Jobs following training with CABAIR
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Jobs following training with CABAIR
Hi there all!!
Just out of curiosity, are there any people on this forum who went to CABAIR to do an intergrated course??
If yes how long was it before you got a job?
Did they or do they give a lot of help in trying to get a job, such as OAT does?
Thanks
Just out of curiosity, are there any people on this forum who went to CABAIR to do an intergrated course??
If yes how long was it before you got a job?
Did they or do they give a lot of help in trying to get a job, such as OAT does?
Thanks
TightYorksherMan
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I know some people who were put forward from an integrated course to BA, BA Citiexpress and Flybe, I also know others who havent
I was modular so didnt stand a chance!
I was modular so didnt stand a chance!
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Some of the bias towards integrated students tends to come from the airlines themselves. They ring up and specifically ask for these students. There is no easy way round this unfortunately. If an airline asks for 10 candidates for example they generally pick a mixture of modular and integrated students, on the basis of good exam results, or flight training or suitability for the airline concerned. I would think the system is the same at OAT and all the other FTOs. I did a modular course and was put forward with a mixture of other modular and integrated guys.
The only real suggestion i have is to try and work hard, keep your head down and make sure you get on with people. In my experience the people put forward have a good training record, turn up on time, are easy to get on with ( this doesn't mean you have to be a pushover!) and most importantly keep in touch with the FTO. With the best will in the world an FTO can't keep in touch with every ex-student, so make sure you show your face on occasions (not so much you p*** them off), update them with your cv ( they often send the most recent only) and make the people in admin your best friends. They often control the main diary of events and know when airline reps are coming, and with a bit of luck you can have your freshly printed cv on the right desk at the right time.
One last thing, i used to put on my cv that i had completed an approved course of training. This appeared to remove the problem of modular versus integrated sufficiently. I also never brought the issue up in interview as most of the people who read cvs and do the first stage of interviews work in HR and don't really understand the difference anyway.
The only real suggestion i have is to try and work hard, keep your head down and make sure you get on with people. In my experience the people put forward have a good training record, turn up on time, are easy to get on with ( this doesn't mean you have to be a pushover!) and most importantly keep in touch with the FTO. With the best will in the world an FTO can't keep in touch with every ex-student, so make sure you show your face on occasions (not so much you p*** them off), update them with your cv ( they often send the most recent only) and make the people in admin your best friends. They often control the main diary of events and know when airline reps are coming, and with a bit of luck you can have your freshly printed cv on the right desk at the right time.
One last thing, i used to put on my cv that i had completed an approved course of training. This appeared to remove the problem of modular versus integrated sufficiently. I also never brought the issue up in interview as most of the people who read cvs and do the first stage of interviews work in HR and don't really understand the difference anyway.
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Cabair
At Cabair they have BA, BACE and Flybe who they put forward candidates to. No other Airlines! Of these you need to for BA get 85% or more average first time passes in exams and c or above in flight tests. I think I am right in saying that if you fail more than one flight test then it's a no! BACE work along the same margins and Flybe tend to look at who ever is put forward. As with all establishments of this type, if your face fits and you don't complain, play the grey man and achieve these results then you are put forward. Only integrated are put forward for BA mainline but both modular and integrated are put forward for the other two. Of these as far as I have seen the modular guys are on an even footing with the Integrated and have often gained a job with BACE and Flybe. Unfortunately if you dont achieve these marks, slip up on one to many flight tests, have a 2nd or 3rd attempt at the IR, don't pass all your exams first time then you whon't be put forward. In fact I know of a modular guy recently put forward to Eastern who got the job above some integrated guys, it's just what the Airline is looking for. On top of these academic reasons Cabair has it's favourites and it's not so favourites. If you want to go there and eat humble pie, not complain when the aircraft go tech every day, or when you can't get in the sim for foreign sponsored students then work hard and integrated or modular you should find yourself put forward. If you do tend to air your views and have an opinion that some of the management whon't like then be prepared not to get any help it's as simple as that. In my humble opinion if you rely on the FTO to get you an interview then you don't deserve it. If you say integrated are put forward at Cabair and Modular are not then you are wrong. I didn't get any help from Cabair after finishing as I didn't meet the BA criteria and did have some 'discussions' with the management but that's fine as far as I am concerned. To me it was better as I left I didn't waist time trying to get them to put me forward. Instead I approached the airlines and as a result am awaiting base training on a heavy Jet with some 'modular' guys! As a matter of interest though I know of two cases personally where the Cabair students were supposedly put forward by Cabair to one of there few Airlines and they were told that they weren't good enough. These said students then applied directly to this airline and both secured interviews on there results, funny that!
