New Sponsorship (ish) scheme OAT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think in all of it most students who would take a loan to go to Oxford would still have to pay from their net salary - albeit over 11 years rather than 7. Apologies for my earlier rant over the expression of views, I did get rather carried away, probably because I myself, am not looking to do any form of pilot training for some years yet and am happy with my 'job' to bring in my income (you can't really call music a job!) and pay for my mortgage, bills, food etc.
It just would seem like a viable option for those who maybe want to get the loan repayed quicker (albeit on a cut down salary) who would then (over 7 years) have plenty of experience to move as a DEP to another airline and start on a much better salary consumerate with experience.
It just would seem like a viable option for those who maybe want to get the loan repayed quicker (albeit on a cut down salary) who would then (over 7 years) have plenty of experience to move as a DEP to another airline and start on a much better salary consumerate with experience.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A place where something is or could be located; a site.
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hurrah!!
I think we have agreed. Well kind of.
I don't agree with the price comparison between Mod vs Int'd. You have to compare like for like, any extra costs you add to one, you need to add to the other to be fair. Especially when you consider that Integrated offers you far less hours to reach the same standard. You're more likely to need more hours.
Even if it is 25k difference, that is not the key factor. Its about level of debt owed to Mr HSBC when you get the little blue book. I'll owe (hopefully) less than 25k. You will owe 60k (at least). Plus a LOT more interest. AND I'm on full pay with house already bought.
The point I think we agree on is that, with this scheme, you get a very good chance of a job. But for this, you pay a lot of money. I don't want to get into the age old arguement of how much mod vs integrated costs. But it is a LOT.
You think it's worth it. I most certainly don't. As you get older (I'm only 27!!) you realise that, yes I still want to be a pilot more than anything else. And I am even more determined than ever. But there are also other things in life that are equally important. What do you do want once you are a TCX FO? Do you want a house? Do you want a holiday? Do you want a reliable car? I know that this is freaky, but if you want children (and I don't), most people want them by their early 30's. You will have only just paid off your loan and have none of the above (although I have no idea how old you actually are).
Your life will be one financial restriction for the next decade (don't start TCX untill 2008 plus 7 years goes all the way to 2015!).
All this to fly an obsolete aircraft to Palma.
Nope. It's an opinion. Based on fact. Subtle difference, but fundamentally different. You are the only one making inaccurate posts.
EK
I think we have agreed. Well kind of.
I don't agree with the price comparison between Mod vs Int'd. You have to compare like for like, any extra costs you add to one, you need to add to the other to be fair. Especially when you consider that Integrated offers you far less hours to reach the same standard. You're more likely to need more hours.
Even if it is 25k difference, that is not the key factor. Its about level of debt owed to Mr HSBC when you get the little blue book. I'll owe (hopefully) less than 25k. You will owe 60k (at least). Plus a LOT more interest. AND I'm on full pay with house already bought.
The point I think we agree on is that, with this scheme, you get a very good chance of a job. But for this, you pay a lot of money. I don't want to get into the age old arguement of how much mod vs integrated costs. But it is a LOT.
You think it's worth it. I most certainly don't. As you get older (I'm only 27!!) you realise that, yes I still want to be a pilot more than anything else. And I am even more determined than ever. But there are also other things in life that are equally important. What do you do want once you are a TCX FO? Do you want a house? Do you want a holiday? Do you want a reliable car? I know that this is freaky, but if you want children (and I don't), most people want them by their early 30's. You will have only just paid off your loan and have none of the above (although I have no idea how old you actually are).
Your life will be one financial restriction for the next decade (don't start TCX untill 2008 plus 7 years goes all the way to 2015!).
All this to fly an obsolete aircraft to Palma.
Saying things like "This is marketing spin" is an assumption.
EK
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
X3k5
Where on earth have you got the idea that you are harming your chances of airline employment by either not going for this scheme or going modular? The whole point of the counter-argument here is that this scheme is hellishly expensive, and arguably not worth the financial risk in the current rosy employment situation. This is simply a re-hash of the deal TCA have with CTC, only on closer inspection it appears as though it may actually work out even more expensive for the cadet ie - the living expenses. If anyone goes for this scheme, then the best of luck, but make sure you are happy with the finances that will apparently be explained at phase 2 of selection, as Oxford/TCA will no doubt be issuing rose-tinted specs to you all at the beginning of the day!
