CitiExpress Recruitment
Join Date: Sep 2005
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BA Citiexpress have been recruiting for a while, especially via Oxford and a few from Cabair. All Integrated below 200 hrs and daddies with big wallets! They then opened it up to the rest of the world on 29th Sept only to close it and re-open 5th Sept. They have had hundreds of replies, but by all accounts they have filled their interview allocations. I know a few low hours integrated guys who have been picked but not a single low-hour modular guy or gal (and I know quite a few). Its my opinion that they won't tell you that they have declined you at this stage, just in case all these integrated guys mess up and they need you to fall back on, but I imagine as soon as they get all their places full, a standard email might appear.
Interesting comments about more modular students failing, is this based on a percentage or actual numbers, because there are more modular students in training than integrated.
I have seen bad modular students and some appauling integrated students who should not be anywhere near a plane. I have also seen some competent integrated students and very competent modular guys. Just because the average mod guy may be lower than the average integrated guy, it does not mean that they all have to be excluded! Otherwise do away with the course instead of robbing people of their hard earned money!
Interesting comments about more modular students failing, is this based on a percentage or actual numbers, because there are more modular students in training than integrated.
I have seen bad modular students and some appauling integrated students who should not be anywhere near a plane. I have also seen some competent integrated students and very competent modular guys. Just because the average mod guy may be lower than the average integrated guy, it does not mean that they all have to be excluded! Otherwise do away with the course instead of robbing people of their hard earned money!
Join Date: Feb 2003
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I agree Mr Blue...
I have heard nothing yet either ... And of course like everything else in aviation, expect that trend to continue, it's the least giving industry in the world. Training providers rob you of your cash and don't give a s***. - Unless of course, there's something in it for them...!
I really am gob smacked by how this industry has operated in this pre- historic manner for so long.
WB
I have heard nothing yet either ... And of course like everything else in aviation, expect that trend to continue, it's the least giving industry in the world. Training providers rob you of your cash and don't give a s***. - Unless of course, there's something in it for them...!
I really am gob smacked by how this industry has operated in this pre- historic manner for so long.
WB
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Mr Blue Eyes,
A little cynical aren't we? I agree you will find a few spoilt rich kids at the likes of Oxford, Jerez etc, but I can also say they are the minority. At the end of the day this is just another intergrated vs modular argument waiting to happen. Personally I believe BACX believe they are just taking the least risk with these guys as they are 'fresh' out of school.
I dont think theybelieve they will be better pilots, indeed there is a sim assessment to get in to the company, from which a lot are turned away from. Flying in an airline these days is not about being a "stick and rudder man", it is about being procedurally and technically sound. Unless you have been doing plenty of IR flying, or are some way immersed in the airline business those skills will start to fade.
I can assure you that whilst BACX is fair, they are not stupid and if somebody is not up to standard they will not get on to line. There is no visual preference , at the moment, in the crew room. In fact the majoirty of people that have come in over the past year have been in late 20's and early 30's, instructors, air taxi etc... Not the 200hr rich kids you refer to!
when i said fresh out of school, it was applying to modular and intergrated low hour pilots, in reference to the "200hrs".
I personally dont see a difference with integrated vs modular, but I do see it working against you if you have been out of training for a significant period without doing any suitable flying.
I was an instructor, and by the way, modular...........
A little cynical aren't we? I agree you will find a few spoilt rich kids at the likes of Oxford, Jerez etc, but I can also say they are the minority. At the end of the day this is just another intergrated vs modular argument waiting to happen. Personally I believe BACX believe they are just taking the least risk with these guys as they are 'fresh' out of school.
I dont think theybelieve they will be better pilots, indeed there is a sim assessment to get in to the company, from which a lot are turned away from. Flying in an airline these days is not about being a "stick and rudder man", it is about being procedurally and technically sound. Unless you have been doing plenty of IR flying, or are some way immersed in the airline business those skills will start to fade.
