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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 21st Nov 2015, 15:35
  #4601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 14
Is it possible to start the white tail route, and then be sponsored/picked up by an airline before completion?
JaimieP is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2015, 17:56
  #4602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 22
The only one that I am aware of is the BA FPP when they require more cadets. Some were taken out before and after they finished the white tail route.
Shawrey is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2015, 17:16
  #4603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Netherlands/UK
Posts: 24
I have read some conflicting material regarding the components that make up the aptitude tests at CTC. Some articles include mechanical reasoning whereas others exclude it.

If anyone could clarify this it would be very much appreciated!
MattC123 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2015, 21:24
  #4604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 5
CTC wing assessment

Hi
I am new to this forum
I am in the same situation like you... unable to know were to focus and change my approach.
I could not clear interview and group discussion at my previous attempt...and asked to come back 6 months later.
If any one can help ... it will be nice ...
Ro007 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2015, 16:54
  #4605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: England
Age: 33
Posts: 10
Hi, my mate went to pilotprep.co.uk and he cruised through his CTC assessments. Said it was defo worth it. You could try asking them for more info if it's not too late.
AQVILA is offline  
Old 23rd Dec 2015, 21:45
  #4606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 19
for pilot aptitude test prep for CTC use skytest...it costs, yes, but they are exactly the same tests CTC use. Otherwise just practice with any program you can get your hands on, if you can get skytest, I don't think there's anything more relative for CTC. I recommend doing the progressive lessons in it (can't remember what it is actually called, progression something...)
devvo is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2016, 11:51
  #4607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 1
Hi! First time poster

Does anyone know if the CTC MPL for Virgin Atlantic is just another name for the latter's "Future Flyers Programme"? Does anybody have any information about the recruitment process for this prgramme (i.e. interviews, group exercises, presentations, aptitude tests etc.)? Any information would be extremely helpful!

X
asmashingpumpkin is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2016, 07:07
  #4608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
All the info you need for the selection has been repeated a few times on PPRuNe. It's either in this thread, or in the Virgin thread in the Wannabees forum, currently on the the first page. It's CTC who assess you at stage 2 and 3 so maybe read their preparation guide too. Sorry I can't give much more than than.
gbotley is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2016, 14:04
  #4609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
@DelayReducer, Not necessarily, keep your hopes high and the airlines can be known to fund it for you. BA's FPP is one of those. Virgin did mention it in their first in-take but I'm not so certain if they are this time around so do not want to speculate.

P.S. By fund I mean secure your bond for you.
gbotley is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2016, 16:27
  #4610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: .
Age: 25
Posts: 24
Talking CTC Whitetail route bank loan?

Hi everyone, is there anybody here who has taken a bank loan to complete their studies with CTC?

If you have, I am wondering if you can answer a couple of questions for me please...

1. After finishing training, how are you finding paying off the loan on a FO wage?
2. Would you recommend taking out a loan if you do not have the funds yourself to enrol on this course?

I understand many people on here are very much against taking out a loan with BBVA, however it would be interesting to see what current FO's who ahve fulfilled this process have to say.

As for me, I'm currently and Aircraft Engineering with Pilot studies student and doing 1 hour of flying per week. With one year left at university, I'm trying to sum up my options whether to go modular or integrated (with bank loan).

Many thanks in advance!

PFS
pilotfromsheff13 is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2016, 17:13
  #4611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by pilotfromsheff13 View Post
Hi everyone, is there anybody here who has taken a bank loan to complete their studies with CTC?

If you have, I am wondering if you can answer a couple of questions for me please...

1. After finishing training, how are you finding paying off the loan on a FO wage?
2. Would you recommend taking out a loan if you do not have the funds yourself to enrol on this course?

I understand many people on here are very much against taking out a loan with BBVA, however it would be interesting to see what current FO's who ahve fulfilled this process have to say.

As for me, I'm currently and Aircraft Engineering with Pilot studies student and doing 1 hour of flying per week. With one year left at university, I'm trying to sum up my options whether to go modular or integrated (with bank loan).

Many thanks in advance!

PFS
After all pension/tax/NI deductibles, all essential monthly outgoings (rent/food/bills/fuel/insurances) and a few hundred a month into savings for the house deposit, I don't have all that much left to actually have a life. Certainly nowhere near enough to pay back 1500 a month on 130Ks of loan.


If I had to start training now... quite simply, I wouldn't.
Not with how much it costs, not with the employment/contract conditions.



Just like when flying, you have to consider "what if...?" when looking at paying for training.


