Ryanair cadet open day
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There are many people who are having all their training paid for by somebody else and can afford not to take a wage just so they can experience the perceived glamour that comes with being an airline pilot. Just accept it, stand by your own morals and enjoy the journey.
There are some great flying jobs about where you will be treated with respect, feel like your doing something constructive with your day and getting paid a fair wage for what you do. It might not be on a brand new 737 but there is plenty of time in your career to operate a factory fresh heavy.
There are some great flying jobs about where you will be treated with respect, feel like your doing something constructive with your day and getting paid a fair wage for what you do. It might not be on a brand new 737 but there is plenty of time in your career to operate a factory fresh heavy.
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Modern Monkey,
We do not live back in 70's or 80's when the pilots were being registered as being equal to lawyers and doctors in their salaries. Back then you were also a very respected person in society.
Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique.
But i guess Ryanair loves this fact.And we are just orbiting around this saying nothing. As my grandma said; "An angry dog just barks, but the sane one bites"
Good luck
We do not live back in 70's or 80's when the pilots were being registered as being equal to lawyers and doctors in their salaries. Back then you were also a very respected person in society.
Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique.
But i guess Ryanair loves this fact.And we are just orbiting around this saying nothing. As my grandma said; "An angry dog just barks, but the sane one bites"
Good luck
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Completely off-topic but I'm quite dissapointed in Skydrol Leak's comment...
"Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique."
With all due respect, what a load of old tosh. I come from a self-employed engineering background and a rough part of good old East London. I was successful in my previous work and used that to help finance my flight training, and now I'm on a lot less money teaching people to fly. Why should I not have the chance of achieving a lifetime ambition of sitting at the pointy end of an airliner? Unique to who?
"Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique."
With all due respect, what a load of old tosh. I come from a self-employed engineering background and a rough part of good old East London. I was successful in my previous work and used that to help finance my flight training, and now I'm on a lot less money teaching people to fly. Why should I not have the chance of achieving a lifetime ambition of sitting at the pointy end of an airliner? Unique to who?
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Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique.
To be able to afford flying training (yes it is possible completely of your own back!) it would take the average person 4-7 years to raise the fund. What do you suppose people do with their lives during that time? Furthermore, many people are put off flying training due to the cost, therefore they settle for something else in life later realising that flying is achievable.
On top of that, flying is a fragile career. The slightest screw up can ground you. The slightest ailment can ground you. Does it therefore make sense to devote your entire life to learning to fly aeroplanes and do nothing else but that? Nay, the plumbers and loading bay operators are more successfull than the posh little snotties who trained at age 18 with mummy's/daddy's money.
Last edited by Superpilot; 18th Nov 2007 at 09:47.
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1 post? I smell a troll or maybe just somebody who can't get into the airlines? Wonder why? 
Whatever, the comments are totally wrong and incorrect, and I'm glad I don't have to fly with people who have that sort of attitude.
Whatever, the comments are totally wrong and incorrect, and I'm glad I don't have to fly with people who have that sort of attitude.
Educated Hillbilly
Skydrol leak,
You seem to know nothing about pre-JAA training. Pre-2002 when the CAA self improver system (in reality modular training is still effectively the "self improver" route) was in place you could simply buy the books and self study for the CPL and ATPL exams, there was no requirement to do an approved ground school; so the JAA system is much less accessible than the old CAA system.
Further to this, although the ATPL subjects are technically not particulary difficult, the quantity of information to learn means that studying along side working is quite demanding (I found studying aero engineering full time easier than completing ATPLs distance learning).
Also if someone is a Plumber it would have been a very good career choice as a means of funding an ATPL.
You seem to know nothing about pre-JAA training. Pre-2002 when the CAA self improver system (in reality modular training is still effectively the "self improver" route) was in place you could simply buy the books and self study for the CPL and ATPL exams, there was no requirement to do an approved ground school; so the JAA system is much less accessible than the old CAA system.
