BA Connect (was City Express)

[Thumperdown]

The pool

Some answers to your questions!
There are 2 pools in operation (and have not/will not close).
A jet pool and a TP pool.
Jet pool entry via completion of a full approved course and a recommendation from the approved school. This recommended candidate is then subject to an interview and group exercise. Entry also via website application with suitable experience.
Exit from the pool is purely on operational requirement and not necessarily in order of time served! Those who scored best at interview leave first. In house mentored scheme at Jerez also producing pilots who will graduate soon and enter the jet pool unless there is an immediate vacancy (12 per year). They will be allocated places first on jet fleets as they are in house.
TP pool still going strong. Entry via website, interview and group exercise. Website has not opened for over a year an will not open until pool has been depleted.
Exit on requirement! -6 swimmers removed this week for a course in Nov!
Last year ther were 9 DHC 8 courses of 6 (54 bods). This year only 4.
There is no recruitment if there is no need.
Patience is a virtue - sometimes even patience needs to be patient!
Brunei cadets to return soon - the airline got a good deal here and needs to take advantage of these. These decisions are made on a commercial basis and no other reason!
The BA Connect recruitment system is based on BA best practice. There are a lot of busy people in Didsbury and they cannot be expected to keep in touch. When they have anything to tell you they will ring you up and offer you a job. Until then they have nothing to say. I know it is frustrating - I was a fish once - now I am a fisherman! I wish I was a trawler.
Hope this helps
Thumper

[Whiteflyer]

So as I see it, intigrated low hours, get right hand seat on jets, whislt experienced F/O's on the Dash 8's (on lower salaries than these new comers), get passed over.

Is this right?

Where is the insentive for the Dash 8 F/O's to stay, when the likes of Easy are looking for these guys

Is this why many leave?

[EGCC4284]

You need a bigger boat.

[darkbarly]

pool evolution??

Thumper, thanks for the information, but your description of the course selection process begs the question -

If those selected scored highest at interview, what advantage to the airline (any of them) is there in leaving the lowest scores until last before re-opening the pool?

Secondly, If high interview scores are amongst the criteria for selection, why allow those with lower scores into the pool at all?

If this is accepted protocol, I doubt if you will find many in the hold pool who were informed as such? My recollection was call-up in order of sim date - on the grounds of fairness....

Noticed recently that small slits have appeared around my neck area, almost gill like

[Thumperdown]

Fairness V's Commercial?

Whiteflyer

The company needs to recruit pilots for the Dash. If an individual gets a call saying "do you want a job" most swimmers would say yes. The company ensures a steady flow (trickle at times) from the Dash to the jet to ensure career progression - but somebody has to fly the Dash!!. This is done for moral reasons as the initial engagement freeze is for 2 years plus the rest of the current training year. Direct entry jet salaries are higher than Dash (because that is the industry norm). DE jet people are on a reduced salary scale for 2 years. The Dash guys are likely to move after a year or 14/15 months onto the full jet scale and will therefore earn more than a colleague who starts at the same time on a reduced (SSP) jet scale. Also they would have useful TP experience. One could argue the fairness of any system - it is a business and somebody needs to fly the Dash!!
Regards
Thumper

[Thumperdown]

The pool

Darkbarly

I can only advise what I know! As previously reported - be patient! The pool is still very much active and if you are in it you will get a call when it becomes your turn. If you get a job elsewhere - good luck. Life is not always fair but BA Connect operates a policy that is as fair and practical to both the company and the people in the pool. It must attempt to reduce the trainig risk where possible.
In the meantime may I suggest that you get a needle and thread and sort out those slits in case the phone rings!!
Regards
Thumper

[ROSCO328]

Glad to see some still have a sense of humour

[Bram212]

Ba Connect!

Hi there,

I've got a few questions about BA Connect. Sorry if its already somewhere but since their site is not telling me all that much and my read trough the forums delivered me nothing Iam trying a new thread

I would like to know more about there:

- Bases
- Selection procedure
- Salary (prop and jet)
- Rosters
- Type rating (self sponsored?)
- and the peeps they recruit who just com out of school, are they usually placed on the Dash 8? Or also on the Embrear145 or Bae146?

Well any info is welcome, thx in advance!

[papazulu]

it is a business and somebody needs to fly the Dash!!

I would do the dirty job...Shame I am not in the pool since they closed before I got the reqs. Any news on when it will open again? Today's status? I feel a bit too old to wait for long, but BA is always worth a try.

