Future Employement
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Future Employement
Hello All,
I'm looking to begin the APP with Oxford later this year!
The only worry i have is weather or not the current employment trends will continue!!!
As it's going to cost an absolute sh1t load, i'd be broke if it
all went pear shaped after training, with regards to employment.
I know nobody could predict the cycle of employment accurately,
but i'm sure alot of you pruners have a good idea!!!
So, does anybody think current employment levels will continue
or are we seeing a peak due to end very soon????
Any info/websites would be very greatful.
Thanks to all who reply AK.
I'm looking to begin the APP with Oxford later this year!
The only worry i have is weather or not the current employment trends will continue!!!
As it's going to cost an absolute sh1t load, i'd be broke if it
all went pear shaped after training, with regards to employment.
I know nobody could predict the cycle of employment accurately,
but i'm sure alot of you pruners have a good idea!!!
So, does anybody think current employment levels will continue
or are we seeing a peak due to end very soon????
Any info/websites would be very greatful.
Thanks to all who reply AK.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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You're on your way mate, congratulations....
What you need to do is stop worrying about it! If there is no jobs then what can you do? If there is jobs then you need a licence...
I\'d concerntrate on your training and stop worrying about work.
Pax want to fly and Airbus and Boeing are still knocking them out so someone has to operate the flights....
I know its daunting but we are all in the same boat...
Hang in there and remember that you're not on your own. You'll make some good mates and have a laugh.
Maybe look at a ramp or dispatcher job after you finish your licence and if you get a flying job then all the better!
Expect the worst and hope for the best!
Good luck mate
What you need to do is stop worrying about it! If there is no jobs then what can you do? If there is jobs then you need a licence...
I\'d concerntrate on your training and stop worrying about work.
Pax want to fly and Airbus and Boeing are still knocking them out so someone has to operate the flights....
I know its daunting but we are all in the same boat...
Hang in there and remember that you're not on your own. You'll make some good mates and have a laugh.
Maybe look at a ramp or dispatcher job after you finish your licence and if you get a flying job then all the better!
Expect the worst and hope for the best!
Good luck mate
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If it is anything to go by, the China Southern training college in Australia is increasing student numbers 300-400% in the next year or 2. The airline wouldn't be training pilots if it weren't planning to need them. Emirates have a stack of new aircraft on order aswell. If these are anything to go by then there will be jobs somewhere. I am still aspiring to airlines so haven't the years of experience to comment authoritatively but I would take the gamble and work hard to get that first job.
Thread Starter
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Hello All,
Thanks alot for the replies. Think i've already made my mind up,
just hope it's the right decision!!!
I know a lot of airlines have currently got some major orders
for new a/c, but orders can be cancelled if all were to go
t1ts up!!!
Anyway, keep the info coming, thanks again,
AK
Thanks alot for the replies. Think i've already made my mind up,
just hope it's the right decision!!!
I know a lot of airlines have currently got some major orders
for new a/c, but orders can be cancelled if all were to go
t1ts up!!!
Anyway, keep the info coming, thanks again,
AK
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Whatever the future recruitment situation, its better to be working in an office with a Frozen ATPL than it is without........
It is however better to be working as a pilot flying a small plane with a single propeller on the front and holding a FATPL but getting paid peanuts rather than sitting in the dull office, sending applications to airlines and then spending most of your time wondering and worrying why you have not got any interviews.
Very very very few people finish a course and then go straight into the right seat of a jet. Lots of people find jobs flying small planes for a year or so and then find they start to get a reasonable number of interviews with companies they would love to work for. An astounding number of people get FATPLs and then continue with their current line of work writing to large companies but get nowhere because they have no experience. I guess they think flying small planes is not worthy of their time or they have financial commitments which they could not meet flying little planes.
If you go into a course thinking you will have a good chance of getting a right seat job afterwards, you will probably be one of the many very upset people. It might however happen and you may get hired. If you go into the course thinking, I love flying and would like to fly anything for anyone, you will have a much better chance of doing what you set out to do. You would also stand a better chance of eventually moving into larger planes.
Finding a job flying a small plane is not easy to start with. You have to put in the effort and go meet people in person rather than sending letters, you have to be very committed to your goal of getting that job. The difference is you will usually find a job in the end if you go about it in the right way, not true if you are applying to airlines with 250hrs.
I have not yet got a job flying a big plane, I have not even started applying as I am 25 and not in a big rush. I love the job I have and am just now, after 3 years of flying starting to think about sending out CVs. First job was a C206 second was in a PA28 & PA32 third was a Caravan & 206 and now the fourth is in a twin turboprop all of it PIC. TT2000. If you do it that way it is hard work for not much money but a lot of flying and a lot of fun. If you start the course like most others thinking you will get an airline job straight away you are crazy and will probably end up in debt, pissed off and frustrated. If you are doing it because you love flying then you will probably end up doing something you love.
