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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 8th Oct 2018, 06:10
  #4841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2
As a current L3 cadet, I can only echo Buden2's comments. I would currently not advise signing up for any course with L3, until they have solved the current delays, and created enough resources to carry out the training they promise. There are currently cadets being given delays of up to 6 months spread out between the CPL LST, IR training, AQC for whitetail, and for easyJet tagged ATPL students, and for partway through core phase and between core and basic phases for MPL students.

For some this includes a 3 month gap between CPL LST and IR training, leading to serious concerns about competency levels and the risk of not achieving a first series IR pass. Given that most here have chosen the integrated route for the speedier timeline, and the skill benefit of continuous full time training, despite the extra cost over a modular, many feel lied to and woefully let down by L3.

These delays are obviously also delaying the start of a career, and hence delaying the point at which cadets can start to earn an income to start paying back loans/mortgages, and in effect lopping months of earning potential off of the end of a future career. L3's current response is to offer £25 per week to delayed cadets to 'compensate' them for the delay.

While I appreciate the difficulty the loss of Phoenix, and the continued instructor shortage, has created, that should be a factor that L3 have to bear, rather than a cost to essentially be passed onto the cadets. All the while L3 are continuing to take on new cadets and only further the current problems, without having the decency to advise them of the delays that exist, or give any idea of how they are being resolved.


ps, L3 has various social media and internet policies that I'm very close to breaching, hence the new account for anonymity as I feel that L3 should not be able to continue ripping off future cadets by taking them on without any hope of fulfilling the promises/timelines they advertise. If anyone wants to contact me via PM I will be more than happy to give further details, and to prove who I am if they feel that is required to add weight to my post.

You canít use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.
TAYLA2 is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 21:00
  #4842 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
From the posts above it sounds like a pretty sad state of affairs all round. 3-6 month delays, limited airline links yet still 2x the cost of modular......

The 25/week refund is insulting more than anything else. We're talking about life-changing sums of money invested here, both for the cadets and often their families. In my opinion they are entitled to significant refunds if the course is not delivered as advertised. I would have hoped that L3 would be prepared to write off a bit of their profit to do the right thing but there you go.....

Has anyone been to an L3 open day recently? I'd be interested to hear their take on it. I believe trading standards would take a pretty dim view if they are continuing to advertise and sell courses based on timescales which they know they can't meet. That said, I'm sure the contracts cadets sign have plenty of get out clauses.
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2018, 09:07
  #4843 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by ManUtd1999 View Post
The 25/week refund is insulting more than anything else. We're talking about life-changing sums of money invested here, both for the cadets and often their families.
Yep, even before you consider the lost earning potential, the extra cost over a modular route, for what is turning into a poorer course is ridiculous.

And I wouldn't be surprised if things get worse before they get better. L3 are still taking on cadets, and the delays keep being handed out, so I have no idea how they ever think they'll catch up. The past few days they've handed out stand downs between foundation and advanced phases for some students (for those who haven't been through L3 training, foundation is the SEP VFR phase reaching a roughly PPL equivalent level, and advanced starts SEP IFR then the moves up to MEP IFR and VFR, leading to the CPL skills test), and those students have been told to expect further delays between CPL and IR training. Chatting to some of the instructors they seem to be thoroughly embarrassed, and shocked by the delays being handed out, and more and more seem to be looking for a way out.

I would have hoped that L3 would be prepared to write off a bit of their profit to do the right thing but there you go.....
This has given me a huge chuckle, one of very few recently!
TAYLA2 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 10:20
  #4844 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Toulouse
Posts: 14
Did they give any reasons for this delay ?
JayMatlock is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 10:58
  #4845 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 2
Iím currently in ground school at L3 and I was wondering if other schools are experiencing delays?

L3 keep telling us that the instructor shortage is an industry wide problem but surely other companies are not handling it as badly.

Here at Coventry we are running out of classroom space there are so many cadets. People being told they have to study at home during study weeks because there is nowhere for them. And with the newest CPs at max capacity I donít know what they are planning on doing when people need to be recoursed to them! Surely if a company is struggling to keep to timings they should not be taking on more and more cadets.
Flymetothemoon1 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 15:12
  #4846 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 1
Hi, at which location have they handed out stand downs? Which is the best location to be in?
anotherplanet is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 15:38
  #4847 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by anotherplanet View Post
Hi, at which location have they handed out stand downs? Which is the best location to be in?
As far as I'm aware it is equal across L3. We've heard of problems/delays coming from all of the flight training centres for one reason or another.
Flymetothemoon1 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 16:35
  #4848 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by Flymetothemoon1 View Post
Surely if a company is struggling to keep to timings they should not be taking on more and more cadets.
Exactly.

Delays due to a shortage of instructors/aircraft/facilities are disappointing and possibly a result of poor planning but can happen to any company. L3 are seemingly compounding the problem by continuing to sign new contracts (eg RAF) and not reducing the number of cadets starting each month.
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 19:09
  #4849 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 212
I'm just about old enough to remember when the topic of CTC was on here in 2006-2007. Back then the cost was about £60k (which you generally got back), type ratings were generally paid for by partner airlines (who were matched with students mid-training), there was a HSBC Professional Studies loan which was available for everyone. You could only ever apply once, if you failed you didn't get a second go and only about 2% of applicants (from all financial backgrounds) got in.. At the time, it really seemed like THE place to be, shame I was a few years too young.