Be under no illusions, these schemes make money for the Training Organisation and save money for the airline while the cadet carrys a large financial burden throughout his/her training and onwards through the best part of their first decade of airline employment.
Where on earth have you got the idea that you are harming your chances of airline employment by either not going for this scheme or going modular? The whole point of the counter-argument here is that this scheme is hellishly expensive, and arguably not worth the financial risk in the current rosy employment situation. This is simply a re-hash of the deal TCA have with CTC, only on closer inspection it appears as though it may actually work out even more expensive for the cadet ie - the living expenses. If anyone goes for this scheme, then the best of luck, but make sure you are happy with the finances that will apparently be explained at phase 2 of selection, as Oxford/TCA will no doubt be issuing rose-tinted specs to you all at the beginning of the day!
Be under no illusions, these schemes make money for the Training Organisation and save money for the airline while the cadet carrys a large financial burden throughout his/her training and onwards through the best part of their first decade of airline employment.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cannot disagree with Ek4457s argument that yes, this scheme is very expensive, the bottom line is that integrated is more expensive than modular. The debates between the 2 go on, everyone has their valid opinions however they do not belong on this thread.
However, this scheme is for integrated, so its only fair to compare this to an integrated self sponsorship scheme. So, comparing this TCX scheme with say a self sponsored APP FO trainee, the benefits clearly are there.
Financially, well there is some debate over the pay, and im sure it will be a good deal lower than TCX FO pay. That said, 12k a year tax free with which to pay it off is a vast saving around the 30k mark. On top of this, the reduced salary may well mean a different tax bracket altogether, this we'll have to see. Okay, the 7 years maybe gives less freedom, but as far as im aware, that 1k a month is there to do whatever he/she wishes to do with it.
Obviously the pay is reduced, however i'd like to see how it pans out, with the c30k saving, compared to the APP FO with the extra interest payable by taking 11 years to pay.
The APP FO has been taxed on his salary each month before he can pay it back. I'll be pretty sure that the TCX cadet will be at least equally as financially well off as the APP FO guy who chooses to pay it off over 7 yrs, probably better off in fact than most airline FOs barring maybe a select few. After 7 ys, well - you're in the clear.
TCX i believe will pay for the TR. I certainly wouldnt pay for a 757TR, however very few pilots pay for their second TR, and on top of that, its not costing the cadet 20k to do the TR. If the TCX cadet left and still had to do say an A320 TR and fund it himself, they are no worse off than the APP FO guy. Incidentally, the 757 is a beautiful aircraft, wait and see.
There is no bond with TCX, therefore, if one so wishes, they may leave TCX for say BA DEP with experience and be financially better off elsewhere. If not, they stay the 7 yrs and make the maximum financial benefit from the scheme. After which point, the TCX FO is substantially better set up financially than the FO who's got 4 yrs of payments to go, with interest to suit.
Finally, and in my opinion the most salient point - The conditional job offer itself. Ok, there is a possibility that there are no vacancies. This is unlikely, but its still a possibility. If, as a wannabe, you think you can pour scorn on the TCX scheme, and pick and choose which shiny jet airline you want to work for fresh from your integrated course, you are very much mistaken. Try it, but on your head be it. The conditional job offer itself should certainly be sufficient bait to lure wannabes towards the scheme, whether there was financial gain or not.
I am not naive. I know TCX arent doing this out of the goodness of their heart, nor will OAT be, however, good business doesnt have to have only 1 winner.
For all those wanting to do an integrated course, there is (by tax alone) sizable financial benefit. How much will be determined by the base salary. But wannabes, listen, this is as sure a chance as you can get for your money of getting a job. You would be unwise to dismiss it.
For the record, I have no affilliation with OAT or TCX, I am very financially literate, and would be happy to answer questions regarding that aspect. As Scroggs has said, read the T&C's, dont be caught out, but I very much doubt that the contract would be there to screw you over. They will be making gains through this scheme as it is.
