How much would you work for?
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flying for free is the most stupid thing poeple can do!
did you pay 50k pounds for your training to work for free?
it devalues your worth as a professional pilot.
dont do it!
did you pay 50k pounds for your training to work for free?
it devalues your worth as a professional pilot.
dont do it!
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People like you, have caused this profession to fall into the slime pit, worthless, poorly paid eroded mess its in.
Do not , repeat not, work for free...
Would you go to Macdonalds, and ask to work there for free? - Just so you could get some experience of the fast food industry.....??????? - I think not.
Mind you though, if you become an instructor the pay is so poor, that by the time you deduct your cost of getting to a busy airport, and the rest, its virtually nothing....
I really give in.....
Do not , repeat not, work for free...
Would you go to Macdonalds, and ask to work there for free? - Just so you could get some experience of the fast food industry.....??????? - I think not.
Mind you though, if you become an instructor the pay is so poor, that by the time you deduct your cost of getting to a busy airport, and the rest, its virtually nothing....
I really give in.....
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Quite ! ......... and what exactly is one supposed to live off during this 'year or so' ?
Sadly the truth is .............. if such a scheme/airline ever existed there would be people desperate or daft enough to do it !
Nuff said .......
Sadly the truth is .............. if such a scheme/airline ever existed there would be people desperate or daft enough to do it !
Nuff said .......
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'Will work for Free'
I think you will find all you are looking for in the above thread(T of E), which caused quite a stirr!
DO NOT WORK FOR FREE, do what we all had to do and persevere!
There are jobs out there, flybe need 250 pilots over the next few years, Easyjet 450 etc..........Your time will come, keep current, get a job in aviation if possible ie ops, crewing, and IT WILL HAPPEN!
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endofeng
I think you will find all you are looking for in the above thread(T of E), which caused quite a stirr!
DO NOT WORK FOR FREE, do what we all had to do and persevere!
There are jobs out there, flybe need 250 pilots over the next few years, Easyjet 450 etc..........Your time will come, keep current, get a job in aviation if possible ie ops, crewing, and IT WILL HAPPEN!
-----------------
endofeng
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Bit off subject
I know this is off subject!!!But you say and i`m glad to here airlines will be recruiting large numbers over the next few years which should STOP people feeling they have to work for free to get a foot in the door!I am curious as to why ie Fly-be are taking on approx 250(which is EXCELLENT news)is it expansion or people moving on or just a combination?
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get yourself into ops or crewing or whatever and get yourself in the backdoor...then do some instructing or parachute dropping, towing etc on the days off and eventually you will get a decent break..
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Don't get me started on people working for free..... or more realistically - people offering to work for free because not many companies/airlines would let someone work for free.
Some older guys instruct for free - this is a two-sided sword, they claim this 'gives something back' but the flipside is that it doesn't exactly help the low-houred, low income instructor situation.
Q: So who are they really giving something back to exactly?
A: A rich IT consultant doing a PPL for fun, and a fledgling flying club.
Certainly not aspiring commercial pilots.
VFE.
Some older guys instruct for free - this is a two-sided sword, they claim this 'gives something back' but the flipside is that it doesn't exactly help the low-houred, low income instructor situation.
Q: So who are they really giving something back to exactly?
A: A rich IT consultant doing a PPL for fun, and a fledgling flying club.
Certainly not aspiring commercial pilots.
VFE.
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Don't work for free. It ruins the market for the rest of us who actually need to make a living out of what we do. Please talk yourself out of any inclination to do so immediately. We've all had to struggle with that first foot in the door, unless you want to become very unpopular on this forum, you should just stick it out until something comes up. Don't work for free.
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pipertommy
Flybe plan to expand over the next few years, they are still taking reciept of new Q400's and have options on many more. At current the word is we are short of crews!
Last month 7 resigned, and the rumour is many more will leave throughout winter. The new EMB195 is due in service at the end of the month (14 on order), few from the Q400 will be lucky enough to fly her so many are leaving, which in turn frees up seats on the Q400, which might I add is a great aircraft to cut your teeth on!
Keep on trying Flybe, and other Turbo Prop operators. It's very nice to hear of guys getting straight onto the shinny jet, but don't expect to....Target the smaller operators, earn your time, the jet will come later, plus you get some pretty good flying on the turbo-props!
I would reccomend you get yourself a job in Ops, Crewing, anything within an airline, and there you can network! It is a shame ailrines do not have some kind of Apprenticeship system!
