Balpa Employment Opportunities Conf 2005
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Xenophobia (noun): Fear and contempt of strangers or foreign peoples.
Note that xenophobia does not imply racism. It is simply an unreasonable fear of foreigners. Wingbar's rant was xenophobic, and was an inappropriate attempt to turn this thread into a political argument about foreigners working in UK. There are more appropriate places to do this, and Pprune will not be party to it. EU nationals are as legally entitled to work in UK as any other EU country. That is the law, and it is outside BALPA's mandate or competency to attempt to change that fact.
If you wish to make a political stand about the issue, there are ways and means of doing so. This is not the place.
Scroggs
Note that xenophobia does not imply racism. It is simply an unreasonable fear of foreigners. Wingbar's rant was xenophobic, and was an inappropriate attempt to turn this thread into a political argument about foreigners working in UK. There are more appropriate places to do this, and Pprune will not be party to it. EU nationals are as legally entitled to work in UK as any other EU country. That is the law, and it is outside BALPA's mandate or competency to attempt to change that fact.
If you wish to make a political stand about the issue, there are ways and means of doing so. This is not the place.
Scroggs
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Near EGCC
Age: 41
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scroggs, there was no political agenda in my posting , I can at least promise you that.
As for Xenaphobia, I can say that I'm not really afraid of foreigners.
In proof of this; I drive a foreign car, and I have a world wide music taste, and have been known on occasion to have Italian girlfirends, but now, that was many moons ago. - But may give you a clue as to what I was getting at in the post you deleted regarding the BALPA ('BRITISH' airline pilots association EOC last year...)
Would it not, in light of your wonderful knowledge of EU be useful for a regarded professional like you to mention to BALPA, (I'm a member by the way) how they could improve their operation? Certailnly somebody of your calibre could help us in this.
Scroggs, what I am asking of you, is, can you help us, and, talk to Balpa? Try and raise our profile in the industry, let Balpa know about the truths of flight training costs and how we feel, as the new generation of future airline pilots , we're pretty much abandoned...I have even had to conceal the fact that I trained to be a pilot, because I couldn't even get a crummy job, they all said, oh well you'll be off the first sign of a flying job...we don't want you.
All of these issues are real, and ones which Balpa don't want to get involved in.
Many of my friends have received hostile remarks when commenting to Balpa about such issues, one friend in particular was told his £2/month membership wasn't worth tupence! - Now £2 a year 2006 could easily be £4/5000/pa ++ in a few years time, but they just don't realise that concept.
Please Scroggs I extol you to help us, I know you can if you will....please...
As for Xenaphobia, I can say that I'm not really afraid of foreigners.
In proof of this; I drive a foreign car, and I have a world wide music taste, and have been known on occasion to have Italian girlfirends, but now, that was many moons ago. - But may give you a clue as to what I was getting at in the post you deleted regarding the BALPA ('BRITISH' airline pilots association EOC last year...)
Would it not, in light of your wonderful knowledge of EU be useful for a regarded professional like you to mention to BALPA, (I'm a member by the way) how they could improve their operation? Certailnly somebody of your calibre could help us in this.
Scroggs, what I am asking of you, is, can you help us, and, talk to Balpa? Try and raise our profile in the industry, let Balpa know about the truths of flight training costs and how we feel, as the new generation of future airline pilots , we're pretty much abandoned...I have even had to conceal the fact that I trained to be a pilot, because I couldn't even get a crummy job, they all said, oh well you'll be off the first sign of a flying job...we don't want you.
All of these issues are real, and ones which Balpa don't want to get involved in.
Many of my friends have received hostile remarks when commenting to Balpa about such issues, one friend in particular was told his £2/month membership wasn't worth tupence! - Now £2 a year 2006 could easily be £4/5000/pa ++ in a few years time, but they just don't realise that concept.
Please Scroggs I extol you to help us, I know you can if you will....please...
Last edited by wingbar; 28th Mar 2006 at 16:29.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wingbar I am not supprised you got reports of hostile behaviour when commenting on moving the status quo in training.
Who do you think are the people who make the policy within BALPA regards training etc?
Its the same old farts or friends of the old farts who have most to loose if it changes.