Regards.
However, this scheme is for integrated, so its only fair to compare this to an integrated self sponsorship scheme. So, comparing this TCX scheme with say a self sponsored APP FO trainee, the benefits clearly are there.
Financially, well there is some debate over the pay, and im sure it will be a good deal lower than TCX FO pay. That said, 12k a year tax free with which to pay it off is a vast saving around the 30k mark. On top of this, the reduced salary may well mean a different tax bracket altogether, this we'll have to see. Okay, the 7 years maybe gives less freedom, but as far as im aware, that 1k a month is there to do whatever he/she wishes to do with it.
Obviously the pay is reduced, however i'd like to see how it pans out, with the c30k saving, compared to the APP FO with the extra interest payable by taking 11 years to pay.
The APP FO has been taxed on his salary each month before he can pay it back. I'll be pretty sure that the TCX cadet will be at least equally as financially well off as the APP FO guy who chooses to pay it off over 7 yrs, probably better off in fact than most airline FOs barring maybe a select few. After 7 ys, well - you're in the clear.
TCX i believe will pay for the TR. I certainly wouldnt pay for a 757TR, however very few pilots pay for their second TR, and on top of that, its not costing the cadet 20k to do the TR. If the TCX cadet left and still had to do say an A320 TR and fund it himself, they are no worse off than the APP FO guy. Incidentally, the 757 is a beautiful aircraft, wait and see.
There is no bond with TCX, therefore, if one so wishes, they may leave TCX for say BA DEP with experience and be financially better off elsewhere. If not, they stay the 7 yrs and make the maximum financial benefit from the scheme. After which point, the TCX FO is substantially better set up financially than the FO who's got 4 yrs of payments to go, with interest to suit.
Finally, and in my opinion the most salient point - The conditional job offer itself. Ok, there is a possibility that there are no vacancies. This is unlikely, but its still a possibility. If, as a wannabe, you think you can pour scorn on the TCX scheme, and pick and choose which shiny jet airline you want to work for fresh from your integrated course, you are very much mistaken. Try it, but on your head be it. The conditional job offer itself should certainly be sufficient bait to lure wannabes towards the scheme, whether there was financial gain or not.
I am not naive. I know TCX arent doing this out of the goodness of their heart, nor will OAT be, however, good business doesnt have to have only 1 winner.
For all those wanting to do an integrated course, there is (by tax alone) sizable financial benefit. How much will be determined by the base salary. But wannabes, listen, this is as sure a chance as you can get for your money of getting a job. You would be unwise to dismiss it.
For the record, I have no affilliation with OAT or TCX, I am very financially literate, and would be happy to answer questions regarding that aspect. As Scroggs has said, read the T&C's, dont be caught out, but I very much doubt that the contract would be there to screw you over. They will be making gains through this scheme as it is.
Regards.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetlagslag,
Agree totally - the real comparison here is TC vs. APP FO. On what little information we have, the salary comparison is between net take home at TC, and an APP FO with job elsewhere post training/interest costs. On this basis, the TC scheme doesn't appear bad at all - and certainly not deserving of the 'lowest paid jet driver on the planet' accolade some detractors here would label it.
Agree totally - the real comparison here is TC vs. APP FO. On what little information we have, the salary comparison is between net take home at TC, and an APP FO with job elsewhere post training/interest costs. On this basis, the TC scheme doesn't appear bad at all - and certainly not deserving of the 'lowest paid jet driver on the planet' accolade some detractors here would label it.
Last edited by easyflyer; 23rd Jun 2006 at 10:38.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely, easyfler.
Again it cant be pressed home enough that this is a conditional jet job offer. The financial savings are clear, if not allowing the flexibility that another FO would have, but they are there nonetheless. Even if there were no financial gains - it would still be worth going for.
Again it cant be pressed home enough that this is a conditional jet job offer. The financial savings are clear, if not allowing the flexibility that another FO would have, but they are there nonetheless. Even if there were no financial gains - it would still be worth going for.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...as they probably retain my details since I asked for an information package some time ago, OAT have emailed me today to remind me of this fantastic opportunity.
