some advice would really help
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some advice would really help
Hi first time here and looking for advice as i have tried for quite a while. I really need to be a commercial pilot and taking the RAF route is not for me as 12 years in the service is a hell of a long time. Can anyone tell me about airline sponsorship and if they know of any major airlines running these scemes? im 23 with moderate education and a desire to captain an airbus one day. Any advice would be much appreciated. many thanks
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Re: some advice would really help
Hi first time here and looking for advice as i have tried for quite a while. I really need to be a commercial pilot and taking the RAF route is not for me as 12 years in the service is a hell of a long time. Can anyone tell me about airline sponsorship and if they know of any major airlines running these scemes? im 23 with moderate education and a desire to captain an airbus one day. Any advice would be much appreciated. many thanks
Hmmmm - Fast Jet, 250ft and 480 kts. or Airbus
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Re: some advice would really help
Hiya,
I'm 24, recently graduated with an engineering degree, and am now pursuing a doctoral degree. The great thing for me personally is I'm doing a higher degree, I'm picking up an all-be-it modest £1300 after tax per month, and my research is mostly based on an aerospace project.
I've had people in the past say to me, "if you're not willing to take a loan out for 50K-60K to pay for your training, you obviously don't want it bad enough". Well that’s total
I have made the very difficult decision that the only way I am ever going to be able to pay for my flying training is if I go down the modular route. What I've known and accepted for a very long time now is that becoming an airline pilot can be one of the most challenging goals to achieve (mentally, physically and financially).
But what I will be able to say at the end of my training is that I have no debts! I know it’s going to take A LOT longer than going down the integrated route, but that’s the price I have accepted I have to pay.
There are many people on PPRuNe who are far more qualified to give advice than I, but personally I would apply to the CTC Wings scheme and the Air Atlantique Scheme (if you have a PPL, class 1, driving license etc), but start planning now to fund yourself. If you hang around for sponsorships, you could be waiting a long time before being accepted, and even then they require a fairly hefty financial contribution.
I also haven’t ruled out the Armed Forces. At 24 I'm too old for the RAF, but the RN and Army have higher age limits. After my PPL I'll be applying to those and see what happens.
Sorry for this epic post. But here’s one final piece of advice. Its great to have a goal i.e. Airbus Captain - but a lot of advice from the guys here has taught me that you have to be very open minded. Read the posts and you will see not many can afford to be picky in their early career. My motto is this "I'll fly anything, anytime, anywhere - as long as I had enough cash to survive on!".
Anyway, best of luck with the flying. I hope you’re successful.
All the best,
Steve.
I'm 24, recently graduated with an engineering degree, and am now pursuing a doctoral degree. The great thing for me personally is I'm doing a higher degree, I'm picking up an all-be-it modest £1300 after tax per month, and my research is mostly based on an aerospace project.
I've had people in the past say to me, "if you're not willing to take a loan out for 50K-60K to pay for your training, you obviously don't want it bad enough". Well that’s total
I have made the very difficult decision that the only way I am ever going to be able to pay for my flying training is if I go down the modular route. What I've known and accepted for a very long time now is that becoming an airline pilot can be one of the most challenging goals to achieve (mentally, physically and financially). But what I will be able to say at the end of my training is that I have no debts! I know it’s going to take A LOT longer than going down the integrated route, but that’s the price I have accepted I have to pay.
There are many people on PPRuNe who are far more qualified to give advice than I, but personally I would apply to the CTC Wings scheme and the Air Atlantique Scheme (if you have a PPL, class 1, driving license etc), but start planning now to fund yourself. If you hang around for sponsorships, you could be waiting a long time before being accepted, and even then they require a fairly hefty financial contribution.
I also haven’t ruled out the Armed Forces. At 24 I'm too old for the RAF, but the RN and Army have higher age limits. After my PPL I'll be applying to those and see what happens.