I can assure you that whilst BACX is fair, they are not stupid and if somebody is not up to standard they will not get on to line. There is no visual preference , at the moment, in the crew room. In fact the majoirty of people that have come in over the past year have been in late 20's and early 30's, instructors, air taxi etc... Not the 200hr rich kids you refer to!
when i said fresh out of school, it was applying to modular and intergrated low hour pilots, in reference to the "200hrs".
I personally dont see a difference with integrated vs modular, but I do see it working against you if you have been out of training for a significant period without doing any suitable flying.
I was an instructor, and by the way, modular...........
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I agree with the Bronco that those that don't pass the test do not get in. But that is NOT the point. The point is that the good modular guys do not even get a look in. Was there a question on the citix app about IFR hours? No!
I know loads of mod guys with well over a hundred IFR & twin hours that have applied but not had a call ( excellent CVs, 1st time passes etc) who were full time and trained at integrated schools(same instructors & standards) and I also know a few integrated guys that have had the call. Please explain then Mr Broncoe.
It does not matter what your CV reads or how competent a pilot you are, if you are not being given a chance of a look in! THAT IS THE POINT!
Ignorance is ripe in aviation!
I know loads of mod guys with well over a hundred IFR & twin hours that have applied but not had a call ( excellent CVs, 1st time passes etc) who were full time and trained at integrated schools(same instructors & standards) and I also know a few integrated guys that have had the call. Please explain then Mr Broncoe.
It does not matter what your CV reads or how competent a pilot you are, if you are not being given a chance of a look in! THAT IS THE POINT!
Ignorance is ripe in aviation!
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OK,
I understand your point, I was just giving you a current insiders viewpoint from the crew room, which is not anti modular. As far as recuitment goes, I do not know there exact preferences.
The industry does have an out of date attitude towards recuitment, but I think you will see that change fairly rapidly as many companies become desperate for pilots. The UK regionals being a dead cert!
I understand your point, I was just giving you a current insiders viewpoint from the crew room, which is not anti modular. As far as recuitment goes, I do not know there exact preferences.
The industry does have an out of date attitude towards recuitment, but I think you will see that change fairly rapidly as many companies become desperate for pilots. The UK regionals being a dead cert!
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Agree the standards are very high at the moment and if that persists they will have a shortage. Not that there is a shortage of good pilots! I do hope (& pray) things improve!
Putting on my cyincal hat; if the airlines go short, they just start sponsorship rather than recruit unemployed low hours! No wonder many airlines may a loss!
eg. Flybe spends £50K plus TR on its students when there are hundreds of competent indivuduals out there. Then they all eventually leave.
Did you say airlines were no stupid!
I look forward to having a good discussion with you in the crew room one day!
Putting on my cyincal hat; if the airlines go short, they just start sponsorship rather than recruit unemployed low hours! No wonder many airlines may a loss!
eg. Flybe spends £50K plus TR on its students when there are hundreds of competent indivuduals out there. Then they all eventually leave.
Did you say airlines were no stupid!
I look forward to having a good discussion with you in the crew room one day!
Although the FlyBE cadets eventually leave they are bonded in addition to their typre rating so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at?
Many of them seem to stay for decent amount of time. Flown with quite a few captains who went through the scheme. Anyway, direct entrants seem to be leaving sharpish too so it doesn't matter how you recruit, if terms & conditions aren't good people will walk.
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An excellent CV I trust does not just mean concentrating on the Flying skills of the person, what about their life skills, are they going to be good employees, are they professional, will they represent the airline in a positive manner, do they offer the airline someone who can grow into the cammand or training role, there are lots of other issues rather than the 'flying' element, in fact this is the one part that can be improved with currency.
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hi.
500+ hour instructor, no call. Did not expect anything else to be honest. But what has been highlighted by this forum is that there is discrimination, and that it has to be dealt with, I can think of no other industry that could get away with such behaviour. Could you imagine what the papers would say if a company decided to only hire from one university that it had a finacial relationship with. Face the facts modular boys we have been had, They took our money at the big schools, and dont give a dam that they knew they had vested interests with the airlaines. No one told me at the time I trained that I would stand a better chance intergrated. Face it, it is them and us.