Further to this, although the ATPL subjects are technically not particulary difficult, the quantity of information to learn means that studying along side working is quite demanding (I found studying aero engineering full time easier than completing ATPLs distance learning).
Also if someone is a Plumber it would have been a very good career choice as a means of funding an ATPL.
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Blame the consumer - prices are constantly being driven down through supply and demand and costs have to be recouped elsewhere. I say again, not just Ryanair charge for assessment.
The skills assessment for OATS is £195
The skills assessment for Cabair is £117.50
..these two your paying for the priviledge of forking out another £60,000, and doesn't include a job offer (unless your on a sponsored scheme, that's a little different)
Here's some more statistics:
CityJet current SO base pay is £15,400 plus £20 a sector plus bond for TR
Air Southwest FO base pay is £18,000 plus £5 a day flying on a 4 year 20k bond with no reduction in first year
Flybe starting salary £23,000 plus £1.90 p/h with TR bond.
Aren't figures fun to play with?
They'll find some way to get you for your money, whoever you work for. My RYR assessment cost me £265 and for that I got near on 2 full hours in the 737-800 sim. Whatever the result that'd be money well spent for Level D sim time even if I only did it for the practice!
Horgy
The skills assessment for OATS is £195
The skills assessment for Cabair is £117.50
..these two your paying for the priviledge of forking out another £60,000, and doesn't include a job offer (unless your on a sponsored scheme, that's a little different)
Here's some more statistics:
CityJet current SO base pay is £15,400 plus £20 a sector plus bond for TR
Air Southwest FO base pay is £18,000 plus £5 a day flying on a 4 year 20k bond with no reduction in first year
Flybe starting salary £23,000 plus £1.90 p/h with TR bond.
Aren't figures fun to play with?
They'll find some way to get you for your money, whoever you work for. My RYR assessment cost me £265 and for that I got near on 2 full hours in the 737-800 sim. Whatever the result that'd be money well spent for Level D sim time even if I only did it for the practice!
Horgy
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One certainly CAN argue about FR. The shafting doesn't ever stop there, ask the new hires how much it costed to use the pool for the ditching drills. 
Air southwest, flybe, and cityjet all pay for re-currency training and expenses after they have given you a job. Don't get the FR TR scheme mixed up with a training bond, 2 very different philosophies.
Air southwest, flybe, and cityjet all pay for re-currency training and expenses after they have given you a job. Don't get the FR TR scheme mixed up with a training bond, 2 very different philosophies.
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Horgy, stop trying to bend figures to make Ryan Air not seem so bad! I know you are going to work for them and I congratulate you on getting the post, wish you luck and an am sure it will be the start of a rewarding career, but no amount of bending figures will make their approach look worthwhile.
From what mercenary pilot says you will even have to pay for the pool hire to do the ditching drills!
Comparing Ryan Air's interview charge with OAT and Cabair's assesment charge is a complete non-starter. They are training organisations, where by you pay them for their service. Ryan Air are an employer. In case you hadn't realised an employerpays you for your service.
You then compare the sallaries and training bonds at other airlines with Ryan Air.
1. Being bonded by an air line is not same as paying for a TR. Airlines bond people as a means of protecting their investment in their pilots, so that you don't get the TR and then piss off straight away and work for someone else. Work for them for the bond period and you get the TR for free. Also, has it escaped your attention that on a Brookfields Ryan Air contract you are bonded for two years for the cost of your line training?
2. You then quoute the salaries at City Jet, Southwest and Flybe. What is your point here, that they are less than Ryan Air FO pay? Tell me, what exactly will a Ryan Air FO earn in their first year. Having paid for the TR, paid for their accommodation during line training, paid for their uniform and lived off £800 a month for the training period id say around -£10,000.
You then go on to imply that you have gotten some kind of value out of paying £265 for your 2 hr sim assesment in a Ryan Air sim. Agreed, that is cheap for 737 sim hire and the practice may stand you in good stead for another sim check, but you again have missed the very piont of the sim assesment. Ryan Air were assesing you for a job. They weren't offering some kind of "737 Sim Experience". You were a potential employee, not a customer!
