Why do airlines 'sponsor'?
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Why do airlines 'sponsor'?
May seem like a silly question, but....
With reference to the recent Thomas Cook and Excel sponsorships conducted through Oxford, why do airlines choose to sponsor?
There are pilots, either just qualified with an fATPL, or at the other end of the spectrum, with a few thousand hours that would apply for a position with such an airline.
So why do the airlines choose to bypass already qualified pilots; what exactly are the advantages to the airline?
POL
With reference to the recent Thomas Cook and Excel sponsorships conducted through Oxford, why do airlines choose to sponsor?
There are pilots, either just qualified with an fATPL, or at the other end of the spectrum, with a few thousand hours that would apply for a position with such an airline.
So why do the airlines choose to bypass already qualified pilots; what exactly are the advantages to the airline?
POL
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I presume its so the airline can train the guys their way. They know they are going to get the best academic guys, which i suppose means they are more likely to learn quickly and pass all the exams first time with a pretty good average.
Its also an investment for them, as sponsorship does not mean sponsorship anymore. The guys that are doing the excel course are having to cough up over £60,000 i believe. You are basically paying to get a job at the end of it. All the airline is doing is paying for your TR and getting you bonded for 6 years !!!!
I would, however, say that it is still the best way (and one of the only ones) to train and get a job on a decent size jet !!!!
Its also an investment for them, as sponsorship does not mean sponsorship anymore. The guys that are doing the excel course are having to cough up over £60,000 i believe. You are basically paying to get a job at the end of it. All the airline is doing is paying for your TR and getting you bonded for 6 years !!!!
I would, however, say that it is still the best way (and one of the only ones) to train and get a job on a decent size jet !!!!
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So why do the airlines choose to bypass already qualified pilots
In a way, the airlines in question are hedging their bets against a job-market where the power swings back towards the employees at some point in the future. Their newly qualified cadets won't expect a command for another 5-7 years, maybe more, whereas the 3000hr guy is gonna jump ship if the market picks up and he thinks a command is 5 years off.
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TenAndie,
As I understood it, the lucky individuals will not be required to cough up £60,000 per say but a special loan will be arranged for them from HSBC for up to £60k. Upon employment, the airline will begin paying back the loan on behalf of the new pilot. Obviously, the sponsored pilot will be on a lower salary compared to a Direct Entry FO. A good guess would be about £10k less. Thus for over 5 years each of the sponsored pilots will have earned £50k less. However if you look at the other aspects, mainly the type rating (value circa £25,000) and the interest that will have been accumulated on the loan (around £25,000), you can clearly see that the sponsoring airlines are still investing around £50k in the sponsored individuals. Or have I got it totally wrong?
I quote: “Under a special Cadet First Officer salary programme, over the first 5 years of employment EA will repay the major element of the graduate’s APP training and associated costs. The effect of this ‘repayment’ arrangement will be that graduates will achieve a significant financial benefit compared to the more usual situation of repaying training costs out of a normal first officer salary.”
I suppose the issue here is what exactly is the “major” element. Would be interested to here other views/theories!
As I understood it, the lucky individuals will not be required to cough up £60,000 per say but a special loan will be arranged for them from HSBC for up to £60k. Upon employment, the airline will begin paying back the loan on behalf of the new pilot. Obviously, the sponsored pilot will be on a lower salary compared to a Direct Entry FO. A good guess would be about £10k less. Thus for over 5 years each of the sponsored pilots will have earned £50k less. However if you look at the other aspects, mainly the type rating (value circa £25,000) and the interest that will have been accumulated on the loan (around £25,000), you can clearly see that the sponsoring airlines are still investing around £50k in the sponsored individuals. Or have I got it totally wrong?
I quote: “Under a special Cadet First Officer salary programme, over the first 5 years of employment EA will repay the major element of the graduate’s APP training and associated costs. The effect of this ‘repayment’ arrangement will be that graduates will achieve a significant financial benefit compared to the more usual situation of repaying training costs out of a normal first officer salary.”
I suppose the issue here is what exactly is the “major” element. Would be interested to here other views/theories!
Last edited by Superpilot; 15th Sep 2005 at 10:30.
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it is for tax reduction only!(depend of the country)
do you think they really care of a 0 hours pilot?and taking the risk that the student can not finish his training.
the first day they train you as a student, they have tax reduction.
do you think they really care of a 0 hours pilot?and taking the risk that the student can not finish his training.
the first day they train you as a student, they have tax reduction.
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Tax reduction or not! Sponsorship is crazy in todays world. They could easily recruit qualified pilots who are unemployed and train them in their methods (hence line training!!). This way the airline will save £50,000 per student.
20 students= 1 million £££
Why do airlines make a loss? cos they are stupid!!!
20 students= 1 million £££
Why do airlines make a loss? cos they are stupid!!!
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I agree, and for all that b****** about trained their way, what a load of rubbish, these students go to exactly the same training providers as the rest of us, Cabair, Oxford, Jerez etc...
The only time the airline have even the remotest infuence in the training of the 'cadet' is when they are in line training, or maybe at the type rating stage, but up to that point, both non- sponsored and sponsored offer the same deal, in terms of license!!!
Now, there is a difference, we (unsponsored) are a damn site cheaper!!! And indeed, it is a wonder airlines survive whilst they are busy taking people off the street with 0 hours having never even before shown a cent worth of interest in the profession at all, in fact the bulk of whom, when you speak to them, just say, "well, I just fancied it, bit of status, money" How naive they really are, some actually, do so badly that the airline pull out. - I know of a few that fell foul of that one....