Sorry for this epic post. But here’s one final piece of advice. Its great to have a goal i.e. Airbus Captain - but a lot of advice from the guys here has taught me that you have to be very open minded. Read the posts and you will see not many can afford to be picky in their early career. My motto is this "I'll fly anything, anytime, anywhere - as long as I had enough cash to survive on!".
Anyway, best of luck with the flying. I hope you’re successful.
All the best,
Steve.
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Re: some advice would really help
I also haven’t ruled out the Armed Forces. At 24 I'm too old for the RAF, but the RN and Army have higher age limits. After my PPL I'll be applying to those and see what happens.
The Army is a totally different matter. Firstly you have to pass the RCB and go to Sandhurst - at the end of Sandhurst you are selected by a Regiment. AAC is by far the most popular so there are no guarantees.
Finally, you don't need a PPL for any of the options. It is of no advantage what so ever.
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Re: some advice would really help
Thanks guys for the help. Im gonna try CTC and Air Atlantique and see what comes up. 
. An airbus may be the sky equivelent of a london bus but is somewhat appealing to me. The modular route is an option. My late father was a captain for some commercial airlines and frankly the thought of any other job seems depressingly boring. Thanks again for all the great advice (more is welcome ) ps i will let you know what route i find myself taking.
. An airbus may be the sky equivelent of a london bus but is somewhat appealing to me. The modular route is an option. My late father was a captain for some commercial airlines and frankly the thought of any other job seems depressingly boring. Thanks again for all the great advice (more is welcome ) ps i will let you know what route i find myself taking.
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Re: some advice would really help
The Army is a totally different matter. Firstly you have to pass the RCB and go to Sandhurst - at the end of Sandhurst you are selected by a Regiment. AAC is by far the most popular so there are no guarantees.
Hmmmm - Fast Jet, 250ft and 480 kts. or Airbus
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Re: some advice would really help
Not quite true, but fairly accurate. You do indeed have to pass RCB but may well get sponsored by the AAC prior to Sandhurst. If this is the case you will have to complete their aptitude screening and grading course. The benefit of this though is that you can complete Sandhurst safe in the knowledge that you will go flying thereafter.
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Re: some advice would really help
UberPilot If your information about the Army is as accurate as your information about the RAF, I would advise readers to take it with a large pinch of salt! In any case, information provided secondhand ('I have a friend...') is notoriously unreliable.
The minimum length of pilot commission in the RAF is indeed 12 years, as swallowtail suggests. Within that 12 years, there may be (for some people) an option to leave earlier. Please see the RAF Careers website for more information.
Scroggs
The minimum length of pilot commission in the RAF is indeed 12 years, as swallowtail suggests. Within that 12 years, there may be (for some people) an option to leave earlier. Please see the RAF Careers website for more information.
Scroggs
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Re: some advice would really help
UberPilot If your information about the Army is as accurate as your information about the RAF, I would advise readers to take it with a large pinch of salt! In any case, information provided secondhand ('I have a friend...') is notoriously unreliable.
The minimum length of pilot commission in the RAF is indeed 12 years, as swallowtail suggests. Within that 12 years, there may be (for some people) an option to leave earlier. Please see the RAF Careers website for more information.
Scroggs
The minimum length of pilot commission in the RAF is indeed 12 years, as swallowtail suggests. Within that 12 years, there may be (for some people) an option to leave earlier. Please see the RAF Careers website for more information.
Scroggs
That's a rather harsh comment.
I don't know if you're forces or ex, but as someone who has recently completed selection for Pilot in the RAF, and about to start IOT, I can tell you that when at OASC, I, along with many others, was advised that Short Service Commissions (SSC) for Pilot are virtually non-existant due to the curent backlog of holding Pilots and current holding periods etc (With current holds meaning that going from IOT to Fast Jet Combat Ready taking up to 4-5 years, you'll see that on a SSC the RAF don't actually get that much productive service out of you). It may not say this on the Careers website, but in reality Pilots are only being offered Permenant Commissions (PC) which now extend to the 18/40 point. WSO's (Navs), on the other hand, are only being offered SSC's due to the uncertainty of the branch's future / reduction in numbers etc. However, the only way you'll get a definitive answer is to apply and see what happens. If you're an outstanding candidate you might get a SSC as Pilot. Finally, I would question anyone whose to join the Armed Forces for the minimum period possible is to simply get an ATPL (which isn't actually simple anyway!).
