How much would you work for?
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How much would you work for?
A particularly pointed post about pilot terms and conditions (and their relevance to wannabes) has been made by African Skies on one of the Ryanair threads (Rumours and News).
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=2
Should be compulsory reading for all wannabes looking for that first job and contemplating buying a type rating or working for peanuts (or both!)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=2
Should be compulsory reading for all wannabes looking for that first job and contemplating buying a type rating or working for peanuts (or both!)
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As usual it's quite difficult to extract the facts from the postings. If it is true that Line Captains won't be paid extra for taking on training duties, then:
1. it doesn't surprise me
2. why do they do it?
3. how do RYR get away with it?
As for us low experience people, I was thinking about this the other day. You won't be able to escape cr*p terms and conditions at this end of the market, because of supply and demand. The most basic law in economics: low experience pilots are in good supply, but there is not much demand!!!
Just have to hope for a lucky break. If that lucky break comes with getting my 737 hours in with f***ing SeamusAir, so be it.
Would MUCH rather sell my soul to Stelios, who's actually a rather nice bloke (I've met him, but then again who hasn't?).
1. it doesn't surprise me
2. why do they do it?
3. how do RYR get away with it?
As for us low experience people, I was thinking about this the other day. You won't be able to escape cr*p terms and conditions at this end of the market, because of supply and demand. The most basic law in economics: low experience pilots are in good supply, but there is not much demand!!!
Just have to hope for a lucky break. If that lucky break comes with getting my 737 hours in with f***ing SeamusAir, so be it.
Would MUCH rather sell my soul to Stelios, who's actually a rather nice bloke (I've met him, but then again who hasn't?).
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Wow,
Great post by African Skies. Us pilots have been making a rod for our own back.
I think it has been slowly happening over the last 10 years. But especially since Sept 11 compounded by our buoyant housing market making it easier for jobless pilots to release equity to self-fund type ratings.
The question is, where does this end?
Great post by African Skies. Us pilots have been making a rod for our own back.
I think it has been slowly happening over the last 10 years. But especially since Sept 11 compounded by our buoyant housing market making it easier for jobless pilots to release equity to self-fund type ratings.
The question is, where does this end?
I just hope the house price market cools and goes back to a reasonable value, because people think they can borrow as much as they want because hey, if i sell the house im coverd. If people would think a bit more, you should try and keep debt to a level that if you had to, you could pay off in 6 months WITHOUT selling your home. If everyone did that i suppose the econmy would collapse, so its up to us smart ones to do that and not be caught out when the house market does cool. just my 2 cents
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How much would you work for?
Just a quick question,
If someone was to offer you a job on a small turboprop like the King Air B200, type rating paid for etc. What would be the lowest you would work for?
Thanks
If someone was to offer you a job on a small turboprop like the King Air B200, type rating paid for etc. What would be the lowest you would work for?
Thanks
Last edited by J32/41; 30th Apr 2006 at 22:51.
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Minimum, I guess it would be "Food and Lodging" at the going rate for the area, plus about £200 a week.
That would keep the wolves from the door until I could get something better.
Why? Have you been offered something? (Please don't say they want you to do it for the privilege of them paying for the type rating!)
That would keep the wolves from the door until I could get something better.
Why? Have you been offered something? (Please don't say they want you to do it for the privilege of them paying for the type rating!)
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Originally Posted by LD Max
Minimum, I guess it would be "Food and Lodging" at the going rate for the area, plus about £200 a week.
That would keep the wolves from the door until I could get something better.
Why? Have you been offered something? (Please don't say they want you to do it for the privilege of them paying for the type rating!)
That would keep the wolves from the door until I could get something better.
Why? Have you been offered something? (Please don't say they want you to do it for the privilege of them paying for the type rating!)
You wouldn't consider relocating to minimise such costs and to display a commitment to the employer?
Very strange attitude if one is trying to secure a first commercial position!
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Originally Posted by J32/41
Just a quick question,
If someone was to offer you a job on a small turboprop like the King Air B200, type rating paid for etc. What would be the lowest you would work for?
Thanks
If someone was to offer you a job on a small turboprop like the King Air B200, type rating paid for etc. What would be the lowest you would work for?