Good Luck!
ps If you know anyone in an airline, NETWORK!
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endofeng
Flybe plan to expand over the next few years, they are still taking reciept of new Q400's and have options on many more. At current the word is we are short of crews!
Last month 7 resigned, and the rumour is many more will leave throughout winter. The new EMB195 is due in service at the end of the month (14 on order), few from the Q400 will be lucky enough to fly her so many are leaving, which in turn frees up seats on the Q400, which might I add is a great aircraft to cut your teeth on!
Keep on trying Flybe, and other Turbo Prop operators. It's very nice to hear of guys getting straight onto the shinny jet, but don't expect to....Target the smaller operators, earn your time, the jet will come later, plus you get some pretty good flying on the turbo-props!
I would reccomend you get yourself a job in Ops, Crewing, anything within an airline, and there you can network! It is a shame ailrines do not have some kind of Apprenticeship system!
Good Luck!
ps If you know anyone in an airline, NETWORK!
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endofeng
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Seems to me that Flybe have been "short of crews" for over a year now! The feeling one gets is that they'd sooner canx the odd flight due to understaffing rather than train up newbies to fly for them. Obviously some bean counter who gets paid far more than we're ever likely to get paid has calculated this to be the most effective course of action. They want experienced guys but as most are begining to realise - there ain't many unemployed ones about nowadays.
It's their groove and their move.
VFE.
It's their groove and their move.
VFE.
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Quote; "they'd sooner canx the odd flight due to understaffing rather than train up newbies to fly for them"
VFE,
I don't think this is the case! There seems to be a lack of training providers ie TRI/TRE's due to many resigning, this seems to be the main problem with getting newbies on line!
From my understanding Flybe are and will continue to recruit both FO's and Captains. There is a large expansion of fleets and large numbers of leavers.
The opening of their new Sim in Farnborough should eleviate some pressure, but the general consensus is more pilots are needed. If the company goes down the road (which it seems to be) of reducing the newcomers (FO's)
salary to £23k and bonding them for £13.5 non reducing over 3 years, it would suggest they are happy to let FO's leave instead of giving them some insentive to stay. Over the next few years I would hazard a guess they will be seriously short of Captains as most FO's will leave. (It is managements view the future Captains should come from within, but if we all leave, there will be no within!)
It looks as if Flybe will become a training provider, or is that remain a training provider you decide!
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endofeng
VFE,
I don't think this is the case! There seems to be a lack of training providers ie TRI/TRE's due to many resigning, this seems to be the main problem with getting newbies on line!
From my understanding Flybe are and will continue to recruit both FO's and Captains. There is a large expansion of fleets and large numbers of leavers.
The opening of their new Sim in Farnborough should eleviate some pressure, but the general consensus is more pilots are needed. If the company goes down the road (which it seems to be) of reducing the newcomers (FO's)
salary to £23k and bonding them for £13.5 non reducing over 3 years, it would suggest they are happy to let FO's leave instead of giving them some insentive to stay. Over the next few years I would hazard a guess they will be seriously short of Captains as most FO's will leave. (It is managements view the future Captains should come from within, but if we all leave, there will be no within!)
It looks as if Flybe will become a training provider, or is that remain a training provider you decide!
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endofeng
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One of the problems with recruitment has been the lack of Q400 sim slots worldwide. Only 3 sims exist at the mo, number 4 i understand is opening at farnborough later this year. The new sim should ease the problem somewhat. Also a number of TRI/E`s resigned their positions a while ago through always being away in either Stokholm or Toronto/Seatle. Although they have been replaced its still taking time to get people in on initial training whilst keeping existing crews current OPC`s LPC`s etc.
All of this of course is not helped by the grown-ups at HQ Air Cadets (Exeter)
Thinking outside boxes with big pictures apparently!
Things should start to pick up in recruitment, we are already short of crews and with more aircraft arriving just about monthly we do need more. The Dash, when it works is a good ship to cut your teeth on.
All of this of course is not helped by the grown-ups at HQ Air Cadets (Exeter)
Thinking outside boxes with big pictures apparently! Things should start to pick up in recruitment, we are already short of crews and with more aircraft arriving just about monthly we do need more. The Dash, when it works is a good ship to cut your teeth on.