As regards the AAC - One of my best mates from University is sponsored by the Regiment thorugh his application process. Now, having met the AAC Recruitment Liaison Officer aswell, I'm simply repeating what I was told, here is Army recruiting (Officer) route. Firstly, contact the AFCO and show an interest. Go on the Fam vist to SAAvN at Middle Wallop and have an informal interview / see if you fit in night at the bar. If offered sponsorship you go to RCB Brief and RCB sponsored by the Regt. If you pass the RCB Main Board then you go to Wallop to complete flying Grading. If you pass grading and subsequent Aircrew medical you go into the pot of eligible candidates. Any previously unsponsored candidates who show an interest whilst at Sandhurst then complete grading in the first period of leave. Nothing then happend until Week 32 when Regimental Interviews take place. Now, of course having shown an interest before in the Regt helps, but as I stated before, sponsorship does not guarantee a place in the Regiment, nor does it for any Regiment. They will take the best poeple from Sandhurst that they can and are heavily over subscribed.
However, for anyone interested in pusuing a career in Army Aviation, or any other Military flying, just apply and see how you get on.
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Re: some advice would really help
Uberpilot,
As an Army Officer who left this year from flying duties, I must inform you that what you are saying is only slightly true but has many holes.
It is true to say that a sponsored individual who does not make Sandhurst will not go on to flying - they will not go on, but they are selected on provisional basis prior to joining RMAS. Everyone at Sandhurst must be sponsored.
It is true to say that non sponsored individuals who attend Sandhurst and express a desire to join can apply, but this is very much the exception rather than the norm. They will only be taken if there is a space in that individuals year of birth or at a stretch one year either side.
It is not true that Aptitude and grading form merely a pool of suitable pilots. Those who pass the above and go on to pass Sandhurst will start pilot training. It is a very expensive business to select and test but never use individuals. Starting pilot training does not mean you will finish!
The numbers taken will reflect the demographics required for that year. I would suggest that out of 300 cadets, the AAC take approx 6. The remainder are made up from people transferring from other Regiments post Sandhurst and of course the Non commissioned ranks.
May I politely suggest that if you are not military or ex military, please temper you reply accordingly as you could mislead people at a very important stage of their career. If you are military, may I suggets you gen up on the arms and services before spouting crud.
Swallowtail. It is quite acceptable to join the Army as a pilot and do as little as 5 years flying. Do please bare in mind though that in those 5 years you may only amass a 1000 or so hours.
As an Army Officer who left this year from flying duties, I must inform you that what you are saying is only slightly true but has many holes.
It is true to say that a sponsored individual who does not make Sandhurst will not go on to flying - they will not go on, but they are selected on provisional basis prior to joining RMAS. Everyone at Sandhurst must be sponsored.
It is true to say that non sponsored individuals who attend Sandhurst and express a desire to join can apply, but this is very much the exception rather than the norm. They will only be taken if there is a space in that individuals year of birth or at a stretch one year either side.
It is not true that Aptitude and grading form merely a pool of suitable pilots. Those who pass the above and go on to pass Sandhurst will start pilot training. It is a very expensive business to select and test but never use individuals. Starting pilot training does not mean you will finish!
The numbers taken will reflect the demographics required for that year. I would suggest that out of 300 cadets, the AAC take approx 6. The remainder are made up from people transferring from other Regiments post Sandhurst and of course the Non commissioned ranks.