With only 5 days to go, and the new scheme largely advertised, doesn't it look a bit like scraping the bottom of the barrel ?
The scheme per se is nothing new to me, looks quite similar to the CTC Wings. The selection fee is quite high tho (195 quid) and this last minute door-to-door advertising for rectruits sounds a bit like "we need more bodies for the selection. At 195 quid each the more we can get for stage 2 the better !"
Also the fact that there is no upper age limit is a bit unusual.
I'd like to apply, even just for the sake of it, see how I do with the selection. But the thought of throwing away another 200 quid, plus travelling and accomodation, doesn't really appeal to me.
Guess the best people to ask advice for this are the TCX Captains I see every day at work ?
With only 5 days to go, and the new scheme largely advertised, doesn't it look a bit like scraping the bottom of the barrel ?
The scheme per se is nothing new to me, looks quite similar to the CTC Wings. The selection fee is quite high tho (195 quid) and this last minute door-to-door advertising for rectruits sounds a bit like "we need more bodies for the selection. At 195 quid each the more we can get for stage 2 the better !"
Also the fact that there is no upper age limit is a bit unusual.
I'd like to apply, even just for the sake of it, see how I do with the selection. But the thought of throwing away another 200 quid, plus travelling and accomodation, doesn't really appeal to me.
Guess the best people to ask advice for this are the TCX Captains I see every day at work ?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In t'sky
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone mentioned using the website to compare the salary scales - well I have and it shows that in the first three years, cadet's get £12,708 LESS than their FO counterparts. After that for the next 4 years it is in the region of £15,000 pa. The total difference is... wait for it...
£99,945
How does 1/10th of a million pounds sound like to you? That's the salary difference.
On a different note, i've taken another route. I'm currently cabin crew, my roster reads LAS, POP, PUJ, CUN, SFB, LAS, you get the idea. I'm being paid well for seeing the world, accompanied by a bevy of pretty girls, some cool pilots, I get to sit in the cockpit for positioning sectors and wear the headset, and still train in the meantime. On top of that, rumours inside the company state they wish to "reward loyalty to the company with attractive pilot packages for internal applicants".
Sounds good to me
Horgy
£99,945
How does 1/10th of a million pounds sound like to you? That's the salary difference.
On a different note, i've taken another route. I'm currently cabin crew, my roster reads LAS, POP, PUJ, CUN, SFB, LAS, you get the idea. I'm being paid well for seeing the world, accompanied by a bevy of pretty girls, some cool pilots, I get to sit in the cockpit for positioning sectors and wear the headset, and still train in the meantime. On top of that, rumours inside the company state they wish to "reward loyalty to the company with attractive pilot packages for internal applicants".
Sounds good to me
Horgy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As has been stated by authority, the cadet salary scale on the website is not the one which the TCX intends to use.
99K is a lot of money, however consider the saving made merely by having 12k a yr tax free on top of your cadet salary (whatever that may be.). So the fact that you may be 12-15k gross underpaid, what goes into your bank is well over 12k more than the base salary pa.
The tax and NI savings are over 30k alone, not to mention the cadets will be in a different tax bracket due to their lower cadet salary (whilst still getting a tax free 12k bumper).
Oh, free type rating.... theres another 20k.
Wait, theres more! A conditional job offer! worth the weight of a 757 in gold to any airline wannabes.
Is there a bond with TCX? Nope... if you should feel you'd be financially or professionally better off elsewhere, away you go. Then you'd be responsible for clearing the balance of the training cost yourself, as per any other integrated-trained employee.
MrHorgy, I have been asked to weigh up the financial ups and downs of the package for several people, and assuming the Ts & Cs are about the same as say, an FO with TCX, its a financially beneficial deal. Remember, a good business idea can benefit both the proposer and the customer. And in this case, im sure it does. Obviously you are in a different position altogether, with seemingly a different route into the RHS of a shiney TCX jet, and I wish you all the best. The benefits of this scheme are most relevent when weighed up against an APPFO grad who didnt take part in this scheme.
