how many have found a job?
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A320 rider is obviously a 10 year old troll, and as such I am not rising to his bait.
However the last couple of posts have piqued my interest again in this old subject. Exactly how many people are training and qualifying each year? It seems incredibly hard to get this info.
IF you look at the CAA stats here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fc...es_2004_05.pdf, then it seems to imply that in 2004/05 963 CPLs were issued, of which only 154 had IRs attached.
I find this hard to believe given the number of IR examiners and centres around, and the number of courses around, however this paints a very different picture to the established mantra of 1000's of pilots training every year if true.
I have emailed the CAA to try and clarify my reading of these statistics tables, but got a reply which didn't tell me anything new.
Any other thoughts on this?
However the last couple of posts have piqued my interest again in this old subject. Exactly how many people are training and qualifying each year? It seems incredibly hard to get this info.
IF you look at the CAA stats here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fc...es_2004_05.pdf, then it seems to imply that in 2004/05 963 CPLs were issued, of which only 154 had IRs attached.
I find this hard to believe given the number of IR examiners and centres around, and the number of courses around, however this paints a very different picture to the established mantra of 1000's of pilots training every year if true.
I have emailed the CAA to try and clarify my reading of these statistics tables, but got a reply which didn't tell me anything new.
Any other thoughts on this?
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Originally Posted by scroggs
Probably in the order of 10 - 20% of those that complete an fATPL will never fly an aeroplane as a professional pilot.
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Don't forget that 'professional' encompasses all those who are paid to fly. If you want a statistic about those who get to airline jet jobs, you'll have to rely on a guess - and my guess is that, overall and at the moment, somewhere between 30% and 50%* of all new fATPL graduates get their first flying job on a jet within, say, 9 months of graduation. Obviously the figure varies from 95%+ at CTC to 0% from those schools that simply would not interest a jet wannabe, and everything in between.
Scroggs
It may be more, it may be less, but that's the kind of ballpark we're looking at. Don't give me a hard time if you have figures suggesting it's 25% or 55%!
Scroggs
It may be more, it may be less, but that's the kind of ballpark we're looking at. Don't give me a hard time if you have figures suggesting it's 25% or 55%!
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Annecdotal evidence from those I fly with suggests Scroggs is as accurate with his figures as this discussion needs. However, what is clear, is that the more prestigous the flight school and the more committed and more presentable the student (in attitude, appearance, education etc.), the more likely they are to get a job on completion of their studies. The 10% who will never get a job in commercial aviation are the same 10% who would find it difficult to get hired at a certain Scottish restaurant.
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Not quite sure which Scottish restaurant you're referring to but I get the idea! 
I'd be interested in a list (not much chance of this) of employed airline pilots and where they trained. Ok, we all know most people who go integrated will end up with a job. But what happens if you go to stapleford, leeds, bournemouth, tayflite, bristol etc? Does this significantly reduce your employment prospects? does it take longer but you get there in the end? Or is it a case of once an airline has run out of integrated oxford students to recruit, they read a few CVs and might take a few modular (oxford and cabair modular first of course!) ?
I'd be interested in a list (not much chance of this) of employed airline pilots and where they trained. Ok, we all know most people who go integrated will end up with a job. But what happens if you go to stapleford, leeds, bournemouth, tayflite, bristol etc? Does this significantly reduce your employment prospects? does it take longer but you get there in the end? Or is it a case of once an airline has run out of integrated oxford students to recruit, they read a few CVs and might take a few modular (oxford and cabair modular first of course!) ?
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Another factor to consider is how many people are forking out for either speculative or job pending type ratings ! That sort of info is also useful - well to me anyway !!
CG
CG
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Yeah I'd be interested to know that as well.... I have no intentions of paying for a type rating, but if people keep doing it then it will become the norm and the only way to get a job. I wouldn't mind so much if there was a guaranteed job at the end... or if I was bonded... but I'm not keen on forking out all that dosh with no guarantees - the fATPL is bad enough
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How does A320 find his stats? Hasn't another thread had a comment of 2-500 new posts with Easy? So how can there be only 500 posts in Europe for newbies, considering the number of retirements (high at the moment - my father's RAF contemporaries who flew civvy are all about that age where there is no choice, and they were a big recruitment bulge) and the expansion in the sector where I work which is outside Easy's market (I have a job, by the way A320) and in other companies I know of (e.g. FlyBe have half their ordered Q400s and are already short of pilots, Ryanair).