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Cabair
Even though you do the same course, have the same instructors etc etc. Cabair still favour integrated students.
It is in their interests to make sure integrated pilots get the jobs, because they need to attract integrated students, i.e £50k upfront!!
It has nothing to do with first time passes or your ATPL grades.
There is a bloke their called Tim who is heavily biased towards Integrated and does not even consider recommending Modular, regardless of ability.
I think in the last year they have recommended 3 modular students(excludes ex-instructors) compared with absolutely loads of integrated.
They will always say that the recommendations are based on ability, but lets get real, Cabair are a business 'an integrated business flying school'!!
Integrated...1st go to Oxford
Modular (the training from the instructors is excellent) but don't expect anything else, in fact this can work against you because some airlines will only take recommended pilots from the big schools, therefore if you are not recommended they think that you are below average!, when this of course is totally untrue. Its about time the airlines adopted their own recruitment criteria instead of relying upon a bloke with a chip on his shoulder because he got booted out as an airline pilot!)
It is in their interests to make sure integrated pilots get the jobs, because they need to attract integrated students, i.e £50k upfront!!
It has nothing to do with first time passes or your ATPL grades.
There is a bloke their called Tim who is heavily biased towards Integrated and does not even consider recommending Modular, regardless of ability.
I think in the last year they have recommended 3 modular students(excludes ex-instructors) compared with absolutely loads of integrated.
They will always say that the recommendations are based on ability, but lets get real, Cabair are a business 'an integrated business flying school'!!
Integrated...1st go to Oxford
Modular (the training from the instructors is excellent) but don't expect anything else, in fact this can work against you because some airlines will only take recommended pilots from the big schools, therefore if you are not recommended they think that you are below average!, when this of course is totally untrue. Its about time the airlines adopted their own recruitment criteria instead of relying upon a bloke with a chip on his shoulder because he got booted out as an airline pilot!)
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I heard about this guy Tim, anyone know why he got booted out. A friend of mine made a personal visit to Cabair, had a nice friendly chat and tour of the premises by Tim. Once he handed over the bucks and started the course he said that the office staff didn't give him any time, all the smiles had gone, they were far too busy
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Me Again
Don't think its fair to mention any names guys and I also think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. The person I as far as I'm aware is still at Cabair..as to his reasons for leaving the Airline Industry I'm not sure. Geting back to the original post I will say something further. Having left Cabair and completed a type rating you do get exposed to a lot of other pilots experiences and see how they were assisted if at all by FTO's. From what I have seen Oxford have by far the best connections and Jerez follow closely. Cabair don't even enter into the ball park. As an example, when I finished at Cabair I approached the 'Management' to look at self funding a type rating and what contacts they had with Gecat and Airlines such as Ryanair if I decided to go along that route. Not for the first time I was assured that they were as luck would have it due to see said airline next week and they would let me know. As expected the meetings never happened and no agreement was reached for Cabair to put forward candidates that could fund a type rating. Having spoken to Gecat and a number of other operations Oxford came out as the one that had actualy met with them, set up a sellection process that Airlines could trust and embarked on sending SSTR students to Gecat etc. These students then whent straight into the likes of BMI etc. Anyway, that's only my first hand experience hope it helps
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Tim is still at Cabair (unfortunately for all modular students), but he was 'apparently' booted out of an airline many years ago! So the rumour goes!
'Pressman' is a good example of their bias towards integrated. There are many many more like him!!
'Pressman' is a good example of their bias towards integrated. There are many many more like him!!
TightYorksherMan
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Well done Mr Mesh.
I myself am thinking of sitting back in a 152 for a few hundred hours after trying every airline under the sun earning money that way...
I think its reasonable to say that names shouldnt be mentioned here, especially names of staff.
I myself am thinking of sitting back in a 152 for a few hundred hours after trying every airline under the sun earning money that way...
I think its reasonable to say that names shouldnt be mentioned here, especially names of staff.
