The Real CTC Wings Chop Rate!
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The Real CTC Wings Chop Rate!
8 cadets chopped from the first 11 courses (66 cadets)
= 12% of cadets have been chopped.
Before anyone starts being defensive or challenging this, the info is from friends I have who are on the scheme and also ones who were but not any more. Don't know about anyone being chopped from CP12 onwards so haven't included them in the calc. Will probably get more info soon as CP12 and the rest finish the Bournemouth phase as this is where most of the chopping is done, although it has happened in the NZ phase and later on after the IR.
I've provided this info as the question has been raised previously. CTC try to cover these numbers up and keep it quiet, especially in their presentations to prospective cadets! Its fact. Take it or leave it.
= 12% of cadets have been chopped.
Before anyone starts being defensive or challenging this, the info is from friends I have who are on the scheme and also ones who were but not any more. Don't know about anyone being chopped from CP12 onwards so haven't included them in the calc. Will probably get more info soon as CP12 and the rest finish the Bournemouth phase as this is where most of the chopping is done, although it has happened in the NZ phase and later on after the IR.
I've provided this info as the question has been raised previously. CTC try to cover these numbers up and keep it quiet, especially in their presentations to prospective cadets! Its fact. Take it or leave it.
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I presume the choppee is not financially liable for ther course thus far as the chopper makes such a big deal about screening potential candidates.
I also wonder what the chop assessment process is. Is there some clearly identifiable and well communicated set of key stages that must be attained by a set number of hours? Is it attainment of the stages according to a set number of hours compared to your cadet colleagues (10% will always go). It is that your not perceived to be the right stuff, without any real indication of what the right stuff is?
I also wonder what the chop assessment process is. Is there some clearly identifiable and well communicated set of key stages that must be attained by a set number of hours? Is it attainment of the stages according to a set number of hours compared to your cadet colleagues (10% will always go). It is that your not perceived to be the right stuff, without any real indication of what the right stuff is?
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Small update to the figures I quoted above:
At least 10 cadets now chopped from the first 11 courses, therefore the new chop rate = 15%.
Cadets that CTC have doubts about are now being forced to sign new contracts (typically when beginning the Bournemouth phase of training) whereby they become self funded with no comeback on CTC. If they progress through the IR & CPL (at their own expense) they may then be offered their position back on the scheme to then do the AQC and type rating.
Also, a point about the AQC. A significant number of Wings cadets have not met the standard at the end of the AQC and have been given further hours on the 737 sim and been able to retake the assessment flight at the end. It appears that CTC are being very flexible with their Wings cadets on the AQC as opposed to joe public who doesn't get any second chance.
At least 10 cadets now chopped from the first 11 courses, therefore the new chop rate = 15%.
Cadets that CTC have doubts about are now being forced to sign new contracts (typically when beginning the Bournemouth phase of training) whereby they become self funded with no comeback on CTC. If they progress through the IR & CPL (at their own expense) they may then be offered their position back on the scheme to then do the AQC and type rating.
Also, a point about the AQC. A significant number of Wings cadets have not met the standard at the end of the AQC and have been given further hours on the 737 sim and been able to retake the assessment flight at the end. It appears that CTC are being very flexible with their Wings cadets on the AQC as opposed to joe public who doesn't get any second chance.
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No-one said it was going to be easy and I'd expect the cadets on the course (and prospective cadets) to be fully aware of this. It would be interesting if you could let is know just exactly what is being told to people at the assessment days.
Of course CTC are going to give cadets at the AQC every chance to pass. It is the culmination of a big investment by them and they would hardly throw it away at the very last stage. The other folk on the AQC have made all the investment themselves with no risk to CTC therefore chopping them (unfortunately for them) isn't as hard a decision to make.
Of course CTC are going to give cadets at the AQC every chance to pass. It is the culmination of a big investment by them and they would hardly throw it away at the very last stage. The other folk on the AQC have made all the investment themselves with no risk to CTC therefore chopping them (unfortunately for them) isn't as hard a decision to make.
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Of course CTC are going to give cadets at the AQC every chance to pass. It is the culmination of a big investment by them and they would hardly throw it away at the very last stage. The other folk on the AQC have made all the investment themselves with no risk to CTC therefore chopping them (unfortunately for them) isn't as hard a decision to make.
I dont ask to question their integrity but as I know two capable, enthusiastic people who have recently been through it and failed (neither of whom are afraid of hard work or the importance of preparation) I have certainly been put off returning my application form because, on balance, the money may well be better spent on some multi hour building or an FI rating.
