Confirmation please regarding JAR regulation

[jjp_be]

Hi,

I have a JAR CPL (fATPL), ME-IR, MCC and 500 hrs TT.

I would like to do a typerating on a Singlepilot certified aircraft of more than 12500LBS (>5700KG). However, the aircraft will be operated multi crew, commercially.
My question is: Can I do the typerating as pilot in command or can I only do it as First officer due to the licence I have (CPL) and the total flight time 500 hrs. ( Does a typerating F/O exist on a single pilot certified aircraft?)

What I understand from the JAR is that I can do the typerating as PIC with my CPL and that I can fly this aircraft with my CPL as pilot in command only if this aircraft is single pilot operated. If the plane is operated multi crew and commercially, I only can fly it as a F/O (even with a PIC rating) until I have my 1500 hrs and until I obtain my ATPL. (because the aircraft exceeds the 12500 lbs or 5700 KG)
Am I right?

Can somebody explain or confirm please?

Thank you very much,
jp

[FlyingForFun]

This is something which is regularly done in my company, but not by me.

My understanding is that you can do the single-pilot type rating, after which you can operate the aircraft either single-pilot, or, if multi-pilot, either P2 or (and this is the only bit I think you've got wrong) P1.

That's just my understanding from speaking to the pilots who do this, though. I've got a couple of days off work now, but if you don't have a definitive answer by Thursday I'll try to find out for certain.

FFF
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[south coast]

hi there, are you talking about a 1900 by any chance?

i would say, since it is certified as a single pilot plane, it can be commanded by a cpl holder even if flown with 2 pilots.

i did it that way on my cpl, all be it not a jar licence, which i subsequently completed and have used those hours as the 500 hours multi pilot time, according to LASORS they can be on a single pilot plane operate by 2 under national law.

but then again, i am not a lawyer, and that is what you need to be do understand caa regulations...

[ATP_Al]

If you have a look in LASORS, you will find that ALL JAR type ratings issued/recognised by the CAA are full pilot-in-command ratings. Co-pilot ratings are only issued and recognised by certain countries.

As for your other questions you only need an ATPL to command a multi pilot aeroplane. This means one that is certified for operation by a minimum of two pilots. A single pilot aeroplane flown multi crew is still a single pilot aeroplane, so you should be able to fly as captain on your CPL.

As far as I understand it the MTOW of the aircraft is irrelevant. JAR OPS 1 and the CAA say that all jets, and turboprops with an approved seating capacity of more the 9, must be flown multi crew when operating for public transport even if the aircraft was originally certified single pilot.

If in doubt check with LASORS, JAR OPS or the CAA.

Hope that helps,

Al

[mad_jock]

There is some funny rules about logging hours as well.

Even if you are type rated etc if you are acting as second pilot you can't log the hours in a Single pilot type rated machine without permission of the CAA.

[jjp_be]

Hi,

Thank you for your comments.
If a single pilot aircraft (which is single pilot certified by the manufacturer) needs to be operated multi crew due to the kind of operation (operating for public transport) and which is indicated, if i am not wrong in the operators certificate, than the aircraft become a multi pilot aircraft and is not a single pilot aircraft anymore?

Am I wrong

jp

[jjp_be]

But if the plane is multi pilot operated (multi pilot ops) you can log the P2 hours or not?

[mad_jock]

Depends on the CAA.

Some companys have permission and some don't. It all depends on the spirt of the way the OPS manuals are written and the instrument fit in the aircraft. And of course the company has to be bothered enough to actually apply for the waver. I am sure that some are logging the hours without the permission.

[FlyingForFun]

Jp,

I have checked with the people in the know, and I apologise, because I was wrong and you are correct.

You may fly single-pilot as P1.

Multi-pilot, you are either P2, or, if you are acting as Captain under the supervision of the Captain, you can log it as P1US (in which case the hours count as P1 even though you were not actually the Captain). But to fly as P1, multi-crew, you need an ATPL. So it is no different from any other multi-crew aircraft in that respect.

Sorry for the duff info!

FFF
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[jjp_be]

So all the P2 hours flown on a single pilot certified aircraft but multi crew operated can be logged as P2 and count towards the multi pilot time requirement for the ATPL.

Is it allowed to fly as a co-pilot on such aircraft multi pilot operated with a P1 typerating. I know that some people do but isn't it that, on multi crew aircraft, a captain can only fly as a copilot if he is an instructor( training captain), ...
I am wondering if this is also the case for the single pilot certified but multi crew operated aircraft.

Thank you very much for all your help

Regards,
jp

[Keygrip]

jp - you've committed a cardinal sin (which is fairly understandable in your early days of Ppruning).

The rules of engagement of Pprune include;

One subject = one posting = one forum.

I've just noticed that you are running this same question on (at least) both the Pro Training and Interviews and Jobs forums.

It's not fair to the people who bother to spend their time trying to offer you help and answer your question(s) - when they find out that it's already been done by somebody else, on a different forum.

Let any of the mods know which one you would like to keep active - then we'll unlock them again.

<<edit: Job done. Don't worry, jp, we've all been there. Happy Ppruning.>>