I concur Horgy that you are in this flying game not for the reason of it being a viable career, from which you will gain financially, pay a mortgage and keep your future wife and children in a good manner, but for the reason of it being some kind of "Jim'll Fix It" experience, for which you are willing to pay.
Sadly I think that there are many of your type around, such as those who pay for line training with the likes of Eagle Jet, people who want to buy into a slice of the "airline pilot experience". People for whom emplyoment by an airline is not a job, but a product which they can buy.
Ryan Air have seen the market for those kind of people and are exploiting it, as I probably would do if I were in their position. For wannabe's they are not an employer but a "Jim'll fix it" airline, with plenty of customers.
From what mercenary pilot says you will even have to pay for the pool hire to do the ditching drills!
Comparing Ryan Air's interview charge with OAT and Cabair's assesment charge is a complete non-starter. They are training organisations, where by you pay them for their service. Ryan Air are an employer. In case you hadn't realised an employerpays you for your service.
You then compare the sallaries and training bonds at other airlines with Ryan Air.
1. Being bonded by an air line is not same as paying for a TR. Airlines bond people as a means of protecting their investment in their pilots, so that you don't get the TR and then piss off straight away and work for someone else. Work for them for the bond period and you get the TR for free. Also, has it escaped your attention that on a Brookfields Ryan Air contract you are bonded for two years for the cost of your line training?
2. You then quoute the salaries at City Jet, Southwest and Flybe. What is your point here, that they are less than Ryan Air FO pay? Tell me, what exactly will a Ryan Air FO earn in their first year. Having paid for the TR, paid for their accommodation during line training, paid for their uniform and lived off £800 a month for the training period id say around -£10,000.
You then go on to imply that you have gotten some kind of value out of paying £265 for your 2 hr sim assesment in a Ryan Air sim. Agreed, that is cheap for 737 sim hire and the practice may stand you in good stead for another sim check, but you again have missed the very piont of the sim assesment. Ryan Air were assesing you for a job. They weren't offering some kind of "737 Sim Experience". You were a potential employee, not a customer!
I concur Horgy that you are in this flying game not for the reason of it being a viable career, from which you will gain financially, pay a mortgage and keep your future wife and children in a good manner, but for the reason of it being some kind of "Jim'll Fix It" experience, for which you are willing to pay.
Sadly I think that there are many of your type around, such as those who pay for line training with the likes of Eagle Jet, people who want to buy into a slice of the "airline pilot experience". People for whom emplyoment by an airline is not a job, but a product which they can buy.
Ryan Air have seen the market for those kind of people and are exploiting it, as I probably would do if I were in their position. For wannabe's they are not an employer but a "Jim'll fix it" airline, with plenty of customers.
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The problem in the world of aviation a lot of young people have a dream : flying.
So they do everything to get this job, and they sometimes pay for this.
the problem, is a lot of youngs when they passed the inteview, they believe that MR Ryanair give them a job. "Oh thank you Mr Ryanair, you are helpful, I will do my best...etc"
But today they forget that a company do not give you a job because you it is your dream but they just need people to get money more and more.
I completely agree with modern Monkey, but there will be always people who pay for a job, that's life.
Maybe they are just naive or maybe they don't want fly a beech or ATR just because it is not boeing or airbus. It is a choice.
But to be honest, I would be happy if I had money to pay my TR and get a job with Ryanair. Because I will fly.
But I won't be proud of me. Not really I guess. Because it is easier to pay a TR and get a job with Ryanair than pass tests () of British Airways or other major.
So I would always wonder if I deserved it...
the difference with a company who pay you a TR etc, they believe in you, I guess it is more respectable. Just a thought.
