BALPA 2007 EOC Conference
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Here's my 2 cents worth. I echo Cortina's and Horgy's sentiments.
Yes I attended, yes I started a thread on here questioning how much it cost and got a lot of abuse, do I feel vindicated after what I seen and heard there? Pretty much.
Heres a few talking points maybe worth addressing:
95% of the attendees had little to no experience after achieving their CPL/IR - Globespan, Monarch (do these two recognise BALPA? - unsure)Jet2, Easy and XL don't attend while Emirates/Etihad etc. do (Did anyone else roll their eyes at talk of 'its a great place to live, amazing benefits, and all you need to have is 4,000 hours') In terms of addressing the needs of the vast number in the audience, I can't help but feel that BALPA missed the mark on this. By hook or by crook they should have been there.
There was no need for the lunch for the delegates, for the speakers, if it encourages them to attend, well then yes, of course, a minor bit of hospitality for them for what is a long day.
What purpose do Flyer Magazine (under the auspices of thier publisher) have and why do they have a presence there?
I really do wonder what the two ME Airlines gained from attending appart from a little kudos and brownie points with BALPA, both said they needed pilots, I'd be interested out of what 350? attendees how many CV's they took between them.
Someone during the Q&A session asked about what BALPA made of foreign pilots coming into the UK market. I think the panel missed what was asked by and large however Maggie did have some pertinent points, namely:
We speak English, language of the air is English therefore it makes the industry here (with 27 EU countries and Commonwealth Citizens on ancestory visas) a big draw.
Airlines do have commercial pressures, I understand that, but bringing in Foreign contract pilots to take the strain in our busy periods surely stifles homegrown talent getting onto the ladder and makes the transition to LHS for UK pilots that little bit harder.
I can count a number of examples where other country CAA/Governments actively block hiring or put barriers in the way to make it tricky to hire non-nationals, obviously they have to be clever how they do this to avoid lawsuits but it does happen. I can't speak for him but I took what the questioner was asking was if a lot of other nations are doing this why are we not taking action to promote the talent already here and champing at the bit to get flying.
Sorry if that offends any Saffers, Canucks, Ozzies or Kiwi's.
Ultimately, half the airlines - you couldn't approach because of requirements, another 25% had a freeze on hiring for the time, the only ones that were doing anything where those who had the big snakey queues.
The outcome for me:
Confirmed by the president, UK market, despite growth is currently stagnant, jobs are out there but involves Asia, Far East.
Mergers of 4 into 2 and two takeovers has meant this summer has been all about consolodation and restructing (i.e. no hiring).
And for newbies out there, many CP's can't see by a integrated school which is dissapointing.
If I was starting again I'd aim for CTC, however I think the current format will change in the year ahead just due to commercial pressures.
Yes I attended, yes I started a thread on here questioning how much it cost and got a lot of abuse, do I feel vindicated after what I seen and heard there? Pretty much.
Heres a few talking points maybe worth addressing:
95% of the attendees had little to no experience after achieving their CPL/IR - Globespan, Monarch (do these two recognise BALPA? - unsure)Jet2, Easy and XL don't attend while Emirates/Etihad etc. do (Did anyone else roll their eyes at talk of 'its a great place to live, amazing benefits, and all you need to have is 4,000 hours') In terms of addressing the needs of the vast number in the audience, I can't help but feel that BALPA missed the mark on this. By hook or by crook they should have been there.
There was no need for the lunch for the delegates, for the speakers, if it encourages them to attend, well then yes, of course, a minor bit of hospitality for them for what is a long day.
What purpose do Flyer Magazine (under the auspices of thier publisher) have and why do they have a presence there?
I really do wonder what the two ME Airlines gained from attending appart from a little kudos and brownie points with BALPA, both said they needed pilots, I'd be interested out of what 350? attendees how many CV's they took between them.
Someone during the Q&A session asked about what BALPA made of foreign pilots coming into the UK market. I think the panel missed what was asked by and large however Maggie did have some pertinent points, namely:
We speak English, language of the air is English therefore it makes the industry here (with 27 EU countries and Commonwealth Citizens on ancestory visas) a big draw.
