in advance for any constructive input!
wf
I have been offered to go for an interview for the €28.5k deal with ryanair, and my doubt is now:
Should I go for it (260 pounds the interview) regardless the financial problems I will have in the first years or should I try to find a job as an instructor (I have my FI rating on my license), which I am being told there's some available and hold there for a better deal which I am sure will come across at some stage?
Basically what I am asking here is for some similar experiences you may have already had (especially from people who are now working at ryanair or those who were in this situation and decided to instruct).
Please, don't enter into the "I am not paying for my type rating" thing generally, as this is quite more specific to ryanair and the deal you get with them.
Thank you very much in advance for any constructive input!
wf
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: On the move
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a no brainer , jet time or 152 time , yup the first year will be hard but hey the jet time will be getting higher , once that is over you will be on +- 70 euro a hour.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, let me point out/ask a couple more issues/questions:
How much can you expect to earn during your first year with ryanair(from the assessment day up to one year afterwards)?(Better if someone already working at ryanair them can point this out)
How do you repay the loan (I don't have the 28.5k in my pocket) while not yet earning any money(or earning less monthly than loan repayment)?
Which bank does borrow you that an amount of money(28.5k + living expenses for ?6months? + interests till you can pay), with you not having a job offer/contract?(I am not a british/irish national and may not qualify for certain loans)
Any advice/info really appreciated
wf
How much can you expect to earn during your first year with ryanair(from the assessment day up to one year afterwards)?(Better if someone already working at ryanair them can point this out)
How do you repay the loan (I don't have the 28.5k in my pocket) while not yet earning any money(or earning less monthly than loan repayment)?
Which bank does borrow you that an amount of money(28.5k + living expenses for ?6months? + interests till you can pay), with you not having a job offer/contract?(I am not a british/irish national and may not qualify for certain loans)
Any advice/info really appreciated
wf
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Horsham, West Sussex
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry but this is a no-brainer and i'm definately not a fan of RyanAir's treatment of its pilots.
Sure flight instructing will make you a better pilot and certainly a better prospect then a low hours guy, but IMO it doesn't even come close to the personal development as a pilot you will experience operating a jet as a First Officer, which is far more complex and requires a far higher level of situational awareness then teaching students circuits in a 152.
I am not trying to put down flight instruction in any way but if your career goals is to fly jet airliners and you have been offered a jet job then take it, even if it involves lining Mr O'Leary's pockets. In 3 years you should have the experience to go work for a decent airline.
Good Luck!
Sure flight instructing will make you a better pilot and certainly a better prospect then a low hours guy, but IMO it doesn't even come close to the personal development as a pilot you will experience operating a jet as a First Officer, which is far more complex and requires a far higher level of situational awareness then teaching students circuits in a 152.
I am not trying to put down flight instruction in any way but if your career goals is to fly jet airliners and you have been offered a jet job then take it, even if it involves lining Mr O'Leary's pockets. In 3 years you should have the experience to go work for a decent airline.
Good Luck!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 260 pounds include the sim, so a good way for you to see a 737 simulator and see if you enjoy it or not. go for it...
as for paying for the type, it is risky.but if you don't take any risk, you wont get nothing.
I would suggest you to go for the selection and see by yourself, 260 pounds wont kill you.
as for paying for the type, it is risky.but if you don't take any risk, you wont get nothing.
I would suggest you to go for the selection and see by yourself, 260 pounds wont kill you.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets not turn this into the normal "OMG, Ryanair charge for everything" debate. The question has been asked and it's nothing to do with paying.
I don't think it's a no brainer. It depends on your age, if you are young I'd say instruct, money is improving and other doors do open once you're in the system, however, if you are on the wrong side of thirty, then you have to go for Ryanair, difficult for the first year it will be, but you will progress quickly.
YYZ
I don't think it's a no brainer. It depends on your age, if you are young I'd say instruct, money is improving and other doors do open once you're in the system, however, if you are on the wrong side of thirty, then you have to go for Ryanair, difficult for the first year it will be, but you will progress quickly.
YYZ
Join Date: May 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think it's a no brainer. It depends on your age, if you are young I'd say instruct, money is improving and other doors do open once you're in the system, however, if you are on the wrong side of thirty, then you have to go for Ryanair, difficult for the first year it will be, but you will progress quickly
Educated Hillbilly
It also depends on what kind of a deal you can get with the instructing. There are some instructor jobs out there now paying salaries/ decent daily retainers.
Early this year I had contemplated doing a type rating with either PARC or SKyblue. A week before the tr assessment I was offered a full time instructors job paying a respectable retainer. I opted for the full time instructors job.