As for OAT scraping the barrel? Well again, im sure it's happy getting people in for selections and making some cash out of it, its also benefiting those who are unaware of the scheme. I believe those who have passed OAT selection prior to the scheme, but who have not joined OAT for training yet recieved an email notifying them of the scheme... OAT are not making money out of that, as those notified will not be required to be re-assessed. Rather if they are shortlisted, they will go for an interview at TCX.
Stop being such a bunch of sceptics and scaremongers! If you want to save max cash, go modular. Easy. Just bear in mind that airlines do generally tend prefer an integrated low hours student. This much is fact
it isn't saying modular students wont get employment, however.
If you are sure expensive integrated training is the way for you, well this is cheaper, much cheaper. It also carries the all important conditional job offer.
I would, however like to know what OAT would do with those who got onto the scheme and were then subsequently dropped by TCX on the basis of their training performance. I would imagine TCX would lay fairly stringent guidelines to their cadets, merely because they can.
I would like to think that they would continue the APP course like anyone else, they'd be getting the money just the same.
99K is a lot of money, however consider the saving made merely by having 12k a yr tax free on top of your cadet salary (whatever that may be.). So the fact that you may be 12-15k gross underpaid, what goes into your bank is well over 12k more than the base salary pa.
The tax and NI savings are over 30k alone, not to mention the cadets will be in a different tax bracket due to their lower cadet salary (whilst still getting a tax free 12k bumper).
Oh, free type rating.... theres another 20k.
Wait, theres more! A conditional job offer! worth the weight of a 757 in gold to any airline wannabes.
Is there a bond with TCX? Nope... if you should feel you'd be financially or professionally better off elsewhere, away you go. Then you'd be responsible for clearing the balance of the training cost yourself, as per any other integrated-trained employee.
MrHorgy, I have been asked to weigh up the financial ups and downs of the package for several people, and assuming the Ts & Cs are about the same as say, an FO with TCX, its a financially beneficial deal. Remember, a good business idea can benefit both the proposer and the customer. And in this case, im sure it does. Obviously you are in a different position altogether, with seemingly a different route into the RHS of a shiney TCX jet, and I wish you all the best. The benefits of this scheme are most relevent when weighed up against an APPFO grad who didnt take part in this scheme.
As for OAT scraping the barrel? Well again, im sure it's happy getting people in for selections and making some cash out of it, its also benefiting those who are unaware of the scheme. I believe those who have passed OAT selection prior to the scheme, but who have not joined OAT for training yet recieved an email notifying them of the scheme... OAT are not making money out of that, as those notified will not be required to be re-assessed. Rather if they are shortlisted, they will go for an interview at TCX.
Stop being such a bunch of sceptics and scaremongers! If you want to save max cash, go modular. Easy. Just bear in mind that airlines do generally tend prefer an integrated low hours student. This much is fact
it isn't saying modular students wont get employment, however.
If you are sure expensive integrated training is the way for you, well this is cheaper, much cheaper. It also carries the all important conditional job offer.
I would, however like to know what OAT would do with those who got onto the scheme and were then subsequently dropped by TCX on the basis of their training performance. I would imagine TCX would lay fairly stringent guidelines to their cadets, merely because they can.
I would like to think that they would continue the APP course like anyone else, they'd be getting the money just the same.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: unknown
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Horgy,
I dont think anyone is really in a position to comment on the salary difference between a cadet on the TCA scheme and a direct entrant into the company, until the scheme is more fully explained at phase 2 of the assessment.
If the cadet also received £12,000 a year tax free (which is rumoured) on top of the basic salary then he will actually be getting paid more than a direct entrant, although obviously the 12,000 will have to go straight into loan repayments.
£20,843 (+ flight pay) is a comparable starting salary to a recent university graduate entering a graduate scheme with a big company such as Airbus/Rolls/BAe, so it is not all doom and gloom for a TCA cadet. Plently of people manage on a salary that size quite happily.
Of course all the numbers i've stated may be complete and utter rubbish, but none of us will know until the full details are released by OAT/TCA. Perhaps we should all wait until these details are available before trying to compare salaries of a direct entrant and a cadet.
