Are Trainee schemes unlikely?
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Are Trainee schemes unlikely?
I did a search, but only saw a message from 2002 - which is probably a little old to answer my question!
What are the chances that BA, or indeed any other British carrier will re-start their respective Trainee Pilot Schemes? Are they highly unlikely in this world of airlines trying to lower their costs heavily?
BA still give information about their schemes on their website, so perhaps give it a couple of years?
With BA now officially the world's most profitable airline, maybe its sooner than we think, after all surely the demand for pilots is increasing now?
What are the chances that BA, or indeed any other British carrier will re-start their respective Trainee Pilot Schemes? Are they highly unlikely in this world of airlines trying to lower their costs heavily?
BA still give information about their schemes on their website, so perhaps give it a couple of years?
With BA now officially the world's most profitable airline, maybe its sooner than we think, after all surely the demand for pilots is increasing now?
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In my opinion, the era of airline-paid flight training in UK is over. Even though the demand for new pilots is not particularly intense, the supply is huge - and appears to be getting greater. Under these circumstances, there is no incentive for an airline to effectively give you £50,000+ when you all seem quite happy to find it yourselves!
Schemes like CTC's, which apply airline selection procedures, then loan you the money for a deferred, employment-related repayment over many years, seem to be the way of the future.
Scroggs
Schemes like CTC's, which apply airline selection procedures, then loan you the money for a deferred, employment-related repayment over many years, seem to be the way of the future.
Scroggs
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Thats a shame.
Does anyone know how many piltos are near retirement age at BA or any other UK airline?
Perhaps if its large enought, I think BA will start their trainee scheme, or any other airline in Britain.
Does anyone know how many piltos are near retirement age at BA or any other UK airline?
Perhaps if its large enought, I think BA will start their trainee scheme, or any other airline in Britain.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Concorde, the great pipe dream "the BA retirement bulge" has in fact passed. With new changes to retirement ages coming in that will delay many guys leaving.
As was pointed out by Scroggs, the days of the fully sponsored cadet schemes appear to be gone for the forseeable future.
The "pay for rating" or "pay for your sponsorship" (ala CTC) are well established (unfortunately) and there would have to be a significant change in the number of people applying as well as a huge change in the attitude of the airline accountants.
As was pointed out by Scroggs, the days of the fully sponsored cadet schemes appear to be gone for the forseeable future.
The "pay for rating" or "pay for your sponsorship" (ala CTC) are well established (unfortunately) and there would have to be a significant change in the number of people applying as well as a huge change in the attitude of the airline accountants.
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Thank you for your reply.
That being the case, even if I was to go for the schemes you've mentioned, how would I achieve the hours requested by airlines. Fo example, 1500 hrs on a Jet Aircraft. Would I achieve that within the CTC scheme?
That being the case, even if I was to go for the schemes you've mentioned, how would I achieve the hours requested by airlines. Fo example, 1500 hrs on a Jet Aircraft. Would I achieve that within the CTC scheme?
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Hi Concorde,
The CTC Wings scheme that is mentioned here is a training programme that would allow someone with zero flying time to be trained to a level for the right hand seat of an airline.
As you mention, a lot of airlines are asking for 1500 hours on jet aircraft as a recruiting requirement, but this requirment is designed to target pilots already qualified with that amount of experience (usually from previous jobs).
Other sponsorship schemes that have run recently include Flybe (requires cadet to find approximately half the training cost) and Britannia (I believe some level of financial input is required from the cadet).
I'm not sure if sponsorship schemes, such as those run by BA, will one day return, but one thing is for sure: there are job-seeking self-sponsored cadets graduating from schools every month and more in the process of starting training. It may be that airlines recruit from this source, until dry, before thinking about starting sponsorship schemes again.
RBG
The CTC Wings scheme that is mentioned here is a training programme that would allow someone with zero flying time to be trained to a level for the right hand seat of an airline.
As you mention, a lot of airlines are asking for 1500 hours on jet aircraft as a recruiting requirement, but this requirment is designed to target pilots already qualified with that amount of experience (usually from previous jobs).
Other sponsorship schemes that have run recently include Flybe (requires cadet to find approximately half the training cost) and Britannia (I believe some level of financial input is required from the cadet).
I'm not sure if sponsorship schemes, such as those run by BA, will one day return, but one thing is for sure: there are job-seeking self-sponsored cadets graduating from schools every month and more in the process of starting training. It may be that airlines recruit from this source, until dry, before thinking about starting sponsorship schemes again.
RBG
Last edited by Reds Blues Greens; 1st Apr 2005 at 15:19.
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The source of self-sponsored pilots shows no sign of 'drying up' - in fact, quite the opposite - so why should airlines front up the money for fully-sponsored training when they don't need to? Britannia and FlyBe have, in the past, offered part sponsorship, which still required a hefty investment by the student. There is no word on whether these schemes will operate again.