At the end of nine months of full time instructing I was invited to four different airline interviews/assesments.
Received two offers as a result and consequently in the next few months I will be starting a turboprop type rating.
All four of these interviews/assesments were offering training bonds.
All I can say is I am glad I opted for the instructors route I am certainly £20,000 better off for it. As an instructor I was certainly earning more than a second officer at Ryanair.
Early this year I had contemplated doing a type rating with either PARC or SKyblue. A week before the tr assessment I was offered a full time instructors job paying a respectable retainer. I opted for the full time instructors job.
At the end of nine months of full time instructing I was invited to four different airline interviews/assesments.
Received two offers as a result and consequently in the next few months I will be starting a turboprop type rating.
All four of these interviews/assesments were offering training bonds.
All I can say is I am glad I opted for the instructors route I am certainly £20,000 better off for it. As an instructor I was certainly earning more than a second officer at Ryanair.
Educated Hillbilly
I did say Second Officer not First Officer.
Retainer + flight pay as an instructor worked out at about the equivalent of 18,000 a year, at this time of year the bad weather means I can't fly but I still get my retainer and can sit around wasting time on pprune.
Well I thought the SO pay scheme in the first year at Ryanair, was 850 a month for the first six months, then 850 a month + half sector pay, therefore the figure I heard quoted for Ryanair second officer in the first year was about the equivalent of 17000, plus if you consider the fact it costs you 30,000 (type rating + expenses during line training) to cover your first year at Ryanair, then effectively your first year you are working at a loss. So yes I will still claim to be better off than a Ryanair second officer in the first twelve months.
I am not saying don't go to Ryanair; I just think instructing in the long term leads to better and more interesting opportunities. If this guy already has invested in an instructors rating then I think my own experience shows that persevering in the FI field will yield a result in the end.
Retainer + flight pay as an instructor worked out at about the equivalent of 18,000 a year, at this time of year the bad weather means I can't fly but I still get my retainer and can sit around wasting time on pprune.
Well I thought the SO pay scheme in the first year at Ryanair, was 850 a month for the first six months, then 850 a month + half sector pay, therefore the figure I heard quoted for Ryanair second officer in the first year was about the equivalent of 17000, plus if you consider the fact it costs you 30,000 (type rating + expenses during line training) to cover your first year at Ryanair, then effectively your first year you are working at a loss. So yes I will still claim to be better off than a Ryanair second officer in the first twelve months.
I am not saying don't go to Ryanair; I just think instructing in the long term leads to better and more interesting opportunities. If this guy already has invested in an instructors rating then I think my own experience shows that persevering in the FI field will yield a result in the end.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 1st Dec 2007 at 12:33.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
I got nothing really to add to the views aired, they're all valid points of view but it is a sad indication of just how bad this industry has got, when people can have a serious for-and-against argument about the relative merits of instructing vs joining Ryanair!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: next door
Age: 38
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
willfifteen let's analyse the pros and cons (from my point of view):
Instructor + You are already a FI and Spain is the FTO's paradise! It's a rewarding experience and you will acquire very nice flying skills.
Instructor - Where to work? In Barcelona there's only one "serious" school, maybe you have to move away if you want to work in a proper environment. Salary is not competitive at the beginning as a single-engine VFR instructor.
Ryanair + B737NG, challenging, 2 bases in Barcelona (Reus available from Oct'08).
Ryanair - The initial outlay and T&C, as you should know... FR is not the most glamorous airline!
I do not know exactly how much money you'll earn during the 1st year as a SFO. As far as I know, during line training (2 months) only 750 or 1000 pounds. Then 50 per hour (less after tax).
If you think pay off the loan will be difficult for you, then you're a FI, find a job, enjoy teaching and flying and take your time, better opportunities will knock at your door!
Instructor + You are already a FI and Spain is the FTO's paradise! It's a rewarding experience and you will acquire very nice flying skills.
Instructor - Where to work? In Barcelona there's only one "serious" school, maybe you have to move away if you want to work in a proper environment. Salary is not competitive at the beginning as a single-engine VFR instructor.
Ryanair + B737NG, challenging, 2 bases in Barcelona (Reus available from Oct'08).
Ryanair - The initial outlay and T&C, as you should know... FR is not the most glamorous airline!
I do not know exactly how much money you'll earn during the 1st year as a SFO. As far as I know, during line training (2 months) only 750 or 1000 pounds. Then 50 per hour (less after tax).