So they do everything to get this job, and they sometimes pay for this.
the problem, is a lot of youngs when they passed the inteview, they believe that MR Ryanair give them a job. "Oh thank you Mr Ryanair, you are helpful, I will do my best...etc"
But today they forget that a company do not give you a job because you it is your dream but they just need people to get money more and more.
I completely agree with modern Monkey, but there will be always people who pay for a job, that's life.
Maybe they are just naive or maybe they don't want fly a beech or ATR just because it is not boeing or airbus. It is a choice.
But to be honest, I would be happy if I had money to pay my TR and get a job with Ryanair. Because I will fly.
But I won't be proud of me. Not really I guess. Because it is easier to pay a TR and get a job with Ryanair than pass tests (
) of British Airways or other major.So I would always wonder if I deserved it...
the difference with a company who pay you a TR etc, they believe in you, I guess it is more respectable. Just a thought.
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For a lot of people it comes down to a choice, either stay unemployed watching other people getting jobs or join Ryanair and get a lot of hours on a great aircraft type. Is it right? No of course it isn't, do any of us want to have to pay for a TR? Again no of course we bloody well don't! but the industry has changed, very few airlines don't give you a reduced salary for X number of years on joining to pay for the TR. I'm not making excuses but some of us aren't just going to sit around whilst the industry enters a period of consolidation (most recruitment is slowing or stopping at the moment) as we get more and more out of flying practice. Ryanair isn't the evil devil that everyone makes out, neither is it the shining light that some people say it is.
I know a lot of people flying for Ryanair (who's opinion about the airline I trust a lot more then most of you lot who generally have no idea what its like!) and they don't have a problem with it. It basically does what it says on the tin, yes it costs you money to get in. BUT it also offers things in return, a not unreasonable salary once you finish training, a LOT of hours on brand new 737NGs with a lot of hands on flying and lots of NPAs.
Its a very similar argument to going integrated or modular, there is nothing hugely wrong with either ways but it comes down to a choice.
I know a lot of people flying for Ryanair (who's opinion about the airline I trust a lot more then most of you lot who generally have no idea what its like!) and they don't have a problem with it. It basically does what it says on the tin, yes it costs you money to get in. BUT it also offers things in return, a not unreasonable salary once you finish training, a LOT of hours on brand new 737NGs with a lot of hands on flying and lots of NPAs.
Its a very similar argument to going integrated or modular, there is nothing hugely wrong with either ways but it comes down to a choice.
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Skydrol or should I say 00SEVEN
Anybody remember this thread, "Ryanair, the initial outlay" ?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=293406
Sir you really are a pnumpty. Rearrange these letters please Dcik-Fcae.
Anybody remember this thread, "Ryanair, the initial outlay" ?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=293406
Sir you really are a pnumpty. Rearrange these letters please Dcik-Fcae.
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Two pages in and we're already deep into the RYR argument again
You miss my point. My point was that in a consumer society, businesses seek to minimise as much expenditure as possible. I agree paying for an assessment is tantamount to extortion, but that is the world we live in now. It's not just airlines either, some train operating companies now charge for assessment as well!
OAT and Cabair want your hard earned/borrowed money as much as other schools. But why doesn't FTE charge? They put you up in their accomodation for the duration of the assessment as well! You see what i'm getting at? Some people charge, some don't. People saying RYR are the devil because they charge holds no water with me anymore, because that's where the industry is anyway.
Point taken about bonding, but if a 20k 4 year bond needs only another 5k a year in salary to be equal, i'd rather take the salary increase - that is my personal perogative though.
Your point about being bonded for line training is incorrect. I have my contract in front of me - "should I fail to accept a permanent position with Ryanair I will be liable for my line training" - it makes no mention of Brookfield contracts, if I am not offered a Ryanair contract I can walk away.
I don't quite understand this. In other threads you chastise CityJet for their low pay, now you seem to be supporting it?