Thanks
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duir - I just turned down a job on a King Air 200 because I would be worse off than as a flying instructor!
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Originally Posted by rmcdonal
Phileas Fogg I think LD Max was implying they provide suitable Lodging e.g. a flat, or a caravan.
Funny how some people are so ready to think the worst of eveyone else!
Superpilot makes a good point too.
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LD Max,
That's a fair enough response however you did say 'lodging' which is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as 'a temporary place of residence. 2 (lodgings) a rented room or rooms, usually in the same residence as the owner' hence my apparent misunderstanding.
Mcdonal, you are suggesting that the employer provide accommodation which is not standard business practice when one is accepting a permanent position allbeit away from one's home domicile. Never mind self sponsored type ratings, how about self sponsored accommodation, every other profession, practically, pays for their own accommodation, why should pilots be so different?
And for one or two of the other smart ass's around here, ever been asked the question by an employer 'are you willing to relocate?', well guess what, if an employer asks that then you're supposed to answer 'yes'.
That's a fair enough response however you did say 'lodging' which is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as 'a temporary place of residence. 2 (lodgings) a rented room or rooms, usually in the same residence as the owner' hence my apparent misunderstanding.
Mcdonal, you are suggesting that the employer provide accommodation which is not standard business practice when one is accepting a permanent position allbeit away from one's home domicile. Never mind self sponsored type ratings, how about self sponsored accommodation, every other profession, practically, pays for their own accommodation, why should pilots be so different?
And for one or two of the other smart ass's around here, ever been asked the question by an employer 'are you willing to relocate?', well guess what, if an employer asks that then you're supposed to answer 'yes'.
Mcdonal, you are suggesting that the employer provide accommodation which is not standard business practice when one is accepting a permanent position allbeit away from one's home domicile. Never mind self sponsored type ratings, how about self sponsored accommodation, every other profession, practically, pays for their own accommodation, why should pilots be so different?
(but only 2hrs to the nearest pub 
).I do agree however if you want the job you have to move to it. Even if it is on the other side of the country…or several countries as the case is for the European pilots.
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I would only add that I used to work in the communications industry (QA Engineer), and as it was as large international company (Racal - now absorbed into Thales), at the time they would pay a quite generous relocation package.
Racal employees who were moved to work on contracts overseas often got Ex-Pat accommodation thrown in with the tax-free salary!
Anyway, "horses for courses" - I would have no objection to making my own arrangements if I had to move, but unless the accommodation was provided by (or through) the employer, then naturally the salary would have to be sufficient to support it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that in the UK, one is often tied in to a 6 or 12 month "Shorthold Tenancy" agreement when renting a flat. I for one would be reluctant to enter into one of those agreements until established in the job and at least past the usual 6 month "trial period".
Therefore short-term accommodation such as a B&B would probably be more appropriate initially, unless there was somewhere more informal I could crash.
Don't get me wrong, I can (and am prepared to) live frugally for a while.
LD Max
Racal employees who were moved to work on contracts overseas often got Ex-Pat accommodation thrown in with the tax-free salary!
Anyway, "horses for courses" - I would have no objection to making my own arrangements if I had to move, but unless the accommodation was provided by (or through) the employer, then naturally the salary would have to be sufficient to support it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that in the UK, one is often tied in to a 6 or 12 month "Shorthold Tenancy" agreement when renting a flat. I for one would be reluctant to enter into one of those agreements until established in the job and at least past the usual 6 month "trial period".
Therefore short-term accommodation such as a B&B would probably be more appropriate initially, unless there was somewhere more informal I could crash.
Don't get me wrong, I can (and am prepared to) live frugally for a while.
LD Max
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Working for free
Hi there!
Reading the threads here in pprune I've noticed many people with the same problem:
frozen ATPL and less than 250 hrs = no job. Are there any airlines which hire people
working for them for free, let's say for one year or so just to get some flying experience
on a type and thensearch for a job somewhere else?
Anyone heard about such a case?
Cheers,
agente069
Reading the threads here in pprune I've noticed many people with the same problem:
frozen ATPL and less than 250 hrs = no job. Are there any airlines which hire people
working for them for free, let's say for one year or so just to get some flying experience
on a type and thensearch for a job somewhere else?
Anyone heard about such a case?
Cheers,
agente069