Best university degree for job prospects? Air Transport Management?
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Best university degree for job prospects? Air Transport Management?
Hi, I have been asked by a friend what would be the best choice for a degree for job as a pilot in the future;
I know some people will say that there is no need for University (start early and get experience), however, knowing this, the decision to go has been made.
The two courses that he is choosing between are Business Management at Aston uni (currently due to start next month) or reapply for next year doing Air Transport Managment at Loughborough. Last years Loughborough graduates are mainly now at Oxford, some with "sponsorship".
Both courses are 4 year with a placement, the Loughborough one being in an airline or airport.
The reason for a degree is that he hopes to work in a management position, as well as flying in the future.
I never completed my uni before my training so I am just after other opinions.
Cheers
Chris
I know some people will say that there is no need for University (start early and get experience), however, knowing this, the decision to go has been made.
The two courses that he is choosing between are Business Management at Aston uni (currently due to start next month) or reapply for next year doing Air Transport Managment at Loughborough. Last years Loughborough graduates are mainly now at Oxford, some with "sponsorship".
Both courses are 4 year with a placement, the Loughborough one being in an airline or airport.
The reason for a degree is that he hopes to work in a management position, as well as flying in the future.
I never completed my uni before my training so I am just after other opinions.
Cheers
Chris
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Jock Lowe (ex-Concorde skipper) said Chemical Engineering was the best degree for a career as a pilot. Not sure why, maybe he was biased considering he did a degree and PhD in it!
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I'm going for an MD (MBChB degree in UK) then hopefully pilot!!! But I guess the closest to piloting is some type of engineering (aeronautical?) but depends on what you are really interested in doing should your pilot career not succeed!!
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Something that I learnt from going to uni was that it's essential you pick a degree subject that you'll enjoy. I chose a degree that I thought would have excellent job prospects (which it did), but I soon began to hate studying it and found that it wasn't for me in the slightest. I risked getting an awful classification in a good degree subject, which if you ask me is worth less than a good result in a slightly less respected subject. (Luckily I got a 2.1..... but it was tough getting there!)
I'd also say it's important not to put all your eggs in one basket. Your friend may come to hate aviation, or the industry might collapse, which would leave him/her with an excellent - but very vocational - qualification and no vocation! Plus, spending time studying a non-aviation-related subject can give a person the breadth that they wouldn't have gained otherwise.
And for what it's worth, I studied Law and French, have next to no flying experience, and was offered a 'tagged' place at FTE on the first scheme that I applied for. The point of me telling you this is not to brag (honest
), but rather to demonstrate that it's the person and the qualities that you possess that count and not necessarily the qualifications.
Obviously it's not as clear cut as I've suggested above, but I hope that I've used my example to make a few valid points.
I'd also say it's important not to put all your eggs in one basket. Your friend may come to hate aviation, or the industry might collapse, which would leave him/her with an excellent - but very vocational - qualification and no vocation! Plus, spending time studying a non-aviation-related subject can give a person the breadth that they wouldn't have gained otherwise.
And for what it's worth, I studied Law and French, have next to no flying experience, and was offered a 'tagged' place at FTE on the first scheme that I applied for. The point of me telling you this is not to brag (honest
), but rather to demonstrate that it's the person and the qualities that you possess that count and not necessarily the qualifications. Obviously it's not as clear cut as I've suggested above, but I hope that I've used my example to make a few valid points.
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I would echo what AJMcC said about qualifications not being so important - I am one of the oldest NetJets cadets at 29 and I had no flying experience and did not go to university.
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I have two degrees - neither of them remotely connected to aviation.
If you want to be a management pilot and aviation degree might help I suppose but I also reckon that when you become a professional pilot your company probably will assess people as fit for management roles based on their flying experience and their personal qualities....
If you want to be a management pilot and aviation degree might help I suppose but I also reckon that when you become a professional pilot your company probably will assess people as fit for management roles based on their flying experience and their personal qualities....
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well...
well, aeronautical engineering has absolutely no relevance to becoming a pilot. the aerodynamics is far more advanced than a pilot needs to know, and im sure a pilot doesnt want to know the copmosite layup of various components of his aircraft.
dont do aero eng. unless you want to work in the design/manufacture side of the aerospace industry...otherwise you will end up being an overqualified pilot! well, maybe not overqualified as im sure it all helps, but choose an easier degree, one which causes less stress and hair loss!
dont do aero eng. unless you want to work in the design/manufacture side of the aerospace industry...otherwise you will end up being an overqualified pilot! well, maybe not overqualified as im sure it all helps, but choose an easier degree, one which causes less stress and hair loss!