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TS is still at Cabair. He does put forward Mod students as well as Int. A mod student recently got a job with Loganair over several Int students.
Quite how Cabair pick and choose who goes forward however is another mystery!!
Equally they become far less interested in you once you stop paying them £££!!!
Quite how Cabair pick and choose who goes forward however is another mystery!!
Equally they become far less interested in you once you stop paying them £££!!!
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It does not matter what school or course you have completed, it is down to YOU to ensure that your name is in the mind of employers. Sure if you have done well at your course you would hope to be put forward by your collage if a airline asks them for names, but your name should be there before they have to do this.
I completed a self sponsored 509 course had a interveiw within 2 months and started within 4 months, my collage did supply a reference but only after the airline asked about me through my contact with them.
YOU are investing in your future, YOU must sell your self.
This will never stop YOU must perform in the type rating ground schoool, YOU must perform in the sim, YOU must completed the line training. YOU must make a good name for yourself in you empolyment and the industry.!!!
See the trend here it is all down to YOU and your drive to succeed.
All that said do try and get help and contacts where ever you can regardless how lose those contacts may be and good luck !!
I completed a self sponsored 509 course had a interveiw within 2 months and started within 4 months, my collage did supply a reference but only after the airline asked about me through my contact with them.
YOU are investing in your future, YOU must sell your self.
This will never stop YOU must perform in the type rating ground schoool, YOU must perform in the sim, YOU must completed the line training. YOU must make a good name for yourself in you empolyment and the industry.!!!
See the trend here it is all down to YOU and your drive to succeed.
All that said do try and get help and contacts where ever you can regardless how lose those contacts may be and good luck !!
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Flying Rat, I have included the modular student at Loganair in the 3 modular recommendations made in the last 12+ months by Cabair.
When you look at their adverts in Flight which say things like 'we have placed over 50 students with airlines in the last 12 months' this should give you a scale of how biased they are.
But the main problem is not if you are integrated or Modular. Cabair basically do not have many contacts with the airlines. take out of he equation flybe (& the few Kuwaites) and they would be scrapping around. They are the second or third choice for ba and bacx. After that they are struggling.
Also agree with above posting, but if only life was that simply! (its great in theory!)
When you look at their adverts in Flight which say things like 'we have placed over 50 students with airlines in the last 12 months' this should give you a scale of how biased they are.
But the main problem is not if you are integrated or Modular. Cabair basically do not have many contacts with the airlines. take out of he equation flybe (& the few Kuwaites) and they would be scrapping around. They are the second or third choice for ba and bacx. After that they are struggling.
Also agree with above posting, but if only life was that simply! (its great in theory!)
Last edited by mightymouse111; 31st Jan 2006 at 10:10.
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50+ candidates with airlines
I think that figure also includes the flybe sponsored students and probably the Royal Brunei also.
I was there last year and can only think of 4-6 people that were placed through them other than on a scheme already agreed upon.
I was there last year and can only think of 4-6 people that were placed through them other than on a scheme already agreed upon.
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mightymouse, I never said it was easy. But it is "how it is"
for most people that i have sat next to in both seats at the sharp end of big shiny airliners !!!.
Only offering my opinion as how to get on, if your waiting for others to do it for you, regardless of what they may say it could be a long wait. In most airlines what is said toay is out of date tommorrow, schools by their nature in the industry can be the same !!!!!
for most people that i have sat next to in both seats at the sharp end of big shiny airliners !!!.
Only offering my opinion as how to get on, if your waiting for others to do it for you, regardless of what they may say it could be a long wait. In most airlines what is said toay is out of date tommorrow, schools by their nature in the industry can be the same !!!!!
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Jinkster
If going Cabair modular put you outside FlyBe and Citiexpress recruitment then you went to the wrong place! They take on people who went to other modular schools. Even BA will accept modular graduates on an equal basis, as far as I am aware (although like FlyBe used to they ask for integrated - various reasons have been put forward, from being years out of date to thinning out CVs).
If going Cabair modular put you outside FlyBe and Citiexpress recruitment then you went to the wrong place! They take on people who went to other modular schools. Even BA will accept modular graduates on an equal basis, as far as I am aware (although like FlyBe used to they ask for integrated - various reasons have been put forward, from being years out of date to thinning out CVs).