May I politely suggest that if you are not military or ex military, please temper you reply accordingly as you could mislead people at a very important stage of their career. If you are military, may I suggets you gen up on the arms and services before spouting crud.
Swallowtail. It is quite acceptable to join the Army as a pilot and do as little as 5 years flying. Do please bare in mind though that in those 5 years you may only amass a 1000 or so hours.
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Re: some advice would really help
woof
Thanks for putting me straight. I'm not military yet, but will be in a few weeks.
So, am I correct in understanding that if you pass grading and then go on to complete Sandhurst that you will definitely start flying training? I ask only as this is not the impression given. Finally, is there a difference bewteen being offered the chance to complete grading and full regimental sponsorship?
Thanks
P.S. Sorry for attempting to spread partially duff gen - lesson learned
Thanks for putting me straight. I'm not military yet, but will be in a few weeks.
So, am I correct in understanding that if you pass grading and then go on to complete Sandhurst that you will definitely start flying training? I ask only as this is not the impression given. Finally, is there a difference bewteen being offered the chance to complete grading and full regimental sponsorship?
Thanks
P.S. Sorry for attempting to spread partially duff gen - lesson learned
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Re: some advice would really help
Still think it was harsh?
Yes, I am ex-RAF - 22 years of flying, mostly C130s but also instructing on UAS, and thus involved in recruiting. My profile tells you most of that...
As for current service engagement lengths, don't make the mistake of assuming that immediate bottlenecks in training and IPS* figures mean that recruiting will be affected for evermore. These problems are transitory, and go with being an organisation at the whim of political masters. They have been endured before and will again. The RAF continue to offer SSCs to most Officer Branch applicants. Whether they take any in a particular month is neither here nor there, they remain available.
As for the motivation of someone wishing to join for 12 years before moving on to a civil aviation career, that is exactly the reason for the existance of the SSC: in recognition that not every potential officer (of any branch) sees the Services as a lifetime option, and may wish to complete the rest of their working lives elsewhere. That does not imply that their motivation while in the Service is lacking.
Scroggs
* IPS = Into Productive Service.
Yes, I am ex-RAF - 22 years of flying, mostly C130s but also instructing on UAS, and thus involved in recruiting. My profile tells you most of that...
As for current service engagement lengths, don't make the mistake of assuming that immediate bottlenecks in training and IPS* figures mean that recruiting will be affected for evermore. These problems are transitory, and go with being an organisation at the whim of political masters. They have been endured before and will again. The RAF continue to offer SSCs to most Officer Branch applicants. Whether they take any in a particular month is neither here nor there, they remain available.
As for the motivation of someone wishing to join for 12 years before moving on to a civil aviation career, that is exactly the reason for the existance of the SSC: in recognition that not every potential officer (of any branch) sees the Services as a lifetime option, and may wish to complete the rest of their working lives elsewhere. That does not imply that their motivation while in the Service is lacking.
Scroggs
* IPS = Into Productive Service.
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Re: some advice would really help
Deary me chaps.. this post seems to be going into orbit it is so far off course!
I have a great respect for the armed forces so this tangent does not bother me in the slightest.. I find it quite interesting. Interesting to here the Fleet Air Arm 'may' be reducing their age to 24.. use to be 26 in my day
. Wish they would both lower their standards for eye sight, if only, for those blind as a bat like me!
Anyway back to swallowtail's post shall we: he has made it quite clear they wish not to pursue a career with the Armed Forces.. which is wise as you would be a fool going into such a profession just so you could become an airline pilot later on in life!
CTC and Air Atlantique as mentioned before, also GAPAN.. they offer 1/2 scholarships. FlyBE God bless 'em offer 4/6 sponsorships every year.. next selection will be in September I think. Try Flight International or ask Cabair direct. Thomsonfly just took on some cadets? Thomas Cook as well? Also sure GB Airways did something? Try BALPA they will be able to give some guidance. Do an internet search. KLM UK used to do an instructor sponsorship.. don't think that would be any use to you, but ask around. Just for the record you will need to put your hand in your pocket at some point, be it through a loan organised via the sponsoring party.