PZ

[MrMutra]

Heard on the grape vine, no courses this year now for anyone in the hold pool. Courses now full with 200 hour cadets from Bae and cabair for the rest of the year and early next year

A very happy xmas for all you in the hold pool from BACON not

Well good luck to any of you in the hold pool and hope you get a job elsewhere.

[Han 1st Solo]

Holding Pool

Talked to RH yesterday from flight operations, course end of this year recruiting from the dash 8 holding pool maybe a course early next year Jan or Feb but nothing definate. She said at most 20 left in the dash holding pool although I know for sure that some have found employment elsewhere so hopefully there is less. Started selecting people from the dash pool on who's most suitable as opposed to date order of pool entry, not quite sure what that means as anyone in the pool should be suitable.

For those unfamiliar with BACON recruitment it seems that all intergrated students are recruited into the jet holding pool all applicants recruited through the online application go into the dash pool.

Regards,

Han.

[Thumperdown]

The whole truth!

Han
You are correct as I stated in my previous postings.
McMurtra
You are completely incorrect - refer to my previous postings - and try to look on the bright side! There is a Dash course at the very end of October which will see sim completed in Dec and line training in Jan with 2 potential courses (depending on need) in the early part of new year. NOT filled by 200 hour cadets from anywhere. There is a course of 8 approved mentor scheme FTE cadets who will start on the 14 nov (145 x 6) and 27th nov (2 x RJ 100) all Edi based.
PZ
The info regarding numbers in the pool supplied by Han is correct. Depending on the need will depend the rate at which it is emptied. This will also depend on how many within the pool have got jobs elsewhere. It would help if those who have got a job let RH know! When it is almost depleted the site will open.
Bram
Bases in Inv, Edi, Man, Bhx, Brs and Iom
Starter Pay 21k TP & 35k Jet (approx)
Selection system - see my previous posting
Rosters - excellent scheduling agreement with VG terms and conditions 7 weeks leave etc
Bond (at company expense) over 2 years decreasing at 1/24th
Those that were previously told about getting an interview and have not will need to re-apply when the site opens because the info held is now more than a year out of date and that is the system.
Will do my best to answer any questions regarding the BA Connect recruiting system.
Regards
Thumper

Ps Please see my earlier posting about selection from the pool which is as I stated is not in date order, unfair as that may seem.

[razzele]

Well since I got possibly the best email of my life regarding a future interview for formely BACX, I have not heard anything more !

How rude !

I have added some 800hrs total time since then, I wonder if RH would like to recieve an update in my status ? If so where would i send it any ideas ?

[Thumperdown]

Haven't you done well!

I am sure RH will be delighted to hear of you success - Razzele
BA Connect
Pioneer House
The Towers Business Park
Didsbury
M20 2BA

[Toastal]

Recruiting onto Jet fleets

Maybe Thumperdown or any of the BACON 'fast jet' pilots can help with this one!

After looking on PPJN it states that all internal recruiting from the Dash onto 146/145 has been suspended. It states that only integrated folk are starting on the jet fleets. Firstly, is this true and secondly, is it just 'flavour of the month' or will it change longer term? I know that folk are Type Frozen on the Dash for 2 years, but historically have moved on after 16 months or so. Are they now making the guys do the 2 years before an increase in both speed and salary?

Answers on a postcard please!!

[Captain Spam Can]

This question is just out of curiosity, it seems that most people start on the dash then after 12 or so months go onto the EMB-145, well how do they get Captains for the dash, surely then don’t promote you from Dash F/O to EMB F/O then back to dash for Capt then after that EMB Capt???? I’ve just always been curious how it works? (B.T.W no way near job hunting yet just curious)

[Thumperdown]

Movement

Hi Toastal
Movement onto the ERJ/RJ for Dash pilots has definately not been suspended. For a short time, because of need, progression from Dash To Jet was very rapid. This soon became the expected norm (by dash fo's). Realistically one would/should expect to serve about 16-18 months on the Dash before moving to a jet fleet. Recently the progression has slowed to about that which should realistically be expected and this to the irritation of those still on the TP fleet. The Head of Flight Crew has deliberately employed new f/o's to allow career progresion onto the jet fleet. If you read my previous postings the way this is done is explained. The statement you asked about is not true.
The Dash f/o's are employed subject to a 2 year initial engagement freeze in addition to the rest of the current training year. The company could keep them on the fleet for that time but as previously stated expect them to move on around 16-18 months. This of course can change subject to need.
CaptspamCan
Yip thats the way it works or should work! TP F/o to Jet F/o to TP Capt to Jet Capt. Of course in the company people bid for what they want on a seniority basis. If someone does not want to go back to a TP as a captain they can wait out their time as a jet F/o (on less money!) until seniority allocates them a jet command. Most tend to want their own train set and go the flip flop route.
Trust that helps
Thumper