Also now, as the industry is, we, (self sponsored, broke, dole queing wasters) have another layer of airlines self-induced competition, which seems pointless, and financially doesn't make an ounce of sense!
This industry...... arrrrrgghhhh!
WB
The only time the airline have even the remotest infuence in the training of the 'cadet' is when they are in line training, or maybe at the type rating stage, but up to that point, both non- sponsored and sponsored offer the same deal, in terms of license!!!
Now, there is a difference, we (unsponsored) are a damn site cheaper!!! And indeed, it is a wonder airlines survive whilst they are busy taking people off the street with 0 hours having never even before shown a cent worth of interest in the profession at all, in fact the bulk of whom, when you speak to them, just say, "well, I just fancied it, bit of status, money" How naive they really are, some actually, do so badly that the airline pull out. - I know of a few that fell foul of that one....
Also now, as the industry is, we, (self sponsored, broke, dole queing wasters) have another layer of airlines self-induced competition, which seems pointless, and financially doesn't make an ounce of sense!
This industry...... arrrrrgghhhh!
WB
Last edited by wingbar; 18th Sep 2005 at 21:21.
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And indeed, it is a wonder airlines survive whilst they are busy taking people off the street with 0 hours having never even before shown a cent worth of interest in the profession at all
I think your comment showed a lack of understanding, the people who apply to sponsorships want that career as much as any self sponsored pilot and to say that they "just fancied it" is a bit unfair. I've wanted a career as an airline pilot for as long as I can remember and because of this I started training for my PPL during high school, I'm now 18 and having finished my A levels and am in a position to start full time training. If I could afford it I could self sponsor, but with sponsorships starting to become available which give a better chance of securing a job after training, who wouldn't choose that over self sponsoring?
Just because I'm trying to get sponsored in no way shows a lack of commitment to the profession and if you were in my position, you would be applying aswell.
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I think the original thread was 'why airlines sponsor' not would we all like to be sponsored!
Would you like to be sponsored sir? Oh no thanks I'd rather pay the £50k myself and have no guarantee of a job at the end!
Would you like to be sponsored sir? Oh no thanks I'd rather pay the £50k myself and have no guarantee of a job at the end!
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I think most airlines require a mix of experience in those that they recruit.From their point of view they would probably prefer a slight bias towards the younger inexperienced chap.Main reasons being cost.A major charter carrier that i know of automatically promotes FO s to SFO s at 1500hrs total time.Overnight a salary raise of around £12-£15k is implemented.
A bod quite high up on the pilot management side of things suggested that a fresh pup with 200-250 hrs and no tr,would be preferred to a guy/girl with 2000-2500 hrs and no tr,purely on cost basis.This is obviously once their "quota" for more experienced pilots has been met.
Found all of this quite a suprise i must admit!
A bod quite high up on the pilot management side of things suggested that a fresh pup with 200-250 hrs and no tr,would be preferred to a guy/girl with 2000-2500 hrs and no tr,purely on cost basis.This is obviously once their "quota" for more experienced pilots has been met.
Found all of this quite a suprise i must admit!
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With regards to having wanted to fly all your life I don't think that has to be a requisite. I've only decided that in the last 3 months but now that I have, am aware of what I am getting into and having looked at the options, my age, employment opportunities am starting as soon as possible, hopefully via one of these 'approved cadet' routes as it maximised my chances.
Why should I be give less credence than others?
Why should I be give less credence than others?
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the first day they train you as a student, they have tax reduction.
I am far more interested in why some people have such a problem if another has any advantage over them in any way. Just as someone else is on an 'approved/sponsored' course, make the best of your own world rather than getting jealous over something over which you have no control.
ask26 might be the better personality in the flightdeck for having analysed his choice rationally than for pure - perhaps - love of the job?
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so if it is NOT for tax reduction, if it is not to save money cuzzzzz a cadet or not a cadet costs money anyway, so WHY THEY DO NOT HIRE US????
unless some managers steal the money and have to cover their ass!!!and then they can say" see!, we do not find any pilot on this market, we have to pay the training, and it is why we have been bankrupt"
have you eared about the pilot shortage???it is has always been here.
I want
unless some managers steal the money and have to cover their ass!!!and then they can say" see!, we do not find any pilot on this market, we have to pay the training, and it is why we have been bankrupt"
have you eared about the pilot shortage???it is has always been here.
I want
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DJ711,
The following airlines have recently run pilot approved training schemes:
BA CitiExpress - via FTE
easyJet - via CTC
Excel - via Oxford
Thomas Cook - via CTC and Oxford
Thomsonfly - via FTE
Flybe also run a part sponsorship through Cabair, keep an eye on cabair's website.
The following airlines run full sponsorships, but you require a PPL to apply:
Air Atlantique
Atlantic Airlines
Highland Airways
Hope that helps
OJ
The following airlines have recently run pilot approved training schemes:
BA CitiExpress - via FTE
easyJet - via CTC
Excel - via Oxford
Thomas Cook - via CTC and Oxford
Thomsonfly - via FTE
Flybe also run a part sponsorship through Cabair, keep an eye on cabair's website.
The following airlines run full sponsorships, but you require a PPL to apply:
Air Atlantique
Atlantic Airlines
Highland Airways
Hope that helps
OJ