500+ hour instructor, no call. Did not expect anything else to be honest. But what has been highlighted by this forum is that there is discrimination, and that it has to be dealt with, I can think of no other industry that could get away with such behaviour. Could you imagine what the papers would say if a company decided to only hire from one university that it had a finacial relationship with. Face the facts modular boys we have been had, They took our money at the big schools, and dont give a dam that they knew they had vested interests with the airlaines. No one told me at the time I trained that I would stand a better chance intergrated. Face it, it is them and us.
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The industry is a disgrace! It has the cheek to call itself professional!!
Balpa are a waste of time, they have no guts and should disband!
Name me another industry that does not have a clear career path!
£50,000 training
£6,000 Instructor rating
£20,000 Type rating
Now; £££ Time on type!
Where does it end? Who benefits? Its a farce!
Balpa are a waste of time, they have no guts and should disband!
Name me another industry that does not have a clear career path!
£50,000 training
£6,000 Instructor rating
£20,000 Type rating
Now; £££ Time on type!
Where does it end? Who benefits? Its a farce!
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I really feel sorry for anybody starting out in this industry, especially those who have struggled with funding, because the outlook for us guys (modular) at the moment isn't a good one. Certain airlines are even pulling interviews at the last minute! Whatever next...
WB
WB
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Well just a thought, but didn't we all know what we were getting before we went modular? I mean really, we all did our research didn't we? This debate is as old Joanna Lumley and so I certainly thought about it before I paid my money.
We chose modular because it is cheaper. It may or may not be cost effective as it is likely to remove you from the 200 hr jet jobs that oxford integrated graduates get. But I didnt want to pay 60 grand plus when I could do the same much cheaper. But do we expect really to have the same product for half the price?
Now dont get me wrong, we all have the same licence and qualifications, but the product we bought is different. So as myself and countless thousands of others did we find another ways to get that jet job. There are options out there for us (to get other jobs and hours), but its is clearly up to you to change the balance and improve the product you are selling to the airlines. After all we did save 20 grand!
Perhaps mr blue they just didn't like you? I don't.
We chose modular because it is cheaper. It may or may not be cost effective as it is likely to remove you from the 200 hr jet jobs that oxford integrated graduates get. But I didnt want to pay 60 grand plus when I could do the same much cheaper. But do we expect really to have the same product for half the price?
Now dont get me wrong, we all have the same licence and qualifications, but the product we bought is different. So as myself and countless thousands of others did we find another ways to get that jet job. There are options out there for us (to get other jobs and hours), but its is clearly up to you to change the balance and improve the product you are selling to the airlines. After all we did save 20 grand!
Perhaps mr blue they just didn't like you? I don't.
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Blue eyes
"Name me another industry that does not have a clear career path!
£50,000 training
£6,000 Instructor rating
£20,000 Type rating
Now; £££ Time on type!
Where does it end? Who benefits? Its a farce!"
Maybe so, but name me another industry where the applicants are stupid enough to knowingly walk into this situation and still accept it?
We get what we deserve if you ask me.
"Name me another industry that does not have a clear career path!
£50,000 training
£6,000 Instructor rating
£20,000 Type rating
Now; £££ Time on type!
Where does it end? Who benefits? Its a farce!"
Maybe so, but name me another industry where the applicants are stupid enough to knowingly walk into this situation and still accept it?
We get what we deserve if you ask me.
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1. Who says anything about accepting it
2. Who says that no research was done prior to entry
3. Who even says it saved mod guys £20,000
3. Jaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhh, you do not know my experience, how much I spent, or even what I now do.
I agree the discusion about mod/int is old, perhaps that says something about the industry, that nobody has really addressed it!
2. Who says that no research was done prior to entry
3. Who even says it saved mod guys £20,000
3. Jaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhh, you do not know my experience, how much I spent, or even what I now do.
I agree the discusion about mod/int is old, perhaps that says something about the industry, that nobody has really addressed it!