[spanner the cat]

Toastal

Unfortunately BA Connect have recruited a lot of new-entrants straight onto the jet fleets. The pilots start on a lower salary (rather like the BA SSP scheme) and get some extra training. They all come recommended by their flying schools (as I understand it) and it isn't brilliant because there are more senior Dash pilots being paid less. The point has been made in the past to Flight Ops Management but to no avail. It's a very good way to keep salaries down as far as they are concerned. The conspiracy theorists amongst the pilots also point out that these shiny young SSP-type pilots would possibly be more acceptable to big BA too. Yes, the Dash pilots are being held to their initial type freezes. Historically it has been as low as 11 to 12 months but as the Dash still has some questionmark over its future they'll try to keep people on as long as they can before shifting people onto the jet.


Captain Spamcan

That's exactly how it works. Mind you it's all down to how you bid. If your choice is to stay on the jet and go directly to a jet command just be prepared for a long wait. Generally, the more junior the FO the more likely they are to bid for a Dash Command - particularly as it would entail a move to MAN and then doing a lot of touring and 5-6 sector days.

As a general rule jet commands have been as rare as rocking horse poo for the past 3 years. The salary differential also encourages you not to stay on the Dash.

Regards

[Thumperdown]

The big freeze

Spanner the cat said
"Yes, the Dash pilots are being held to their initial type freezes. Historically it has been as low as 11 to 12 months but as the Dash still has some questionmark over its future they'll try to keep people on as long as they can before shifting people onto the jet."
Spanner - there is not one F/O who has been held to their initial type freeze. There is one who declined an aspirational bid and therefore remains on the fleet. The ? mark over its future has nothing to do with keeping anybody anywhere for any length of time. The company are experimenting with mentored cadets with JOC course due to the training costs experienced with DEP's onto the Jet. The slightly slower movement from Dash to Jet will continue as needs demand. There will be only 12 ssp's a year.
The company need people to fly the dash. Everytime they put a dash f/o onto a jet it costs them 2 type ratings - one jet and a replacement. They need to get a bit of value out of the dash f/o's before releasing them. They also need people to fly the jets. Of course the easy way around it would be to ask f/o's to pay for their initial type rating..... Lets not go there!
Regards
Thumper

[spanner the cat]

Thumper

So how many SSPs have been recruited since the scheme started? Looking at the 06/07 bid result and Sept 06 seniority lists I'd guess that 43 or so pilots have been recruited directly onto the jet fleets in 18 months (give or take). I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong and I can't say for sure if all are low houred and fresh from training but I've a hunch that most are.

The best way to do it would be to promote existing Dash F/O's before recruiting directly onto the jet or compensate the individuals concerned for loss of pay. The easy way (hur hur good pun ). Let's see. Jet starting pay 34k, SSP starting pay circa 26k. Increase a bit over three years (8 + 5 + 2) and hey presto! The type rating seems to have been mostly paid for! Wow that's a neat trick . No I'm not advocating paying for type ratings. PH and CP should do it the good old-fashioned way.

The Dash leases were only renewed for a limited time and if the company could find a suitable buyer for them they'd sell, without a doubt. You just have to look at what has happened in the past to pilots flying a type in the process of being phased out or a reducing fleet. The Co. still needs to fly the type so movement off the fleet stops or is very curtailed. Whether you like it or not, the Dash fleet does have the feeling that it's withering on the vine. I remember being told during one of the previous base closures that the Company had reached a critical mass below which it went at its peril. Well here we are 3 or so years later and we've shed a good number of RJ's and 2-4 Dash 8's since and here we are not even finished with shrinking yet. Doesn't say much for the prospects of progression to a jet for those just being recruited for the Dash.
That having been said it's good that they're finally recruiting to allow current D8 FOs to get a jet seat. A company should always seek to promote/progress from within.


Regards

Spanner