If you think pay off the loan will be difficult for you, then you're a FI, find a job, enjoy teaching and flying and take your time, better opportunities will knock at your door!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,904
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
phf,
I assume your getting that info from ppjn.com? If so, I've seen it there for a long time too and am surprised how it has gone unchallenged. From the guys that I know who have started with FR recently. They were on 800p/m for only 2-3 months and then straight onto Brookfield contracts earning around £2k a month.
I assume your getting that info from ppjn.com? If so, I've seen it there for a long time too and am surprised how it has gone unchallenged. From the guys that I know who have started with FR recently. They were on 800p/m for only 2-3 months and then straight onto Brookfield contracts earning around £2k a month.
Registered User **
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It depends alot of what you want to do in your life with your license and Honestly, I would go for Ryanair if I were you.
The pay is not spectacular in the first years but if you instruct now and start on the line 5 years later, at that moment you will earn the same money as you would now.
Personally, don't take it too hard but I don't think that people asking this sort of questions belong in an airline cockpit.
It's a matter of common sense, and you will need that alot during your career believe me.
About the Ryanair deal and your eventual financial problems:
YES it's a self-sponsored training, but you will get a contract from Ryanair that says that you will be hired if you complete the TR, so in no way is it similar to students who just close their eyes and jump into a TR without job warranty.
Financial problems?
NO, if you show your job warranty stuff signed by Ryanair, any bank will get you enough money to spred-pay your TR in as many months as you want.
But you've not passed the selections yet, and if I were you I would fetch my books and start studying
The pay is not spectacular in the first years but if you instruct now and start on the line 5 years later, at that moment you will earn the same money as you would now.
Personally, don't take it too hard but I don't think that people asking this sort of questions belong in an airline cockpit.
It's a matter of common sense, and you will need that alot during your career believe me.
About the Ryanair deal and your eventual financial problems:
YES it's a self-sponsored training, but you will get a contract from Ryanair that says that you will be hired if you complete the TR, so in no way is it similar to students who just close their eyes and jump into a TR without job warranty.
Financial problems?
NO, if you show your job warranty stuff signed by Ryanair, any bank will get you enough money to spred-pay your TR in as many months as you want.
But you've not passed the selections yet, and if I were you I would fetch my books and start studying
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: By the sea
Age: 42
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asking people what to do is a point, but man the choice is yours. I've seen on this forum some guys cancelling there FR's interview after reading some post....It's nosense.
The fact is that today, Ryanair is the main opportunity for low hours pilot in Europe. If you have a look on OAT website, you'll see that over 50 recent graduated are now flying for Ryanair...Which means they paid over 80 000 pounds for their training... That's a hudge amount of money but they are all flying a B737NG.
I wish I'll never have to fly for FR, but if I don't have any other choice, I'll do it. Think of what you really want. It's not for sure the best position but your career is just beginning and you'll have many opportunities within the next years with 3 to 5 000 heavy jet hours.
260 pounds is not a big deal man, take the assessment, do your best, and simply do what you've trained for...
Cheers
The fact is that today, Ryanair is the main opportunity for low hours pilot in Europe. If you have a look on OAT website, you'll see that over 50 recent graduated are now flying for Ryanair...Which means they paid over 80 000 pounds for their training... That's a hudge amount of money but they are all flying a B737NG.
I wish I'll never have to fly for FR, but if I don't have any other choice, I'll do it. Think of what you really want. It's not for sure the best position but your career is just beginning and you'll have many opportunities within the next years with 3 to 5 000 heavy jet hours.
260 pounds is not a big deal man, take the assessment, do your best, and simply do what you've trained for...
Cheers
Educated Hillbilly
Yes it is based on the ppjn info, and you are probably correct in the figures you quote for the Brookfields contract.
It is probably fair to say that if you are going to pay for a rating Ryanair is not the worst scheme out there (at least they pay you something for the line training) unlike other SSTR schemes where you pay for the line training.
However, I will still vouch that instructing will yield more interesting opportunites.
It is probably fair to say that if you are going to pay for a rating Ryanair is not the worst scheme out there (at least they pay you something for the line training) unlike other SSTR schemes where you pay for the line training.
However, I will still vouch that instructing will yield more interesting opportunites.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SA
Sure flight instructing will make you a better pilot and certainly a better prospect then a low hours guy, but IMO it doesn't even come close to the personal development as a pilot you will experience operating a jet as a First Officer, which is far more complex and requires a far higher level of situational awareness then teaching students circuits in a 152.
Perhaps!I'm sorry willfifteen, I do not have any advice to give you. They both have their pro's and con's as you've already found out yourself. As it was said earlier you're the one with the answer as it will also depends on your personal situation.
Last edited by 2604; 1st Dec 2007 at 16:03. Reason: Typos