MM
I dont think anyone is really in a position to comment on the salary difference between a cadet on the TCA scheme and a direct entrant into the company, until the scheme is more fully explained at phase 2 of the assessment.
If the cadet also received £12,000 a year tax free (which is rumoured) on top of the basic salary then he will actually be getting paid more than a direct entrant, although obviously the 12,000 will have to go straight into loan repayments.
£20,843 (+ flight pay) is a comparable starting salary to a recent university graduate entering a graduate scheme with a big company such as Airbus/Rolls/BAe, so it is not all doom and gloom for a TCA cadet. Plently of people manage on a salary that size quite happily.
Of course all the numbers i've stated may be complete and utter rubbish, but none of us will know until the full details are released by OAT/TCA. Perhaps we should all wait until these details are available before trying to compare salaries of a direct entrant and a cadet.
MM
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hill Street Blues
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To quote Jetlagslag
You really believe that, well good for you, I don't, but then I am a bit more cynical than you are and I dare say it, older and wiser.
As they say, caveat emptor.
FF
Wait, theres more! A conditional job offer! worth the weight of a 757 in gold to any airline wannabes
As they say, caveat emptor.
FF
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do firmly believe it. I have seen dozens and dozens of pilots struggle to find employment, including right now, when the market is ideally situated, integrated and otherwise. Nobody in their right mind should think they are in a position fresh out of an FTO to think that someone like TCX is 'beneath' them. Its the all important aspect that makes the investment into an integrated course worthwhile.
Of course, as I said, theres no bond. Do the scheme, if its as bad as the scaremongers make out, disappear! go BA DEP or head to CX.
Its a competitive process, so I'm sure if one is of the calibre to get accepted onto this scheme, they have a good chance of attaining such goals as a Legacy airline pilot. Especially with a few yrs experience.
In such case, I doubt as to whether you'd be expected to pay for your second TR. Even if you did, who cares, everyone else fresh out of OAT APP does, bar I believe Excel and BA.
Of course, as I said, theres no bond. Do the scheme, if its as bad as the scaremongers make out, disappear! go BA DEP or head to CX.
Its a competitive process, so I'm sure if one is of the calibre to get accepted onto this scheme, they have a good chance of attaining such goals as a Legacy airline pilot. Especially with a few yrs experience.
In such case, I doubt as to whether you'd be expected to pay for your second TR. Even if you did, who cares, everyone else fresh out of OAT APP does, bar I believe Excel and BA.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone mentioned using the website to compare the salary scales - well I have and it shows that in the first three years, cadet's get £12,708 LESS than their FO counterparts. After that for the next 4 years it is in the region of £15,000 pa. The total difference is... wait for it...
£99,945
£99,945
Thought not.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not a case of being sceptical scaremongers.
Quite frankly I am very interested in this scheme and I would like to go for it, but I think 200 quid for the selection is an extortion. Considering I'll have to travel and find accomodation, plus taking time off work, it will probably cost me half grand altogether.
I am also not very sure about the application form for this scheme. Has anybody had a look at it ?
I think a Tesco application is more thorough and complete. This one has 3 questions... they basically don't even know who you are, where you studied or who you worked for. But it's enough information to decide whether you'll go to stage 2 or not.
Can't help thinking they are very keen on having people going to stage 2.
At least the CTC application was a lot more complex. You had to provide lots of details, referees, and then if they selected you there was one second part to send by fax.
Are they looking for the best motivated skilled young individuals ? Or for someone who's willing to take a financial risk ?
Quite frankly I am very interested in this scheme and I would like to go for it, but I think 200 quid for the selection is an extortion. Considering I'll have to travel and find accomodation, plus taking time off work, it will probably cost me half grand altogether.
I am also not very sure about the application form for this scheme. Has anybody had a look at it ?
I think a Tesco application is more thorough and complete. This one has 3 questions... they basically don't even know who you are, where you studied or who you worked for. But it's enough information to decide whether you'll go to stage 2 or not.