Assuming I have 2 1/2 months line training, and taking into account I am not paid for my TR, a quick fag packet calculation shows I will earn £24,099 in my first year at Ryanair if I take a Brookfield contract. That assumes I fly 80hours a month, and the exchange rates remains 1.43 - with the Euro getting stronger this may increase my salary. My second year earnings would be £46,153. Take out of that my loan payment of £150 for my TR living costs, and £1,000 for my monthly bank loan.
I use this example purely to show the value for money for the actual assessment, and not to show I was on some jolly in my own time. I discussed the actual payment and why it's there above.
You'd think that if I was just in it for just a fun experience I wouldn't have got myself £68,000 in debt for the priviledge - I could have built a flightdeck in my garage for that price, and let my friends fly it for free as well. Maybe I could have started a line in sim practive sessions! 
I'm not buying into the business for a laugh, but merely establishing a foothold in an increasingly difficult market to penetrate. I don't defend what's going on with the industry, my point is that it is happening whether people like it or not, and it's probably here to stay. As people have said, Ryanair is good experience, plenty of hours on a relevant type, different approaches, and different people. Your don't get that at EagleJet - or a job offer at the end of it either.
Horgy
Comparing Ryan Air's interview charge with OAT and Cabair's assesment charge is a complete non-starter. They are training organisations, where by you pay them for their service. Ryan Air are an employer. In case you hadn't realised an employer pays you for your service.
OAT and Cabair want your hard earned/borrowed money as much as other schools. But why doesn't FTE charge? They put you up in their accomodation for the duration of the assessment as well! You see what i'm getting at? Some people charge, some don't. People saying RYR are the devil because they charge holds no water with me anymore, because that's where the industry is anyway.
1. Being bonded by an air line is not same as paying for a TR. Airlines bond people as a means of protecting their investment in their pilots, so that you don't get the TR and then piss off straight away and work for someone else. Work for them for the bond period and you get the TR for free. Also, has it escaped your attention that on a Brookfields Ryan Air contract you are bonded for two years for the cost of your line training?
Your point about being bonded for line training is incorrect. I have my contract in front of me - "should I fail to accept a permanent position with Ryanair I will be liable for my line training" - it makes no mention of Brookfield contracts, if I am not offered a Ryanair contract I can walk away.
2. You then quoute the salaries at City Jet, Southwest and Flybe. What is your point here, that they are less than Ryan Air FO pay? Tell me, what exactly will a Ryan Air FO earn in their first year. Having paid for the TR, paid for their accommodation during line training, paid for their uniform and lived off £800 a month for the training period id say around -£10,000.
Assuming I have 2 1/2 months line training, and taking into account I am not paid for my TR, a quick fag packet calculation shows I will earn £24,099 in my first year at Ryanair if I take a Brookfield contract. That assumes I fly 80hours a month, and the exchange rates remains 1.43 - with the Euro getting stronger this may increase my salary. My second year earnings would be £46,153. Take out of that my loan payment of £150 for my TR living costs, and £1,000 for my monthly bank loan.
You then go on to imply that you have gotten some kind of value out of paying £265 for your 2 hr sim assesment in a Ryan Air sim. Agreed, that is cheap for 737 sim hire and the practice may stand you in good stead for another sim check, but you again have missed the very piont of the sim assesment. Ryan Air were assesing you for a job. They weren't offering some kind of "737 Sim Experience". You were a potential employee, not a customer!
I concur Horgy that you are in this flying game not for the reason of it being a viable career, from which you will gain financially, pay a mortgage and keep your future wife and children in a good manner, but for the reason of it being some kind of "Jim'll Fix It" experience, for which you are willing to pay....
I'm not buying into the business for a laugh, but merely establishing a foothold in an increasingly difficult market to penetrate. I don't defend what's going on with the industry, my point is that it is happening whether people like it or not, and it's probably here to stay. As people have said, Ryanair is good experience, plenty of hours on a relevant type, different approaches, and different people. Your don't get that at EagleJet - or a job offer at the end of it either.
Horgy
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I must say that the Ryanair open day was very good!!! I really would strongly recommend visiting if you get the opportunity!!