Forget about 'retirement bulges'! They won't happen. In short, don't look for statistics to give you false hope that someone else will pay for your training; the market has passed that stage. As CTC have proved, offering training that you don't have to pay for until you have a job (whether or not it's in flying...) is a very successful way of getting people to sign on the dotted line. Why should airlines do it differently when the evidence suggests that you guys are willing to go this route?
If you want free training, the miltary's the only option!
Forget about 'retirement bulges'! They won't happen. In short, don't look for statistics to give you false hope that someone else will pay for your training; the market has passed that stage. As CTC have proved, offering training that you don't have to pay for until you have a job (whether or not it's in flying...) is a very successful way of getting people to sign on the dotted line. Why should airlines do it differently when the evidence suggests that you guys are willing to go this route?
If you want free training, the miltary's the only option!
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Thank you scroggs and the rest of you.
I'm know having serious difficulty in choosing what to do know. I've looked at Oxford...seems excellent, however its blo**y expensive! CTC looks good as well, but I'm worried about reputation and so on.
I'm know having serious difficulty in choosing what to do know. I've looked at Oxford...seems excellent, however its blo**y expensive! CTC looks good as well, but I'm worried about reputation and so on.
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CTC looks good as well, but I'm worried about reputation and so on.
If you were successfully selected for the scheme and there is a very good chance of being picked up by an airline at the end of training then the last thing on your mind would be the reputation of the training (which would probably never even be an issue if deemed suitable by a number of airlines using the scheme).
RBG
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Someone from Oxford training said that BA and other airlines are finding it increasingly hard to find HIGH QUALITY low hour pilots. He suggested that in the next few years, BA may re-introduce its trainee scheme.
But all the info I've got today, I don't know who to believe!
But all the info I've got today, I don't know who to believe!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Concorde,
You said it yourself, "someone from Oxford Training"...
BA are recruiting heavily at the moment but they are taking experienced pilots, not just jet folks, but any reasonable experience. They do not have to set up a cadet scheme (fully sponsored).
The industry is very cyclical... but the over all trend over the last 10 years is conditions have fallen.
If you're waiting for a sponsorship to become available, you might be waiting for a long time and then you might be too old or whatever.
You said it yourself, "someone from Oxford Training"...
BA are recruiting heavily at the moment but they are taking experienced pilots, not just jet folks, but any reasonable experience. They do not have to set up a cadet scheme (fully sponsored).
The industry is very cyclical... but the over all trend over the last 10 years is conditions have fallen.
If you're waiting for a sponsorship to become available, you might be waiting for a long time and then you might be too old or whatever.
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Isn't the key here (well for me it is) is guaranteed employement ???
Training /sponsorship schemes, once signed on, you know you are gonna get a job at the end. (if not, at least u been trained for free, or cheap!) That in my mind is the most important factor.
You really want to part with £70,000 not knowing if you are going to get a job in the end?
I dont really know the facts here, so can some one please esplain more.....
I hear 'rumours' of students self sponsored getting 'contracts' early on at their schools? - Is this the norm- expect to get a contract from mid way to end of your flying school course????????
I want Job security . I'd pay anything it takes, for that!
Training /sponsorship schemes, once signed on, you know you are gonna get a job at the end. (if not, at least u been trained for free, or cheap!) That in my mind is the most important factor.
You really want to part with £70,000 not knowing if you are going to get a job in the end?
I dont really know the facts here, so can some one please esplain more.....
I hear 'rumours' of students self sponsored getting 'contracts' early on at their schools? - Is this the norm- expect to get a contract from mid way to end of your flying school course????????
I want Job security . I'd pay anything it takes, for that!
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Aerospace what are you going on about? Have you not read this thread? For your benefit, I shall repeat this one last time: THERE ARE NO SPONSORSHIPS AT PRESENT!! There are no schemes with guaranteed jobs waiting for you either - though CTC's scheme does preselect students for an airline (mainly easyJet), subject to them passing training and the airline still having a job available at that time. It's not guaranteed, though, and it's anything but cheap!
I don't understand what you mean about students getting contracts while in training. There was a period in 1998-2000 when some students were lucky enough to secure conditional offers of employment while they were still in training, but the conditions included passing the course and agreeing to be bonded. Nothing like that has happened since early 2001, and I don't see it happening again any time soon.
You want guarantees, you're looking at the wrong field!
Scroggs
I don't understand what you mean about students getting contracts while in training. There was a period in 1998-2000 when some students were lucky enough to secure conditional offers of employment while they were still in training, but the conditions included passing the course and agreeing to be bonded. Nothing like that has happened since early 2001, and I don't see it happening again any time soon.
You want guarantees, you're looking at the wrong field!
Scroggs
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Perhaps someone else can confirm, but don't Atlantic at CVT still offer FULL sponsorship from zero hour to Type Rating (also paid for) AND a job at the end? (although bonded for x-years and maybe grade B pay stucture?)