Can't help thinking they are very keen on having people going to stage 2.
At least the CTC application was a lot more complex. You had to provide lots of details, referees, and then if they selected you there was one second part to send by fax.
Are they looking for the best motivated skilled young individuals ? Or for someone who's willing to take a financial risk ?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
200 quid isnt cheap, however none of the integrated schools are i'm afraid.. At the end of the day you're requiring a fair wack of time from professionals so I'n not sure you can grumble..
As for the application form... Maybe they are after people to get to stage 2, however I know how I'd like to be assessed. Testing, aptitude, teamworking and by interviews. Not some poxy application form. I assume the form is there above anything else to screen for eligability.
I'm sure with the competition aspect, they will get the best motivated and skilled individuals. Everybody must take financial risk in this game I'm afraid. Integrated is clearly the most expensive. This scheme works out financially beneficial to the cadet, so I hardly think they want those just willing to take financial risk above anything else!
As for the application form... Maybe they are after people to get to stage 2, however I know how I'd like to be assessed. Testing, aptitude, teamworking and by interviews. Not some poxy application form. I assume the form is there above anything else to screen for eligability.
I'm sure with the competition aspect, they will get the best motivated and skilled individuals. Everybody must take financial risk in this game I'm afraid. Integrated is clearly the most expensive. This scheme works out financially beneficial to the cadet, so I hardly think they want those just willing to take financial risk above anything else!
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London
Age: 36
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been reading the info on OAT's site about this scheme and two questions pop into my mind..
1. How flexible is their 'Don't apply with predicted A-level grades' statement? Because I'd like to start running through schemes like this to try and pick up after being dropped from phase4 of the MAPS scheme
2. Is this going to be run more often? As in once or twice a year? because If I can't apply until i've got my grades... will I be able to in the future?
Any light anyone can shed would be nice
Ta!
Mike
1. How flexible is their 'Don't apply with predicted A-level grades' statement? Because I'd like to start running through schemes like this to try and pick up after being dropped from phase4 of the MAPS scheme
2. Is this going to be run more often? As in once or twice a year? because If I can't apply until i've got my grades... will I be able to in the future?
Any light anyone can shed would be nice
Ta!
Mike
Mike,
They will be quite strict about sadly.
Any schemes like this or true sponsorship schemes back in the day attract a huge number of applications which it takes a lot of admin to work through. Setting clauses like results etc are a way of cutting down the admin required and being able to give more attention to those that meet the criteria.
As to your second point noone will be able to answer sadly. This is the second year i think they have run this scheme and it is showing some forethought from the airline in judging their requirements. But who knows what will happen even while the current recruits are training - just ask the Aer Lingus cadets
Adding on to what X3 said too - Take everything people say with a pinch of salt. There are lots here who will give genuine advice. But you also need to bear in mind Fto's are businesses at the end of the day. And all that i have come across are VERY good at their marketing
They will be quite strict about sadly.
Any schemes like this or true sponsorship schemes back in the day attract a huge number of applications which it takes a lot of admin to work through. Setting clauses like results etc are a way of cutting down the admin required and being able to give more attention to those that meet the criteria.
As to your second point noone will be able to answer sadly. This is the second year i think they have run this scheme and it is showing some forethought from the airline in judging their requirements. But who knows what will happen even while the current recruits are training - just ask the Aer Lingus cadets
Adding on to what X3 said too - Take everything people say with a pinch of salt. There are lots here who will give genuine advice. But you also need to bear in mind Fto's are businesses at the end of the day. And all that i have come across are VERY good at their marketing
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think look at it this way...
You're still a self-sponsored student and not a cadet as you're still getting a loan from the bank - an agreement between you and the bank - not the airline and the bank. Therefore the cadet salaries you quote won't be applicable - instead they've just used the word 'cadet' to indicate you'll be on a 'special' salary geared towards this scheme and to help you with loan repayments. It's a valid possibility and would help explain a lot of the rash arguments to do with what you will be / wont be paid.
Good luck to all those who get to Stage 2 and learn more about it!!