What if I can't get a RHS job for 1-2 years? - its not uncommon, even at CTC/FTE/OAA

What if one of my parents loses their job? - Or ends up losing a big chunk of income or of their pension pot. Unless you've got significant savings to live off, you'll probably be relying on parents to support you throughout training and in the first couple of years on the line

What if I stuff up in line training (without a guaranteed job)? - if you're a non-employed pilot and on contract or placement to the airline (as I believe are most cadets until their line check) then if you need additional training, or you screw up your line check, the airline may just tell you to pack your bags, there are always plenty more fish in the infamous hold pool

What if the house value drops significantly? - leaving your parents in negative equity, and unable to move house until enough of the loan/mortgage is repaid or the house goes back up in value

What if I can't afford to make the repayments? - Defaulting on the loan could be long-term disaster. It'll hammer your credit rating for a long time, and that of any guarantors (i.e. parents), plus if you can't make the repayments they can repossess the home

What if I lose my medical? - it happens, I know 6 people in their early to mid 20s who lost their Class 1 indefinitely. Only one has got it back so far, LOTE insurance paid out for one other when the CAA said there was no chance. The other 4 are in limbo, they are recovered and the CAA will eventually assess them as fit once they satisfy all requirements, but no insurance payout as it's not permanent, and no hope of a job anytime soon as they're only part-trained, but with loan repayments looming (one of these people clocked up over 24k in regular private consultants fees and all sorts of regular cardiovascular and neurological medical tests... he is "socially healthy", so NHS said it's not necessary for him to get work and won't cover any of it, so had to go private for it all instead.




I don't mean to scare you off, but it appears far too many people do not seem to have a full appreciation of the implications.

They have access to 130k, either through their parents, or secured on their parents house, without actually calculating whether they can afford to pay it back or not.

It's irresponsible on their part, their parents part, and the banks part.



Oh and don't believe that you'll ever get ANY of your training costs back from the airline. YOU WON'T!
CTC is like any other integrated training school when it comes to money... you pay them the money (they call it a security or training bond), and you get the training.
At best, if you get placed with a CTC partner airline, you'll have a salary that is reduced by exactly the amount of "training bond" they're paying back to you, e.g. they'll give you 12k a year tax free that isn't part of your salary, and you'll just so happen to have a salary that is 12k less than a direct entry pilot.




So my advice... don't go for the loan unless you absolutely have to. And only do so if you can afford to pay it back if things don't go to plan.

A better option might be, if the circumstances allow, for your parents to remortgage their house (which is what the BBVA loan is anyway) and consolidate all the mortgage into one payment (rather than the mortgage payment PLUS the BBVA payment) and that way the payment would probably be more manageable.

But I would not want to put my parents in the position of paying off my loan because I couldn't get a job, whether through a mortgage or a loan.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 11:37
  #4612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
@DelayReducer,

In the same boat sadly. One can still dream eh! Nevertheless, passed Virgin MPL stages to date this time, waiting on a final shortlist call for The Base, Gatwick. Fingers crossed. Even so, i'm going in blind with no idea what to expect at the final interview, if called.

Still, at 22, i've many more years of attempts before my time on earth ends eh!
gbotley is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 12:25
  #4613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Worcester
Posts: 6
Just out of interest, I've been selected to go to Dibden Manor on the 23rd Feb for an assessment.


Anyone else got through for this date?
JonH690 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 14:29
  #4614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North West
Posts: 24
In the same boat sadly. One can still dream eh! Nevertheless, passed Virgin MPL stages to date this time, waiting on a final shortlist call for The Base, Gatwick. Fingers crossed. Even so, i'm going in blind with no idea what to expect at the final interview, if called.

Still, at 22, i've many more years of attempts before my time on earth ends eh!
The impression I got from stage 2 at Dibden about the virgin interview was that you either 'fit into' virgin or you don't.
tfin25 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 17:10
  #4615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by tfin25 View Post
The impression I got from stage 2 at Dibden about the virgin interview was that you either 'fit into' virgin or you don't.
That's very much the same as me. Virgin only tends to take a very specific type of character but fingers crossed for everyone!

P.s. tfin, you got any news yet? You through too?

Last edited by gbotley; 21st Jan 2016 at 17:23.
gbotley is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 17:27
  #4616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North West
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by gbotley View Post
That's very much the same as me. Virgin only tends to take a very specific type of character but fingers crossed for everyone!

P.s. tfin, you got any news yet? You through too?
Yeah exactly.

It was a no for me . I wasn't suprised really, it was my first time doing any sort of airline assesment day. I've since decided that the virgin scheme wouldn't be for me anyway so no love lost!
tfin25 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2016, 22:18
  #4617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 14
Hi all Newbie here,

I have read with interest almost all posts in this thread in order to gain an understanding as to whether CTC white tail is a viable option for myself. I won't go into details as I very much aware it may be right for some but may not be for others.