Opinions?
(Anyway, fingers crossed for jobs!
)
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2 more CTC wings cadets sent back from easyjet for not being good enough. More cadets also being sent back to the simulator for extra training. Problems still continuing with Dibdens graduates!!!
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And, shock horror, Dozens of other cadets flying happily for their various satisfied airlines and progressing well. 
But then thats boring isn't it 
But then thats boring isn't it
Last edited by FREDA; 27th Jun 2005 at 14:10.
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FREDA - right on!
nosedive, how about some stats about people from other schools like oxford or FTE? Why pick on CTC? its a tough course, with standards set very high, sure lots of people would have a few problems with the intensity of the course and training pace...thats why the selection is so tough.
PP
nosedive, how about some stats about people from other schools like oxford or FTE? Why pick on CTC? its a tough course, with standards set very high, sure lots of people would have a few problems with the intensity of the course and training pace...thats why the selection is so tough.
PP
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Ok, FREDA, CAT3C AUTOLAND, PPWannaBe,
There's a lot of people who jump up and down quite easily on this forum, including you three!!!
1) I DON'T HAVE INFORMATION FROM OXFORD, CABAIR ETC. I only have the details from CTC.
2) I'M NOT PICKING ON CTC - I'M JUST GIVING THE FACTS!
3) READ MY FIRST POST - this is just information for those that have asked the question before. I'm not giving my opinion, just the facts. You decide whether you believe the training is not up to standard, the selection process is not stringent enough etc...
Please don't waste my time again making me justify my posts.
There's a lot of people who jump up and down quite easily on this forum, including you three!!!
1) I DON'T HAVE INFORMATION FROM OXFORD, CABAIR ETC. I only have the details from CTC.
2) I'M NOT PICKING ON CTC - I'M JUST GIVING THE FACTS!
3) READ MY FIRST POST - this is just information for those that have asked the question before. I'm not giving my opinion, just the facts. You decide whether you believe the training is not up to standard, the selection process is not stringent enough etc...
Please don't waste my time again making me justify my posts.
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Sorry to disappoint, but im far from jumping up and down!
The "Facts" you give are very one sided and i was merely trying to give the other successful ,and far more common, side to the story which you don't seem too keen on mentioning.
Sorry to waste your obviously precious time, and i'd like you to extend the same courtesy to others by not questioning when another side of the story is presented.
Cheerio!
The "Facts" you give are very one sided and i was merely trying to give the other successful ,and far more common, side to the story which you don't seem too keen on mentioning.
Sorry to waste your obviously precious time, and i'd like you to extend the same courtesy to others by not questioning when another side of the story is presented.
Cheerio!
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Problems still continuing with Dibdens graduates!!!
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Nosedive,
I think you will find this is the case with alot of training courses, not all can make the grade for one reason or another, its nothing new.
Oh, sorry to waste your time.
I think you will find this is the case with alot of training courses, not all can make the grade for one reason or another, its nothing new.
Oh, sorry to waste your time.
There's always a chop rate. Just look at the military flying training system. They have the most thorough and expensive selection process in the world. Yet people get chopped all the way through the various multi year stages.
A chop rate of 15% sounds about right. Its a sad fact of life and its horrid for all involved. I speak as someone who has both been chopped and later been a chopper.
Cheers
WWW
A chop rate of 15% sounds about right. Its a sad fact of life and its horrid for all involved. I speak as someone who has both been chopped and later been a chopper.
Cheers
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What would be the fate of those being chopped? Would you mention this in an interview as a way to show your determination to succeed?
WWW your thoughts appreciated having been on both sides!
WWW your thoughts appreciated having been on both sides!
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You've got to front up at interview - this is a very, very close-knit industry - pilot interviewers and training staff from airlines often know each other. Being dishonest and then getting discovered later will be regarded as a hanging offence.
Just trained a guy who had been chopped from another airline - we gave him a chance & he rose to meet our expectations. We don't say the other airline was wrong - the circumstances were different, and we took a chance because, well - to be honest, fundamentally we liked him and we thought he was worth a go after being totally open and honest with us at interview.
He breezed it (and we are not pushovers)
Just trained a guy who had been chopped from another airline - we gave him a chance & he rose to meet our expectations. We don't say the other airline was wrong - the circumstances were different, and we took a chance because, well - to be honest, fundamentally we liked him and we thought he was worth a go after being totally open and honest with us at interview.
He breezed it (and we are not pushovers)