Airlines do have commercial pressures, I understand that, but bringing in Foreign contract pilots to take the strain in our busy periods surely stifles homegrown talent getting onto the ladder and makes the transition to LHS for UK pilots that little bit harder.
I can count a number of examples where other country CAA/Governments actively block hiring or put barriers in the way to make it tricky to hire non-nationals, obviously they have to be clever how they do this to avoid lawsuits but it does happen. I can't speak for him but I took what the questioner was asking was if a lot of other nations are doing this why are we not taking action to promote the talent already here and champing at the bit to get flying.
Sorry if that offends any Saffers, Canucks, Ozzies or Kiwi's.
Ultimately, half the airlines - you couldn't approach because of requirements, another 25% had a freeze on hiring for the time, the only ones that were doing anything where those who had the big snakey queues.
The outcome for me:
Confirmed by the president, UK market, despite growth is currently stagnant, jobs are out there but involves Asia, Far East.
Mergers of 4 into 2 and two takeovers has meant this summer has been all about consolodation and restructing (i.e. no hiring).
And for newbies out there, many CP's can't see by a integrated school which is dissapointing.
If I was starting again I'd aim for CTC, however I think the current format will change in the year ahead just due to commercial pressures.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Have to say that I found the JOC (my first) to be a very low key affair and a bit of a disappointment, particularly given what was billed beforehand and the £60 entrance fee.
Proceedings didn't get off to a particularly good start in my view - to be told in the welcoming presentation that a number of the airlines (Jet 2, EasyJet, XL and BACX) listed as attending had cancelled at the last minute and wouldn't therefore be appearing and that two (BA and FlyBe) had to leave early, rather set the tone for the rest of the day for me.
Emirates and BA's presentations were largely sales pitches for their respective companies and both started their presentations by admitting their that their pilot recruitment plans probably wouldn't apply to the vast majority of the audience, ie low-hour pilots.
Virgin Atlantics's presentation was delegated by their HR Manager to a young FO called Andy. He was pretty amusing, but nothing could disguise VA's key message which was "we're currently not recruiting...."
I did wonder why FlightSafety Farnborough were pitched as early as second in the list of presentations given that they were looking for experienced training staff and instructors, ie "with a flying career behind them" - probably not quite what the the majority of the audience were looking for.
The formal part of the day (ie the presentations) would have finished about an hour early had it not been for an impromtu discussion session hosted by the BALP reps before lunch. I thought this was the most useful part of the day and prompted a number of questions from the floor.
The informal session ('meet the airlines') was probably useful for some folks, but I came away thinking that anyone who had done their homework beforehand probably wouldn't have heard anything new.
The key messages from the day were as already mentioned, the main one being that due to carrier consolidation and and some fragmentation of operations (EasyJet bases in Madrid and Italy were cited as examples of this) 'pilot recruitment in the UK will be flat for the next 12 months or so'.
HW
Proceedings didn't get off to a particularly good start in my view - to be told in the welcoming presentation that a number of the airlines (Jet 2, EasyJet, XL and BACX) listed as attending had cancelled at the last minute and wouldn't therefore be appearing and that two (BA and FlyBe) had to leave early, rather set the tone for the rest of the day for me.
Emirates and BA's presentations were largely sales pitches for their respective companies and both started their presentations by admitting their that their pilot recruitment plans probably wouldn't apply to the vast majority of the audience, ie low-hour pilots.
Virgin Atlantics's presentation was delegated by their HR Manager to a young FO called Andy. He was pretty amusing, but nothing could disguise VA's key message which was "we're currently not recruiting...."
I did wonder why FlightSafety Farnborough were pitched as early as second in the list of presentations given that they were looking for experienced training staff and instructors, ie "with a flying career behind them" - probably not quite what the the majority of the audience were looking for.
The formal part of the day (ie the presentations) would have finished about an hour early had it not been for an impromtu discussion session hosted by the BALP reps before lunch. I thought this was the most useful part of the day and prompted a number of questions from the floor.
