Americans flying for SAS or Swiss?
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Americans flying for SAS or Swiss?
Hello all! Brand new here but have browsed from time to time.
After a recent holiday to Stockholm this past summer, myself and a friend would LOVE to pursue our flying careers over in Europe. We absolutely fell in love with Sweden (MY GOD your women are BEAUTIFUL), and figure why not TRY to pursue careers over in Europe.
A couple of questions for you all. We understand it is VERY VERY VERY difficult to convert our FAA ATPs over to the JAA equivelent. Is anyone aware of any waivers or sponsorship programs for ANY Nordic Carriers? What about SWISS? I know Swiss is not in the Nordic area but I have read if I am not mistaken that they have a program like that. Am I wrong?
A background of our experience. Both of us are 24. With 2400 and 1700 hours respectively, with FAA ATP certificates with BE-1900 type ratings. 700 and 100 hours of Turbine FAA Part 121 PIC. Over 1000 hours of crew time as well.
Thank you for your help!
After a recent holiday to Stockholm this past summer, myself and a friend would LOVE to pursue our flying careers over in Europe. We absolutely fell in love with Sweden (MY GOD your women are BEAUTIFUL), and figure why not TRY to pursue careers over in Europe.
A couple of questions for you all. We understand it is VERY VERY VERY difficult to convert our FAA ATPs over to the JAA equivelent. Is anyone aware of any waivers or sponsorship programs for ANY Nordic Carriers? What about SWISS? I know Swiss is not in the Nordic area but I have read if I am not mistaken that they have a program like that. Am I wrong?
A background of our experience. Both of us are 24. With 2400 and 1700 hours respectively, with FAA ATP certificates with BE-1900 type ratings. 700 and 100 hours of Turbine FAA Part 121 PIC. Over 1000 hours of crew time as well.
Thank you for your help!
Seggy:
Pprune might not be your best bet on how to apply for a flying job in Europe.
You will be most fortunate to attract any responses except for "cold comfort" and possible disinformation.
These types of requests for info in the past, other that sent to you via Pprune's personal e-mail, have incited serious trans-Atlantic debates which often lack any tactful choices of words.
The US government etc seems to have been less than open to foreign pilots wanting to work over here, even before 9/11, who were not somehow sponsored (as some Scandinavian guys several years ago at Pinnacle Airlines/NW Airlink told me-Pinnacle had pilots from quite a number of countries), or married to a local.
One of our pilots has a wife with documentation for a grandfather who came over from Italy. He could have worked in Europe, in theory
, but the JAR ratings conversions etc would have required major work and expenses, and he might not have been welcome even after all of that.
Pprune might not be your best bet on how to apply for a flying job in Europe.
You will be most fortunate to attract any responses except for "cold comfort" and possible disinformation.
These types of requests for info in the past, other that sent to you via Pprune's personal e-mail, have incited serious trans-Atlantic debates which often lack any tactful choices of words.
The US government etc seems to have been less than open to foreign pilots wanting to work over here, even before 9/11, who were not somehow sponsored (as some Scandinavian guys several years ago at Pinnacle Airlines/NW Airlink told me-Pinnacle had pilots from quite a number of countries), or married to a local.
One of our pilots has a wife with documentation for a grandfather who came over from Italy. He could have worked in Europe, in theory
, but the JAR ratings conversions etc would have required major work and expenses, and he might not have been welcome even after all of that.
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Scandinavian CAA's can issue a validation for your FAA license for at least a year and during that time expect you to write all exams. Not impossible, lot of pilots did that.To get a job as a pilot maybe a bigger problem. SAS and SWISS pilot unions may never accept you. Very few companies hiring there. Good luck.
The licence is just a matter of throwing money at various aviation authorities and training organisations.
I think the real problem would be residency or work permits. You might have to marry someone for those.
I think the real problem would be residency or work permits. You might have to marry someone for those.
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disinformation
Originally Posted by Hot Rod
SAS has not hired any pilots för many many years.
A lot of their pilots has lost their jobs and now it looks that another 100 pilots has to go...
A lot of their pilots has lost their jobs and now it looks that another 100 pilots has to go...
New term has been signed by SAS and their crew lately. No signs for pilot cut.
I agreed with Lord Lucan that the problem would be residency or work permits.
And as the qualification for FO's, SAS demands more than 2500 hour TT, 737TR, MD TR, jet time... etc.
So, work hardere and try later.
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Could be hard to find a seat at SWISS as well... the airline is somehow looking for pilots, but is contacting 1) the ones who had to leave within the last about 5 years and 2) all the in-house school-finishers...
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Swiss air will ask you to speak swiss german...
I can tell you, with your experience, and no Swiss "green card" you have no chance in Switzerland.The company is not in a very good shape.
The best for you, stay in USA and have a good life...this is what I would do if I was a US citizen.
(and spend 30-40'000$ in a JAA conversion, would not be very smart if no guaranty of employment.)
I can tell you, with your experience, and no Swiss "green card" you have no chance in Switzerland.The company is not in a very good shape.
The best for you, stay in USA and have a good life...this is what I would do if I was a US citizen.
(and spend 30-40'000$ in a JAA conversion, would not be very smart if no guaranty of employment.)
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Thank you ALL for the very imformative responses!
I guess FlyMe would also be out of the question as well.
I forgot to mention in my post that I have family in Scotland so I would hope that would be my way in with residency and citizenship within Europe. If I could get residency and the proper work permits through my connections in Scotland, would that enable me to work throughout Europe?
Lord Lucan, would I just need to pay a 'fee' to the orginizations to convert my certificates or would I need to go through a converstion type of training program?
The states are great but I absolutely LOVE Europe. I have been all over and have had nothing but GREAT experiences.