A couple of things I did want to add -

Newbies asking for information - you could do a lot worse than read back in this thread all the information is on here for everyone to see. Thank you all that have taken the time to share your experiences. It was nice to have a slight idea what to expect when I went through the selection process, I won't bore you all with it again.

Secondly I take particular interest in @LlamaFarmer's post re: loan repayments in the current climate. This is my main concern at the moment, it would be great to hear how others are coping as I can certainly see it being a struggle to say the least, when you take into account current contracts being offered by airlines to frozen ATPL pilots.

I know wages etc are a taboo subject but it's great to have an open debate about earnings v loan repayments so people can make an educated decision, however hard this may seem when one is trying to follow their dream!

Anyhoo thanks for all the information guys

Tubeflyer.
Tubeflyer is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2016, 09:25
  #4618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: N.O.Y.B.
Posts: 545
After all pension/tax/NI deductibles, all essential monthly outgoings (rent/food/bills/fuel/insurances) and a few hundred a month into savings for the house deposit, I don't have all that much left to actually have a life. Certainly nowhere near enough to pay back 1500 a month on 130Ks of loan.


If I had to start training now... quite simply, I wouldn't.
Not with how much it costs, not with the employment/contract conditions.



Just like when flying, you have to consider "what if...?" when looking at paying for training.


What if I can't get a RHS job for 1-2 years? - its not uncommon, even at CTC/FTE/OAA

What if one of my parents loses their job? - Or ends up losing a big chunk of income or of their pension pot. Unless you've got significant savings to live off, you'll probably be relying on parents to support you throughout training and in the first couple of years on the line

What if I stuff up in line training (without a guaranteed job)? - if you're a non-employed pilot and on contract or placement to the airline (as I believe are most cadets until their line check) then if you need additional training, or you screw up your line check, the airline may just tell you to pack your bags, there are always plenty more fish in the infamous hold pool

What if the house value drops significantly? - leaving your parents in negative equity, and unable to move house until enough of the loan/mortgage is repaid or the house goes back up in value

What if I can't afford to make the repayments? - Defaulting on the loan could be long-term disaster. It'll hammer your credit rating for a long time, and that of any guarantors (i.e. parents), plus if you can't make the repayments they can repossess the home

What if I lose my medical? - it happens, I know 6 people in their early to mid 20s who lost their Class 1 indefinitely. Only one has got it back so far, LOTE insurance paid out for one other when the CAA said there was no chance. The other 4 are in limbo, they are recovered and the CAA will eventually assess them as fit once they satisfy all requirements, but no insurance payout as it's not permanent, and no hope of a job anytime soon as they're only part-trained, but with loan repayments looming (one of these people clocked up over 24k in regular private consultants fees and all sorts of regular cardiovascular and neurological medical tests... he is "socially healthy", so NHS said it's not necessary for him to get work and won't cover any of it, so had to go private for it all instead.




I don't mean to scare you off, but it appears far too many people do not seem to have a full appreciation of the implications.

They have access to 130k, either through their parents, or secured on their parents house, without actually calculating whether they can afford to pay it back or not.

It's irresponsible on their part, their parents part, and the banks part.



Oh and don't believe that you'll ever get ANY of your training costs back from the airline. YOU WON'T!
CTC is like any other integrated training school when it comes to money... you pay them the money (they call it a security or training bond), and you get the training.
At best, if you get placed with a CTC partner airline, you'll have a salary that is reduced by exactly the amount of "training bond" they're paying back to you, e.g. they'll give you 12k a year tax free that isn't part of your salary, and you'll just so happen to have a salary that is 12k less than a direct entry pilot.




So my advice... don't go for the loan unless you absolutely have to. And only do so if you can afford to pay it back if things don't go to plan.

A better option might be, if the circumstances allow, for your parents to remortgage their house (which is what the BBVA loan is anyway) and consolidate all the mortgage into one payment (rather than the mortgage payment PLUS the BBVA payment) and that way the payment would probably be more manageable.

But I would not want to put my parents in the position of paying off my loan because I couldn't get a job, whether through a mortgage or a loan.
Absolutely nailed it on the head Llamafarmer!
EZY_FR is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2016, 13:24
  #4619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: .
Age: 25
Posts: 24
Llamafarmer - Many thanks for your reply - I've found this very helpful, as I'm sure many others will reading this forum.

Does anybody else have any experience with bank loan?

Many thanks

PFS
pilotfromsheff13 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2016, 13:34
  #4620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 64
I agree - some numbers would be great.

Specifically (if you will) the salary in the first year or so (when I imagine money is tightest). CTC say that they will pay you a 'tax free sustenance allowance' for your type rating training, can anyone put a number on this?

Thanks all.

FP.
foliot-pilot is offline  

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