I will wish you lots of luck as if you are only after the airline job that is what you will need.
There is another route I thought I should add. This has to be the most stupid way of doing it but some people have the money. Get your FATPL then get lots of rejection letters from airlines. Buy a 737 type rating and then get some more rejection letters from airlines. Pay for 300 hrs in type and you may get a job if you are lucky. Please don\'t go down that route as it make the industry crap for people who don\'t have money to waste as pay goes down and training costs go up. If you do do it that way be a little bit inventive and get something like a 747-200 rating or a L1011 or dare I say it an F50 one (if you are in that catagory I doubt you would spend money to fly something with props), don't be a sheep following the crowd.
There is always a job out there. It just depends how much you want it.
Last edited by Scoob; 18th Apr 2005 at 13:05.
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yeah, good luck to you.
15 years ago, i was like you. 15 years after, I have recovered only 6-7% of the money I have invested in aviation(and I regret it). close of 100'000US$ invested.
I have many problems njow with my family, no real life, and I am uncertain of my futur and noone can tell me how it is going to be.better or worse?should I stop or should i continue to look for money and making my family(and me) more unhappy?
I did many job like scoob, but all these jobs do not pay well.I should say, you never recover your costs unless to join an airline like BA. I do not talk about ryanair, or eazy who apparently dont hire guys like us.
the waiting line of unemployed people in europe is so long(10'000 maybe?all with a JAA ATP and MCC), that I personaly think airlines have enough pilots ready for the 5 coming years at least.
if airline start to hire pilot(due to a shortage (let me laugh!!!I love a good joke)), they will certainly NOT take you, (or me), but in 18 months they can train their own pilots.Why should they bother with a guy like you???
if you start your training, your chance to get a job in the futur are close of 0%.
make a reasearch on this forum, you will see...the futur is not pink my friend, but black!
the best would be for you, to be sponsored by an airline...but dont invest money from your pocket, it is NOT going to work.
I HAVE WARNED YOU!
15 years ago, i was like you. 15 years after, I have recovered only 6-7% of the money I have invested in aviation(and I regret it). close of 100'000US$ invested.
I have many problems njow with my family, no real life, and I am uncertain of my futur and noone can tell me how it is going to be.better or worse?should I stop or should i continue to look for money and making my family(and me) more unhappy?
I did many job like scoob, but all these jobs do not pay well.I should say, you never recover your costs unless to join an airline like BA. I do not talk about ryanair, or eazy who apparently dont hire guys like us.
the waiting line of unemployed people in europe is so long(10'000 maybe?all with a JAA ATP and MCC), that I personaly think airlines have enough pilots ready for the 5 coming years at least.
if airline start to hire pilot(due to a shortage (let me laugh!!!I love a good joke)), they will certainly NOT take you, (or me), but in 18 months they can train their own pilots.Why should they bother with a guy like you???
if you start your training, your chance to get a job in the futur are close of 0%.
make a reasearch on this forum, you will see...the futur is not pink my friend, but black!
the best would be for you, to be sponsored by an airline...but dont invest money from your pocket, it is NOT going to work.
I HAVE WARNED YOU!
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Top post Scoob - couldn't agree more!!
Prepare yourself for a few years working your way up to the airline job you want. If your big break comes sooner, that's great, if not you won't be disappointed.
If you only want to fly big jets and earn lots of money then think again, if you honestly love flying in any way, shape or form and are prepared to work at it, both during training and afterwards then go for it!
Good luck mate
Al
Prepare yourself for a few years working your way up to the airline job you want. If your big break comes sooner, that's great, if not you won't be disappointed.
If you only want to fly big jets and earn lots of money then think again, if you honestly love flying in any way, shape or form and are prepared to work at it, both during training and afterwards then go for it!
Good luck mate
Al
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@Spaceman:
I really don't know what has happened to you but reading quite some posts in different threads I am not surprised that you are still without a job. I know it is pretty hard out there to find a job and you are right warning the original poster about things to come. However, you are very negative.... or must I say frustated?
@ Aviation Kid:
Nobody can predict the cycles in aviation. One says it is a seven year cycle and we seem to be going up again right now. But you never know. If you want to do it, look around and search the forums and the internet. There are training organisations around having some sort of agreements with companies to get you in if you are good. No guarantees but possibilities! Try to get your training over there..... If you don't get in in you only lose a few hundred pounds. If you do get in they might get you a job somewhere and from that you can continue.... Once again no guarantees but to my opinion the best option!
I really don't know what has happened to you but reading quite some posts in different threads I am not surprised that you are still without a job. I know it is pretty hard out there to find a job and you are right warning the original poster about things to come. However, you are very negative.... or must I say frustated?