Just on a minor point, after you have experienced the thrill of flying.. you may wish to reconsider your aim to be an Airbus Captain (excluding the 300/310), the Boeing is well known as a much more enjoyable ride. All experienced pilots who I have spoken to, most now flying the 737, prefer the Boeings they have flown to the A320 family and the A340. I certainly am happy sitting where I do (with a great big fat yoke between my legs )
I will probably get some Airbus pilots cursing me now saying how much they enjoy their machine.. so.. I will run and hide
Good luck with the sponsorships, hope it works out
747 Downwind
I have a great respect for the armed forces so this tangent does not bother me in the slightest.. I find it quite interesting. Interesting to here the Fleet Air Arm 'may' be reducing their age to 24.. use to be 26 in my day
. Wish they would both lower their standards for eye sight, if only, for those blind as a bat like me!Anyway back to swallowtail's post shall we: he has made it quite clear they wish not to pursue a career with the Armed Forces.. which is wise as you would be a fool going into such a profession just so you could become an airline pilot later on in life!
CTC and Air Atlantique as mentioned before, also GAPAN.. they offer 1/2 scholarships. FlyBE God bless 'em offer 4/6 sponsorships every year.. next selection will be in September I think. Try Flight International or ask Cabair direct. Thomsonfly just took on some cadets? Thomas Cook as well? Also sure GB Airways did something? Try BALPA they will be able to give some guidance. Do an internet search. KLM UK used to do an instructor sponsorship.. don't think that would be any use to you, but ask around. Just for the record you will need to put your hand in your pocket at some point, be it through a loan organised via the sponsoring party.
Just on a minor point, after you have experienced the thrill of flying.. you may wish to reconsider your aim to be an Airbus Captain (excluding the 300/310), the Boeing is well known as a much more enjoyable ride. All experienced pilots who I have spoken to, most now flying the 737, prefer the Boeings they have flown to the A320 family and the A340. I certainly am happy sitting where I do (with a great big fat yoke between my legs
)I will probably get some Airbus pilots cursing me now saying how much they enjoy their machine.. so.. I will run and hide
Good luck with the sponsorships, hope it works out
747 Downwind
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Re: some advice would really help
Thread creep is one of the delights of Ppruning! It'll never go away...
As an example, we now have the introduction of Airboos v Boing on a thread asking about sponsorships. Who bowled that googly? Why, yourself 747
Actually, the original question was answered adequately, if briefly, in the second post on the thread. Only then did the discussion develop around the military flying tangent. Hey, at least he got an answer!
Scroggs
As an example, we now have the introduction of Airboos v Boing on a thread asking about sponsorships. Who bowled that googly? Why, yourself 747
Actually, the original question was answered adequately, if briefly, in the second post on the thread. Only then did the discussion develop around the military flying tangent. Hey, at least he got an answer!
Scroggs
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Re: some advice would really help
Deleted As The Message Was Posted By A Very Wrong Person.. Not Me
Last edited by pilot-320; 3rd Oct 2006 at 13:43. Reason: WRONG PERSON
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I contacted the Royal Navy with regard to the age limit being reduced. This is their reply:
Subject: Re: Officer aircrew upper age limit
From: "oclclondon" <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, January 19, 2006 2:53 pm
To: "Steve Grice" <[email protected]>
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version
"Thank you for your email
The upper age limit is still 26 and is not being looked at to be decreased
Hope this helps
Regards"
This is just to confirm to others who may be interested in the RN.
Subject: Re: Officer aircrew upper age limit
From: "oclclondon" <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, January 19, 2006 2:53 pm
To: "Steve Grice" <[email protected]>
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version
"Thank you for your email
The upper age limit is still 26 and is not being looked at to be decreased
Hope this helps
Regards"
This is just to confirm to others who may be interested in the RN.