Yes it's £10 pounds but you do get a tour of their facility at EMA and even get to have a quick go in their full level d flight simulator. As far as i'm concerned it was money well spent!! They even have coffee FREE!!!
You get a really good insight into Ryanair and how the company works and you can give your CV to Ash if you would like an interview!
It really did iron out some of the bull sht you read on here!
JJ
Yes it's £10 pounds but you do get a tour of their facility at EMA and even get to have a quick go in their full level d flight simulator. As far as i'm concerned it was money well spent!! They even have coffee FREE!!!
You get a really good insight into Ryanair and how the company works and you can give your CV to Ash if you would like an interview!
It really did iron out some of the bull sh
t you read on here!JJ
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Hi Press man,
If I get in, don't worry i'm a member of BALPA and obviously would support all my colleagues. We are all members of the same team and when the need calls, we need to maintain cohesion as we're all in the same boat or plane:-)
I understand that there is a lot of truth here on pprune, however i also understand that there are things in which the truth has been ever so slightly stretched.
However, a career with Ryanair is so appealing
Regards
JJ
If I get in, don't worry i'm a member of BALPA and obviously would support all my colleagues. We are all members of the same team and when the need calls, we need to maintain cohesion as we're all in the same boat or plane:-)
I understand that there is a lot of truth here on pprune, however i also understand that there are things in which the truth has been ever so slightly stretched.
However, a career with Ryanair is so appealing
Regards
JJ
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We are all members of the same team and when the need calls, we need to maintain cohesion as we're all in the same boat or plane
Good luck to all those who choose the FR path but make sure you go in with your eyes WIDE open. I would also try to get on an FR contract and not a brookfield. 25k is a lot of money for a TR, you could spend half that amount and still become a contract pilot.
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Hello everyone,
Im looking to start my flying career but not sure which direction to take it. Im currently working as cabin crew and I am aware of the fact that ryanair crew do work a lot. But to be honest i dont care if they are going to help me get a step closer to my dream job.
Im thinking about attending the next open day with RYR in february. I was wondering if anyone had some more info? Do they train you up from the very beginning? Ive no PPL and have only had around 10 hours of flying experience. It is going to be similar to the CTC scheme or is the RYR just a rating course onto their 738?
Thanks in advance everyone!!
Im looking to start my flying career but not sure which direction to take it. Im currently working as cabin crew and I am aware of the fact that ryanair crew do work a lot. But to be honest i dont care if they are going to help me get a step closer to my dream job.
Im thinking about attending the next open day with RYR in february. I was wondering if anyone had some more info? Do they train you up from the very beginning? Ive no PPL and have only had around 10 hours of flying experience. It is going to be similar to the CTC scheme or is the RYR just a rating course onto their 738?
Thanks in advance everyone!!
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crewboy
i seriously suggest having a good long look throught the many threads on this forum...Ryanair wilnot pay for any of your training - type rating included - infact no-one (except RAF) pays for the training, you either have to stump up cash in advance or you pay it back over several years via a "salary sacrifice" scheme once you start work.
I'm afraid you will have to expect to shell out many tens of thousands of pounds which ever way you decide to obtain the licence. Then you will have to join the queue of many seeking that first job.
Best of british...
i seriously suggest having a good long look throught the many threads on this forum...Ryanair wilnot pay for any of your training - type rating included - infact no-one (except RAF) pays for the training, you either have to stump up cash in advance or you pay it back over several years via a "salary sacrifice" scheme once you start work.
I'm afraid you will have to expect to shell out many tens of thousands of pounds which ever way you decide to obtain the licence. Then you will have to join the queue of many seeking that first job.
Best of british...
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Sorry, I think i may have mis-worded what i had put in my post. I am fully aware of the fact I am going to be paying, I have just been turned down by CTC but i was more than aware of the £70,000!
Thanks for answering my question regarding the RYR training!
Thanks for answering my question regarding the RYR training!