@ Aviation Kid:
Nobody can predict the cycles in aviation. One says it is a seven year cycle and we seem to be going up again right now. But you never know. If you want to do it, look around and search the forums and the internet. There are training organisations around having some sort of agreements with companies to get you in if you are good. No guarantees but possibilities! Try to get your training over there..... If you don't get in in you only lose a few hundred pounds. If you do get in they might get you a job somewhere and from that you can continue.... Once again no guarantees but to my opinion the best option!
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To all who have replied, thanks alot, really appreciate it!!!
To be honest, i'm not too worried about the type of a/c i'll
get to fly, as long as i'm flying!!! Get my foot in the door, progress from there!
Viper2:
Totally agree with what you said about some FTO's. I'm going for
selection at one of the major FTO's very soon. I think the connections they have with the airlines can be very useful if you
prove good enough.
As i said earlier, think i've already made my mind up. It's just
good to know others opinions!!
Once again thank you all, keep em coming!!!!!
AK
To be honest, i'm not too worried about the type of a/c i'll
get to fly, as long as i'm flying!!! Get my foot in the door, progress from there!
Viper2:
Totally agree with what you said about some FTO's. I'm going for
selection at one of the major FTO's very soon. I think the connections they have with the airlines can be very useful if you
prove good enough.
As i said earlier, think i've already made my mind up. It's just
good to know others opinions!!
Once again thank you all, keep em coming!!!!!
AK
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Vipers2,
of course I am very negative. I received lot of email from friends who ask me where they can get a job. I can not even get a job for myself. This problem is all over Europe. the situation in England is probably better than on the continent, but when I see airlines receiving 1500 applications in 2 weeks for a few place, you do not have to tell me I am frustrated...
and what I see, classrooms fully packed of 20 years old boys, who want be a pilot, ...
in france we are voting soon for the EU constitution, and it is going to be a NO.so yes, here on the continet we are all frustrated, keep in mind that germany and france exceed 20% of unemployed peoples and this rate is not going to slow down.
...
good luck !
of course I am very negative. I received lot of email from friends who ask me where they can get a job. I can not even get a job for myself. This problem is all over Europe. the situation in England is probably better than on the continent, but when I see airlines receiving 1500 applications in 2 weeks for a few place, you do not have to tell me I am frustrated...
and what I see, classrooms fully packed of 20 years old boys, who want be a pilot, ...
in france we are voting soon for the EU constitution, and it is going to be a NO.so yes, here on the continet we are all frustrated, keep in mind that germany and france exceed 20% of unemployed peoples and this rate is not going to slow down.
...
good luck !
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The airline industry is cyclical, but the length and depth of each cycle is very difficult to predict. If it were simply down to economic factors it would be relatively straightforward but, as the last few years have shown, unpredictabe events such as terrorist attacks or SARS can have a far stronger effect than the economic health of the developed world.
However, it is fairly safe to say that each period of expansion is followed by a similar period of 'consolidation' (read contraction!). The net trend is always upwards - at least, so far it is - but these consolidation periods can be quite vicious! So, when's the next one due? Well, who knows? If oil prices continue to rise because demand outsrips production (which is not the same as it running out!), that could act as a serious brake on Western economies within the next year. If the US doesn't get a grip on its national debt, that could slow US growth - which historically affects the rest of the developed world disproportionately - within the next two years.
If Bird Flu becomes perceived as a risk to travellers, or Al Q'aeda targets the West successfully (even if not aviation directly), the whole pack of cards so carefully reconstructed since 2002 could come crashing down once again.
If, if, if! Frankly, it's too difficult to go any further meaningfully. For every reputable forecaster who says we're on a roll for the next 10 years, there's another who says growth will fizzle out within 18 months. Who do you believe? The only certainty is what's already happened, and I think we're going to look back on 2004/5 as having been very good years.
Scroggs
However, it is fairly safe to say that each period of expansion is followed by a similar period of 'consolidation' (read contraction!). The net trend is always upwards - at least, so far it is - but these consolidation periods can be quite vicious! So, when's the next one due? Well, who knows? If oil prices continue to rise because demand outsrips production (which is not the same as it running out!), that could act as a serious brake on Western economies within the next year. If the US doesn't get a grip on its national debt, that could slow US growth - which historically affects the rest of the developed world disproportionately - within the next two years.
If Bird Flu becomes perceived as a risk to travellers, or Al Q'aeda targets the West successfully (even if not aviation directly), the whole pack of cards so carefully reconstructed since 2002 could come crashing down once again.
If, if, if! Frankly, it's too difficult to go any further meaningfully. For every reputable forecaster who says we're on a roll for the next 10 years, there's another who says growth will fizzle out within 18 months. Who do you believe? The only certainty is what's already happened, and I think we're going to look back on 2004/5 as having been very good years.
Scroggs