The market is changing whatever these people want to believe. I suspect they are hanging on by the skin of thier teeth to the historic advantage they used to have. The current change with the 3 big intergrated schools show this. Trying to claw back some of the modular market which they were quite happy to ignore in the past.
To be honest and its only a personal opinion BALPA has very little to offer any wannabie or commercial pilot outside BA unless the are operating in a PIC capacity. And your not really joining the union as such you are buying legal insurance and there incident managing skills. The advice given will be very biased towards what a very few operators actually want or need. I suspect that some of the companys saying they would only take on intergrated students would be taking very few if any low hours guys any way. And given the choice would take a 1000+ TP FO not caring how they trained. And as such can be ignored.
The old problem of seeing people come into Britian must seem unfair when out of work. BUT the UK has been exporting workers of all types for years be it brickys in germany, pilots in Asia, IT contractors the world over. We generally fiddle and avoid all forms of tax and social obligation where ever we work. As a country we can't moan about the odd few using a right which they are intitled to getting a job in the UK.
Who do you think are the people who make the policy within BALPA regards training etc?
Its the same old farts or friends of the old farts who have most to loose if it changes.
The market is changing whatever these people want to believe. I suspect they are hanging on by the skin of thier teeth to the historic advantage they used to have. The current change with the 3 big intergrated schools show this. Trying to claw back some of the modular market which they were quite happy to ignore in the past.
To be honest and its only a personal opinion BALPA has very little to offer any wannabie or commercial pilot outside BA unless the are operating in a PIC capacity. And your not really joining the union as such you are buying legal insurance and there incident managing skills. The advice given will be very biased towards what a very few operators actually want or need. I suspect that some of the companys saying they would only take on intergrated students would be taking very few if any low hours guys any way. And given the choice would take a 1000+ TP FO not caring how they trained. And as such can be ignored.
The old problem of seeing people come into Britian must seem unfair when out of work. BUT the UK has been exporting workers of all types for years be it brickys in germany, pilots in Asia, IT contractors the world over. We generally fiddle and avoid all forms of tax and social obligation where ever we work. As a country we can't moan about the odd few using a right which they are intitled to getting a job in the UK.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wingbar and mad_jock, BALPA is many things to many people. What it is not, these days, is the British Airways Pilots' Association! BALPA is an extremely effective professional association, active in far more than just industrial relations and pilots' compensation. In my company, BALPA - through the Crew Committe, formed of line pilots - has made a huge difference to every area of our professional lives.
BALPA head office has a relatively small staff, and its primary role is to protect and enhance the professional integrity, terms of employment and technical expertise of the British commercial pilot. While it takes an interest in the state of the wannabe market, it is not particularly active in that field. BALPA works by enabling people in certain situations to help themselves. When Virgin turned its pilots' terms of employment around, it wasn't achieved by a SWAT team from BALPA coming in and doing the work for us; it was done by Virgin pilots doing the work themselves with expert advice from BALPA's paid help. If you want something to be done to improve the lot of the wannabe pilot, you have to do it yourselves. If you can convince BALPA of the justice and logic of your case, and the interest to the greater pilot community, they will give you some of the tools to do the job - but the work comes from you, no-one else.
Contact them, go and talk to them, find out what's been done before and what's being done now. Don't sit here moaning and expecting someone else to sort it out for you.
Scroggs
BALPA head office has a relatively small staff, and its primary role is to protect and enhance the professional integrity, terms of employment and technical expertise of the British commercial pilot. While it takes an interest in the state of the wannabe market, it is not particularly active in that field. BALPA works by enabling people in certain situations to help themselves. When Virgin turned its pilots' terms of employment around, it wasn't achieved by a SWAT team from BALPA coming in and doing the work for us; it was done by Virgin pilots doing the work themselves with expert advice from BALPA's paid help. If you want something to be done to improve the lot of the wannabe pilot, you have to do it yourselves. If you can convince BALPA of the justice and logic of your case, and the interest to the greater pilot community, they will give you some of the tools to do the job - but the work comes from you, no-one else.
Contact them, go and talk to them, find out what's been done before and what's being done now. Don't sit here moaning and expecting someone else to sort it out for you.
Scroggs