The informal session ('meet the airlines') was probably useful for some folks, but I came away thinking that anyone who had done their homework beforehand probably wouldn't have heard anything new.
The key messages from the day were as already mentioned, the main one being that due to carrier consolidation and and some fragmentation of operations (EasyJet bases in Madrid and Italy were cited as examples of this) 'pilot recruitment in the UK will be flat for the next 12 months or so'.
HW
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It was never suggested flyer was an exhibitor, I asked why they were there. I used to organise events from half the size of Saturday to Earl's Court/Olympia milarky, I can't see why any other organisation was required to help out.
It's a repeat event, second, the hardest bit from what I could see was the AV (handled by the hotel), organising comp hotel rooms for speakers and getting 20 powerpoint presentations in advance so they could be uploaded to one laptop - chasing people up for that can be a nightmare.
The cost was excessive and the amount/caliber of employers available for the majority of the audience was sadly lacking. Etihad, great to have you, I'm excited about 'dynamic and exciting' Abu Dhabi, but 4.5 years + time from now till first job before we can even get a sniff, no offence I'll target BA and Virgin well in advance of that caveat.
Do the maths, £60 x 300 (conservative) = £18,000 + 25 now shows £2,000 = £20k all in, notwithstanding BALPA membership subscriptions at 0 for those in current training to £2 a month from the unemployed or you can't even get a ticket.
It was suggested to me by a moderator no less that very little if anything would be made. I disagreed then and I do so again now even more adamently after attending.
Also the sales pitch from Oxford at the end should have been an opt in rather than manditory.
Dissapointed from the group meant to be looking out for us.
It's a repeat event, second, the hardest bit from what I could see was the AV (handled by the hotel), organising comp hotel rooms for speakers and getting 20 powerpoint presentations in advance so they could be uploaded to one laptop - chasing people up for that can be a nightmare.
The cost was excessive and the amount/caliber of employers available for the majority of the audience was sadly lacking. Etihad, great to have you, I'm excited about 'dynamic and exciting' Abu Dhabi, but 4.5 years + time from now till first job before we can even get a sniff, no offence I'll target BA and Virgin well in advance of that caveat.
Do the maths, £60 x 300 (conservative) = £18,000 + 25 now shows £2,000 = £20k all in, notwithstanding BALPA membership subscriptions at 0 for those in current training to £2 a month from the unemployed or you can't even get a ticket.
It was suggested to me by a moderator no less that very little if anything would be made. I disagreed then and I do so again now even more adamently after attending.
Also the sales pitch from Oxford at the end should have been an opt in rather than manditory.
Dissapointed from the group meant to be looking out for us.
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I've also previously been involved in organising these sorts of events, and a day-delegate rate of £60 is expensive, even for London.
The Oxford Aviation Training slot at the end of the formal session was originally billed as a 'seminar' - I was expecting a lot more in terms of input, hints and tips on airline selection processes and preparation for interview etc, rather than an overview of the OAT course which is what we got here.
HW
The Oxford Aviation Training slot at the end of the formal session was originally billed as a 'seminar' - I was expecting a lot more in terms of input, hints and tips on airline selection processes and preparation for interview etc, rather than an overview of the OAT course which is what we got here.
HW
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Oxford were not going to give any of their Secrets away!!!!!!! After all you can get lots of information regarding specific airline selection procedures elsewhere.
After talking to my sister, who is a event organiser with a very large and well known concert promoter, I tend to agree with the view that it was a tad expensive.
Still you live and learn
After talking to my sister, who is a event organiser with a very large and well known concert promoter, I tend to agree with the view that it was a tad expensive.
Still you live and learn
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For what it is worth, I am an instructor with 950 hours and I got a job out of the day. Start on the 19th of Nov. Hooooooooray and at bloody last! It was obviously worth the £60 for me and a nice motivator for what I can expect later in my career. Gives a good insight into the industry as well. Mind you, I do always tend to try and see the positives in things. Works for me!!
Good luck all!
Good luck all!