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How about BSc in Air Transport Studies and BSc in Air Transport Operations. The latter includes flying training upto fATPL. Both degrees offered by the City University London.
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Hi,
I'm at Loughborough Uni at the moment, I would say that a degree to be a pilot isn't necessary, however I think it becomes more of an issue if you don't become a pilot. The reason I'm doing my degree is to serve as a back up for the 'what if it doesn't happen scenario'. It is worth looking at the prospectus for the courses and checking out the modules that make up the semesters....although a degree may seem specific, there could be some quite broad topic areas which will be helpful in many situations.
I agree with AJMcC too - do something you are likely to enjoy rather than the status associated with some degrees, so research the content of the course and attend the open days, e-mail/ speak to the course directors.
Hope this has helped!
I'm at Loughborough Uni at the moment, I would say that a degree to be a pilot isn't necessary, however I think it becomes more of an issue if you don't become a pilot. The reason I'm doing my degree is to serve as a back up for the 'what if it doesn't happen scenario'. It is worth looking at the prospectus for the courses and checking out the modules that make up the semesters....although a degree may seem specific, there could be some quite broad topic areas which will be helpful in many situations.
I agree with AJMcC too - do something you are likely to enjoy rather than the status associated with some degrees, so research the content of the course and attend the open days, e-mail/ speak to the course directors.
Hope this has helped!
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For the flying itself, it doesn't matter.
There are 2 important considerations though.
1. What do you want to do if you don't get a job flying for whatever reason.
and
2. If (or when) the time comes when you realise that you don't want to be a pilot any more, what will serve you best?
The last scenario happens more often than you think. It would happen even more if people had something to fall back on. It will happen ever more in the future as salaries continue to fall, thus the "money trap" will be much less than it is for more senior people now. There are a lot of very pi*sed off, very disillusioned people flying aeroplanes around who are considering changing careers once having wised up to the reality of commercial flying. Good news for you wannabes of course (until it happens to you), it might create a few more jobs!
There are 2 important considerations though.
1. What do you want to do if you don't get a job flying for whatever reason.
and
2. If (or when) the time comes when you realise that you don't want to be a pilot any more, what will serve you best?
The last scenario happens more often than you think. It would happen even more if people had something to fall back on. It will happen ever more in the future as salaries continue to fall, thus the "money trap" will be much less than it is for more senior people now. There are a lot of very pi*sed off, very disillusioned people flying aeroplanes around who are considering changing careers once having wised up to the reality of commercial flying. Good news for you wannabes of course (until it happens to you), it might create a few more jobs!
Last edited by CamelhAir; 21st Aug 2007 at 23:29.
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Do a degree that will pay you the most money so you can get together the dosh for the training. Aeronautical this or engineering that will help you a bit but it ain't the be all and end all. The required knowledge for passing the ATPL's is far far below the standard of aero engineering. People I trained with that had those degrees got very annoyed with the fodder they had to learn for the ATPL's.
Me personally I did accountancy. Expect to earn £50-70k after 4-5 years assuming you got into a big firm and ticked the boxes along the way. If you are a super star and get out and into banking well then the world is your oyster and you can buy your own aircraft to fly around in. From my distant memory I think our graduates were on something like £25k to start with. Then it was something like 10k increments each year plus performance pay and bonuses if the firm is doing well etc etc. Working in a big city location will pay more. Smaller offices in smaller cities or towns expect to be paid a lot less. From what I have heard the sciences pay very poor for the number of hours required. Aren't interns on something ridiculous like 25-30k and doing incredible hours per week? Makes no sense to me given the amount of study.
Ah the world today. Its bonkers ain't it!
Me personally I did accountancy. Expect to earn £50-70k after 4-5 years assuming you got into a big firm and ticked the boxes along the way. If you are a super star and get out and into banking well then the world is your oyster and you can buy your own aircraft to fly around in. From my distant memory I think our graduates were on something like £25k to start with. Then it was something like 10k increments each year plus performance pay and bonuses if the firm is doing well etc etc. Working in a big city location will pay more. Smaller offices in smaller cities or towns expect to be paid a lot less. From what I have heard the sciences pay very poor for the number of hours required. Aren't interns on something ridiculous like 25-30k and doing incredible hours per week? Makes no sense to me given the amount of study.