So where does the figure come from? And is the 5-10,000 as inaccurate?
So where does the figure come from? And is the 5-10,000 as inaccurate?
Somebody was asking about which schools people went to and where they were eventually employed. I'll start the ball rolling:
PPL (Humberside)
FAA IR (Texas)
Exams (Bristol)
CPL (EFT)
IR Conv (Atlantic Coventry)
MCC (Oxford)
Now with BA on A319/320/321 after short stint with a regional TP operator.
Hope this helps or is, at least, of interest to some.
PPL (Humberside)
FAA IR (Texas)
Exams (Bristol)
CPL (EFT)
IR Conv (Atlantic Coventry)
MCC (Oxford)
Now with BA on A319/320/321 after short stint with a regional TP operator.
Hope this helps or is, at least, of interest to some.
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Thanks Ham Phisted, thats exactly what I'm looking for!
It's good to see you trained at a variety of different schools and got a job. I've read so much about how airlines like it all done in one place but clearly you've proved this isn't necessary.
It's good to see you trained at a variety of different schools and got a job. I've read so much about how airlines like it all done in one place but clearly you've proved this isn't necessary.
No problem. Ppruners provided me with inspiration and information all the way through from PPL to the MCC so I'm only too pleased to offer any advice or information that I can.
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facts
Some hard facts :
- of the 10 guys who finished (succeeded) the fATPL course (modular) with me, only 1 has still an airline job right now. 1 or 2 had found a job but their airline went bankrupt after a few months (so they did not get any line experience).
- I know some jet pilots with 1000s of hours who are still unemployed right now and are still looking and they are unemployed because their airline went bankrupt or proceeded to mass layoffs (not because they were personnally fired)
- some airlines prefer to employ pilots from eastern europe and russia because they are much cheaper.
those are the facts in my possession. you can interpretate that as you want
- of the 10 guys who finished (succeeded) the fATPL course (modular) with me, only 1 has still an airline job right now. 1 or 2 had found a job but their airline went bankrupt after a few months (so they did not get any line experience).
- I know some jet pilots with 1000s of hours who are still unemployed right now and are still looking and they are unemployed because their airline went bankrupt or proceeded to mass layoffs (not because they were personnally fired)
- some airlines prefer to employ pilots from eastern europe and russia because they are much cheaper.
those are the facts in my possession. you can interpretate that as you want
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piperindian,
From reading your other doom and gloom posts I'm guessing you don't have a flying job?
I don't deny that it's hard to find a job, but from what I can tell, those who get left behind are those who are pessimistic, defeatest and generally not what an airline (or any other employer for that matter) is looking for...
were you on the same course as A320rider by any chance?
From reading your other doom and gloom posts I'm guessing you don't have a flying job?
I don't deny that it's hard to find a job, but from what I can tell, those who get left behind are those who are pessimistic, defeatest and generally not what an airline (or any other employer for that matter) is looking for...
were you on the same course as A320rider by any chance?
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Originally Posted by mcgoo
or maybe too far off course??
Something struck me the other day when I went to gatwick for my medical. I sat down in reception amongst 5 guys whom I was told were there to sit ATPL exams. Not one of them looked up at me, and when I said hello, not one of them spoke back. I then went into the medical suite and there were about 4 guys going through the process at the same time as myself. I thought there would be some conversation about flying - how many hours have you done? where are you training? etc etc. But again, not one person spoke. It's got me wondering how on earth anyone could sit next to somebody like that in a cockpit for more than 20 minutes without going insane
I'm thinking this was a sample of the future "unemployable fATPL holders"... either that or they're all sexist and didn't want to talk to me, or I'm some kind of freak
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Originally Posted by piperindian
femaleWannabe
your comments are not worth of an answer. i wish you will learn the hard way.
your comments are not worth of an answer. i wish you will learn the hard way.
I find it quite amusing that you just expect everyone to take your word for it - I believe you when you say you know unemployed pilots, but you don't give any background info, how can anyone make an informed decision based on the "facts" you have provided?
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Originally Posted by femaleWannabe
lol
Something struck me the other day when I went to gatwick for my medical.
Something struck me the other day when I went to gatwick for my medical.