Seems like things have changed a bit...
Chris the Robot is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2018, 21:45
  #4850 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by Chris the Robot View Post
I'm just about old enough to remember when the topic of CTC was on here in 2006-2007. Back then the cost was about £60k (which you generally got back), type ratings were generally paid for by partner airlines (who were matched with students mid-training), there was a HSBC Professional Studies loan which was available for everyone. You could only ever apply once, if you failed you didn't get a second go and only about 2% of applicants (from all financial backgrounds) got in.. At the time, it really seemed like THE place to be, shame I was a few years too young.

Seems like things have changed a bit...
I think it was when they traded their reputation for cash, by selling themselves. And then did it again, and the investors decided to maximise their return by opening the floodgates and turning it into the sausage factory.

It became a very successful money making machine, then L3 bought it. And tried to ramp it up even more. But it seems that the quality dropped as the quantity increased. And they've reached critical mass.
Their selling point was their placement record and industry reputation. As close to guaranteed airline job as you could get, that was worth paying for, in many peoples opinion. But without that, they are nothing but an overpriced flight school.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2018, 20:18
  #4851 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Watford
Posts: 2
MPL and ATPL

I'm currently in lower sixth, studying my A levels. I will soon be turning 17, and hence applying to a pilot school.

I'm looking at applying for to the generation EasyJet program at L3 academy. I understand that doing this program will give you an MPL with EasyJet. However what I don't understand is what happens next, once you have achieved you MPL and are working for EasyJet, how long do you have for them for? Also, how do you go about converting you MPL to an ATPL, so you can work for other airlines?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sebster1238 is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2018, 16:58
  #4852 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Echo Golf Papa Foxtrot
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by Sebster1238 View Post
I'm currently in lower sixth, studying my A levels. I will soon be turning 17, and hence applying to a pilot school.

I'm looking at applying for to the generation EasyJet program at L3 academy. I understand that doing this program will give you an MPL with EasyJet. However what I don't understand is what happens next, once you have achieved you MPL and are working for EasyJet, how long do you have for them for? Also, how do you go about converting you MPL to an ATPL, so you can work for other airlines?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi,

The program has the possibility of giving you an MPL or a frozen ATPL depending on many factors with selection. You'll know which license you'll hopefully be aiming to achieve whether your assigned route 1 (MPL) or route 2 (frozen ATPL) after passing selection (and competition).

Also, to answer your conversion question, L3 states:
"Holders of an MPL may apply for an ATPL upon meeting regulatory requirements as your easyJet career progresses.".

That regulatory requirement I believe is met once 1500 hours of flight time is achieved.
EGPF is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2018, 17:12
  #4853 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 10
Hiya guys

Anyone starting in Coventry on 29/01/19? feel free to pm me!
Harveyhickss is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2018, 19:01
  #4854 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4
Anyone starting CP205/EZMP35 in Coventry on the 4th December?
tpflyer is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 06:59
  #4855 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by tpflyer View Post
Anyone starting CP205/EZMP35 in Coventry on the 4th December?
(Long time lurker, first time poster)

Not answering your question here but is EZMP35 related to the EasyJet MPL intake? If yes, mind me asking whether you were part of the recent assessment process (the one which opened Aug/Sep) or an earlier one?
pmct is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2018, 21:31
  #4856 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by tpflyer View Post
Anyone starting CP205/EZMP35 in Coventry on the 4th December?
Hey, yeah Iím starting on the 4th as part of CP205, feel free to PM me

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KSINGH is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 23:40
  #4857 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by pmct View Post


(Long time lurker, first time poster)

Not answering your question here but is EZMP35 related to the EasyJet MPL intake? If yes, mind me asking whether you were part of the recent assessment process (the one which opened Aug/Sep) or an earlier one?
​​​​​​Hi pmct,
I believe I was part of the previous intake. Applied around April time and got accepted onto route 1 in late May. Think we were the last interview group of the 2017 programme. Best of luck if you're waiting to hear back!
tpflyer is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2018, 08:42
  #4858 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 4
No visible end to delays, further delays for cadets in New Zealand and BOH, as well as groundschool cadets across the board. Many delays as long as 6 months, with the potential for further delays. L3's current line of excuses sound very familiar, not enough instructors and PFA didn't take as many cadets as initially agreed. The bottle neck is at the IR phase, BOH is full of RAF and PFA can't take enough; although they claim to be searching for more places to outsource training. So yes, this mainly impacts whitetail cadets, airline tagged cadets won't suffer quite as bad- they tend to get a push through the system.

Think very carefully before choosing this ATO... You could be there quite some time.
basilbrush12 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2018, 19:18
  #4859 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by basilbrush12 View Post
No visible end to delays, further delays for cadets in New Zealand and BOH, as well as groundschool cadets across the board. Many delays as long as 6 months, with the potential for further delays. L3's current line of excuses sound very familiar, not enough instructors and PFA didn't take as many cadets as initially agreed. The bottle neck is at the IR phase, BOH is full of RAF and PFA can't take enough; although they claim to be searching for more places to outsource training. So yes, this mainly impacts whitetail cadets, airline tagged cadets won't suffer quite as bad- they tend to get a push through the system.

Think very carefully before choosing this ATO... You could be there quite some time.
I was just wondering where you got this information? Are you a cadet at L3? Quite curious as I'm supposed to be starting in around 6 weeks time and would like to know what I'm in for....
Harveyhickss is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2018, 19:51
  #4860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Harveyhickss View Post
I was just wondering where you got this information? Are you a cadet at L3? Quite curious as I'm supposed to be starting in around 6 weeks time and would like to know what I'm in for....
harveyhickss I am a cadet at L3

News spreads quite fast around most cadets. Most would give a similar story.
basilbrush12 is offline  

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