Ah the world today. Its bonkers ain't it!
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I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea of a degree as a back up in case your aviation career doesn't work out.
It might be a good idea if you get something that involves a professional qualification but if you get a degree in physics aged 22 and then lose your medical in your mid 40s, I can't see what help that is going to be. Even business degrees etc. aren't going to be much use. You need to ask yourself what kind of jobs will be available for somebody with a degree but no commercial experience. You won't be of interest to the majority of large companies as they are looking for people who were born after you finished your course! Don't forget too that a degree isn't special anymore - a lot more people are going to college and university now and it is a competitive market.
I think the best skills to have are "hard" skills (hard as in tangible) which you keep current and can use on an ad hoc or consultative basis - e.g. electrical engineering, plumbing, dentistry....that way as soon as you finish flying you can make a living for yourself.
Anything "fluffy" like an arts subject or whatever isn't going to be useful...
It might be a good idea if you get something that involves a professional qualification but if you get a degree in physics aged 22 and then lose your medical in your mid 40s, I can't see what help that is going to be. Even business degrees etc. aren't going to be much use. You need to ask yourself what kind of jobs will be available for somebody with a degree but no commercial experience. You won't be of interest to the majority of large companies as they are looking for people who were born after you finished your course! Don't forget too that a degree isn't special anymore - a lot more people are going to college and university now and it is a competitive market.
I think the best skills to have are "hard" skills (hard as in tangible) which you keep current and can use on an ad hoc or consultative basis - e.g. electrical engineering, plumbing, dentistry....that way as soon as you finish flying you can make a living for yourself.
Anything "fluffy" like an arts subject or whatever isn't going to be useful...
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Why on earth would you study an Air Transport Management degree? If you want to go into air transport mamanagement, then get a job in air transport, learn the realitywhile getting paid and work your way up. If you want to be a pilot, choose whether to do a degree or not. If you want a degree choose something you enjoy and have fun at university getting your 2:2 (no-one will care about the class).
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An "amazing and stupid" comment from someone who has a 2:2 which has never affected him and who is in management, and involved in pilot recruitment but cannot imagine why anyone recruiting pilots would even ask the class of degree or care if he found out.
Remember we are talking about someone who wants to be a pilot, not someone after a PhD placement! Actually scrub that, I was offered a PhD placement with a 2:2. There are far more important factors than class of degree, or even having a degree at all in most jobs that a pilot wannabe is considering, even if he has to temporarily stray (as I did) from the direct path to the best view in the house.
Check the original post. The stated reason for the degree is to get into management, and as that is a long-term aim for a starting pilot then the class of degree is not going to matter once he gets there!
Personally I would suggest that neither of the options sounds interesting, and both being 4 years they will delay his career start and increase his debt, when all he really wants is a degree to tick a box. But each to his own. However unless the person in question has a really good plan for the year off then I would certainly not recommend he delays, and leaves it 5 years to even start training at what he actually wants to do as a career.
Remember we are talking about someone who wants to be a pilot, not someone after a PhD placement! Actually scrub that, I was offered a PhD placement with a 2:2. There are far more important factors than class of degree, or even having a degree at all in most jobs that a pilot wannabe is considering, even if he has to temporarily stray (as I did) from the direct path to the best view in the house.
Check the original post. The stated reason for the degree is to get into management, and as that is a long-term aim for a starting pilot then the class of degree is not going to matter once he gets there!
Personally I would suggest that neither of the options sounds interesting, and both being 4 years they will delay his career start and increase his debt, when all he really wants is a degree to tick a box. But each to his own. However unless the person in question has a really good plan for the year off then I would certainly not recommend he delays, and leaves it 5 years to even start training at what he actually wants to do as a career.
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IMHO it's just about making a difference with the airlines where all the applicants have atleast the minimum experience required.
Most major US carriers require a degree, why is that so?
Most major US carriers require a degree, why is that so?
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If you want to be successful as a pilot you don't need a degree. You need a licence and lots of hours on a useful type. You could probably get away with not being able to read or write if you've got 5,000 hours PIC on an A330 or something. You need to just get in the game and the sooner you're in the sooner it won't matter what kind of education you have.
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You could probably get away with not being able to read or write if you've got 5,000 hours PIC on an A330 or something.