Thanks again for all your help!
I guess FlyMe would also be out of the question as well.
I forgot to mention in my post that I have family in Scotland so I would hope that would be my way in with residency and citizenship within Europe. If I could get residency and the proper work permits through my connections in Scotland, would that enable me to work throughout Europe?
Lord Lucan, would I just need to pay a 'fee' to the orginizations to convert my certificates or would I need to go through a converstion type of training program?
The states are great but I absolutely LOVE Europe. I have been all over and have had nothing but GREAT experiences.
Thanks again for all your help!
You need to present your log books, licences etc to the authority and they will tell you what you have to do. This will almost certainly involve doing the JAA written exams and probably doing a flight test/instrument rating as well.
The wannabe forum will have people more up to date with the current requirements.
Yes, if you have a EU nation passport you can live and work anywhere in EU. If tou have a JAA licence you can fly anywhere too, though some countries may still require local validations. So, if English is your native language you might be better doing a UK JAA ATPL.
As to residency, it depends on just how close your Scottish relatives are.
hope this helps
The wannabe forum will have people more up to date with the current requirements.
Yes, if you have a EU nation passport you can live and work anywhere in EU. If tou have a JAA licence you can fly anywhere too, though some countries may still require local validations. So, if English is your native language you might be better doing a UK JAA ATPL.
As to residency, it depends on just how close your Scottish relatives are.
hope this helps
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This thread will give you information about converting an FAA license toa JAA licence. It is expensive and involves a good deal of hard work, but it's achievable. You may have residency and working rights in UK (and thus the EU), but you must contact the British Embassy in DC to get comprehensive and accurate information about this. Their website may have some of that information available.
The airline recruiting market in mainland Europe is not particularly healthy. Deregulation has been far slower in this area than it has in UK, and that is reflected in lack of airline startups and profits. The newly-integrated Eastern European countries have fairly active airline industries, but pay and conditions are, as yet, way behind the rest of Europe.
Look and compare very carefully the airline industry in the USA and the EU. I think you'll find there are few advantages to moving over here, unless there are family or other non-aviation-related reasons for doing so.
Scroggs
The airline recruiting market in mainland Europe is not particularly healthy. Deregulation has been far slower in this area than it has in UK, and that is reflected in lack of airline startups and profits. The newly-integrated Eastern European countries have fairly active airline industries, but pay and conditions are, as yet, way behind the rest of Europe.
Look and compare very carefully the airline industry in the USA and the EU. I think you'll find there are few advantages to moving over here, unless there are family or other non-aviation-related reasons for doing so.
Scroggs
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From www.sasflightops.com:
Stockholm, 2006
Due to the current situation in SAS a stop of pilot employment has been decided. Pilot applications are at this moment not accepted and the assessment process has been stopped. For those already registered the initial aviation psychological assessment will be postponed.
For any further information, please contact us through: [email protected]
Due to the current situation in SAS a stop of pilot employment has been decided. Pilot applications are at this moment not accepted and the assessment process has been stopped. For those already registered the initial aviation psychological assessment will be postponed.
For any further information, please contact us through: [email protected]
Trained / Experienced pilots
The requirements for an application to be registered were as follows and will be updated when needed:
Minimum 700 hours total flight time, of which minimum 200 hours must be on 2-engine aircraft.
Minimum 100 hours of total flight time as pilot-in-command.
Education on Artium/Senior High School level (12years) or equivalent with 2 years education in mathematics and physics/natural sciences,
Danish: "studentereksamen" or "HF"
Norwegian: "allmennfaglig videregående" with minimum 2 MY and 2FY
Swedish: 3-year "gymnasium" with "Matematik C, Fysik A"
EU or Norwegian citizenship
Maximum age at time of employment is 40 years, minimum is 22 years
Maximum height is 195 cm and minimum is 163 cm.
Language Requirements
SAS has decided to remove the Scandinavian language requirement at the time of application.
Applications from pilots not fluent in a Scandinavian language will be registered as long as all other formal requirements are met, including EU citizenship and JAR license. Priority will be given to pilots with min. 3000 hours total flight time.
If accepted, a language program in Danish, Norwegian or Swedish would have to be completed (on SAS account).
For registration, military pilots are accepted without civilian licenses as well as pilots with a non-Scandinavian license.
JAR or Scandinavian licenses are required before employment can be considered.
The flight time requirement is waived for pilots trained in the armed force.
Latest update: 27-Feb-2006
The requirements for an application to be registered were as follows and will be updated when needed:
Minimum 700 hours total flight time, of which minimum 200 hours must be on 2-engine aircraft.
Minimum 100 hours of total flight time as pilot-in-command.
Education on Artium/Senior High School level (12years) or equivalent with 2 years education in mathematics and physics/natural sciences,
Danish: "studentereksamen" or "HF"
Norwegian: "allmennfaglig videregående" with minimum 2 MY and 2FY
Swedish: 3-year "gymnasium" with "Matematik C, Fysik A"
EU or Norwegian citizenship
Maximum age at time of employment is 40 years, minimum is 22 years
Maximum height is 195 cm and minimum is 163 cm.
Language Requirements
SAS has decided to remove the Scandinavian language requirement at the time of application.
Applications from pilots not fluent in a Scandinavian language will be registered as long as all other formal requirements are met, including EU citizenship and JAR license. Priority will be given to pilots with min. 3000 hours total flight time.
If accepted, a language program in Danish, Norwegian or Swedish would have to be completed (on SAS account).
For registration, military pilots are accepted without civilian licenses as well as pilots with a non-Scandinavian license.
JAR or Scandinavian licenses are required before employment can be considered.
The flight time requirement is waived for pilots trained in the armed force.
Latest update: 27-Feb-2006