You're still a self-sponsored student and not a cadet as you're still getting a loan from the bank - an agreement between you and the bank - not the airline and the bank. Therefore the cadet salaries you quote won't be applicable - instead they've just used the word 'cadet' to indicate you'll be on a 'special' salary geared towards this scheme and to help you with loan repayments. It's a valid possibility and would help explain a lot of the rash arguments to do with what you will be / wont be paid.
Good luck to all those who get to Stage 2 and learn more about it!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A place where something is or could be located; a site.
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Donandar, TCX have never run a 'cadet scheme' as you define it. If what you are saying is true, TCX have never used their cadet salary as they never have any 'cadets'. The CTC scheme is run the same way as this Oxford scheme (but is around 20k cheaper).
I know for a fact that the Cadet pay structure is in use. It would be useful if you would stop making things up and claiming them to be facts. You cannot claim that these salaries are not applicable. There is nothing to suggest this.
I agree that they are NOT cadets, but TCX/OAT would very much like us to think that they ARE.
I think that my issue with the scheme is this:
Yes, comparison to a normal APP is favourable. The tax relief is a significant benefit (if that is what it turns out to be).
However, the scheme is marketed as an affordable alternative to the APP. Claims of paying back the training costs / favourable rates of pay / significantly larger than the usual (enormous) loan etc give the impression that this is a relly good deal.
The reality is that if you could not afford the APP, you can't afford this. A tax fiddle on your loan payments, whilst nice, doesn't even dent a loan of 60k.
As I have said earlier, those who have already decided on the APP know the costs involved and are prepared to pay them (although I recently read a thread of a guy who was going on the APP with no flying experience because he 'couldn't afford a PPL' !!??
).
For this scheme you need (in addition to your 60k loan) 4k for fees, food and accomodation for 13 months and then to live on the lowest jet salary around for 7 years.
The marketing for the scheme should say this:
'If you can afford the APP and are already thinking about it, then apply for this because it's got the benefit of a bit of tax fiddling plus a good chance of a job.'
But it actually says this:
'These courses are really expensive and not everybody can afford it. But now you can! We give you a bigger loan but that doesn't matter because you'll get a job with TCX who will pay it all back for you. You can't loose (don't forget your £200 cheque).'
They are aiming at a certain type of person, and by the look of some of the posts, they are going to get them and their application fees.
Just not cricket.
EK
I know for a fact that the Cadet pay structure is in use. It would be useful if you would stop making things up and claiming them to be facts. You cannot claim that these salaries are not applicable. There is nothing to suggest this.
I agree that they are NOT cadets, but TCX/OAT would very much like us to think that they ARE.
I think that my issue with the scheme is this:
Yes, comparison to a normal APP is favourable. The tax relief is a significant benefit (if that is what it turns out to be).
However, the scheme is marketed as an affordable alternative to the APP. Claims of paying back the training costs / favourable rates of pay / significantly larger than the usual (enormous) loan etc give the impression that this is a relly good deal.
The reality is that if you could not afford the APP, you can't afford this. A tax fiddle on your loan payments, whilst nice, doesn't even dent a loan of 60k.
As I have said earlier, those who have already decided on the APP know the costs involved and are prepared to pay them (although I recently read a thread of a guy who was going on the APP with no flying experience because he 'couldn't afford a PPL' !!??
).For this scheme you need (in addition to your 60k loan) 4k for fees, food and accomodation for 13 months and then to live on the lowest jet salary around for 7 years.
The marketing for the scheme should say this:
'If you can afford the APP and are already thinking about it, then apply for this because it's got the benefit of a bit of tax fiddling plus a good chance of a job.'
But it actually says this:
'These courses are really expensive and not everybody can afford it. But now you can! We give you a bigger loan but that doesn't matter because you'll get a job with TCX who will pay it all back for you. You can't loose (don't forget your £200 cheque).'
They are aiming at a certain type of person, and by the look of some of the posts, they are going to get them and their application fees.
Just not cricket.
EK
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in the sea
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by EK4457
The reality is that if you could not afford the APP, you can't afford this. A tax fiddle on your loan payments, whilst nice, doesn't even dent a loan of 60k.
EK
EK