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mad bob,
you are right, looks the curve angle of "pilots needed" is increasing every day...so my advice would be to wait and see (for people who can wait...)
maybe you will be the happy winner of the "you have been selected for an interview"... then "we would be happy to have you as pilot"
you are right, looks the curve angle of "pilots needed" is increasing every day...so my advice would be to wait and see (for people who can wait...)
maybe you will be the happy winner of the "you have been selected for an interview"... then "we would be happy to have you as pilot"
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Thanks for the reply Endofeng!Yes i actually want to spend time on props.I like the kind of flying they do,short sectors rather than watching the computers at work for hours.
Flybe sounds very promising to a wanabe!Hope to be sending the cv`s out next summer
Thanks again PT.
Flybe sounds very promising to a wanabe!Hope to be sending the cv`s out next summer
Thanks again PT.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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I don't think this is the case! There seems to be a lack of training providers ie TRI/TRE's due to many resigning, this seems to be the main problem with getting newbies on line!
VFE.
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VFE,
They are offering, or trying to offer better insentives to TRI/TRE's, but the bottom line is these guys are sick of spending weeks upon weeks in the sim. Remember these guys are incredibly busy keeping line pilots current with OPC/LPC's as well as training new guys!
They need more TRI/TRE's, as I already said, many have resigned!
MadBob,
Whilst in the sim a few weeks ago (Stockholm), I was told we were missing sim slots as we did not have the trainers, at an astronomical cost to Flybe!
I think we have the slots, but still not enough trainers.....I'm sure things will improve as new trainers are brought online, and the opening of Farnbourough!
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endofeng
They are offering, or trying to offer better insentives to TRI/TRE's, but the bottom line is these guys are sick of spending weeks upon weeks in the sim. Remember these guys are incredibly busy keeping line pilots current with OPC/LPC's as well as training new guys!
They need more TRI/TRE's, as I already said, many have resigned!
MadBob,
Whilst in the sim a few weeks ago (Stockholm), I was told we were missing sim slots as we did not have the trainers, at an astronomical cost to Flybe!
I think we have the slots, but still not enough trainers.....I'm sure things will improve as new trainers are brought online, and the opening of Farnbourough!
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endofeng
Last edited by endofeng; 20th Sep 2006 at 09:15. Reason: forgot to mention
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Excellent - A troll "work for free" thread turns into a "Flybe training problem thread" !
Big recruitment from GB/Easy/Ryan (more to add soon) which will run on and on into the new year (450 for Easy alone next year!) will suck many of Flybe's experienced FO's and possibly Captains - I know 5 at Flybe whose CV's are elsewhere right now with another 3 already out the door for aforementioned carriers. Pipertommy, if you enjoy short sectors and quick turnarounds, you might as well get paid £40k+ rather than 20k+ don't you think? Have you also seen some of the approach plates that Ryan use to let down into unheard of airports? Certain to put hairs on your chest.
Flybe can't take too many in-experienced FO's to cover these leavers and I believe that the CAA would stop Flybe from having such an unbalanced airline in terms of experience levels.
So, if Flybe have all these Embraer's arriving, who is going to fly them. Who is going to leave where to join Flybe? I'd love to know?
Big recruitment from GB/Easy/Ryan (more to add soon) which will run on and on into the new year (450 for Easy alone next year!) will suck many of Flybe's experienced FO's and possibly Captains - I know 5 at Flybe whose CV's are elsewhere right now with another 3 already out the door for aforementioned carriers. Pipertommy, if you enjoy short sectors and quick turnarounds, you might as well get paid £40k+ rather than 20k+ don't you think? Have you also seen some of the approach plates that Ryan use to let down into unheard of airports? Certain to put hairs on your chest.
Flybe can't take too many in-experienced FO's to cover these leavers and I believe that the CAA would stop Flybe from having such an unbalanced airline in terms of experience levels.
So, if Flybe have all these Embraer's arriving, who is going to fly them. Who is going to leave where to join Flybe? I'd love to know?
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I know of one such scheme, although it is even better for someone like you, as you can actually PAY to work. It is called a SSTR, with a payment for your line training also.
What's more, once you have done this, you can even work for a REDUCED SALARY for some airlines, maybe having to take home no more than £2-3000 for your first six months. Should be right up your street!
If this is a wind up however, then well done - I have been wound!
What's more, once you have done this, you can even work for a REDUCED SALARY for some airlines, maybe having to take home no more than £2-3000 for your first six months. Should be right up your street!
If this is a wind up however, then well done - I have been wound!