Funny/rude response from new airline

[mikepops]

This morning I have received my Flight International in the post and like every Monday morning I tried to be among the first applicants for the jobs advertised.

E*******x trading as C******* now, confirmed over the phone that they were recruiting non TR F/Os. Inspite of this within a couple of hours of e-mailing my CV I received a response stating that all positions had been filled. I don't know about you but I personally can't see how multiple F/O positions can be appointed within hours of advertising them, so I politely enquired. Was I too nosey? Judge for yourselves. Here's a copy of the communications. Boy did he have a bad day.

-------------------------------------------------


> > Sent: 14 February 2005 10:14
> > To: W***** ******r
> > Subject: F/O positions
> >
> > Dear Mr S*******,
> >
> > I write to you with great interest having learned that you are
> presently
> > recruiting First Officers.
> >
> > Having recently graduated with excellent results all-round from Oxford
> > Aviation Training and Airways Flight Training, Exeter, I am looking to
> > start my commercial pilot career. My availability is immediate and I
> am
> > prepared to relocate as necessary.
> >
> > A highly academic Aerospace Engineering background, team-oriented work
> > principles and high personal standards are a few of the resources
> which
> > I would be glad to bring to the company as a contribution to your
> future
> > success.
> >
> > Please find attached my Curriculum Vitae containing only brief
> details,
> > which we can discuss further when we meet.
> >
> > Thank you for your consideration and I look forward to hearing from
> you
> > soon.
> >
> > Best regards,

----------------------------------------------

> From: "W***** ******r" <***@*******.com>
> Subject: RE: F/O positions
> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:40:11 -0000
>
> >
> > Dear Sir,
> >
> > Thank you so much for your interest in E*** ***x. Unfortunately we
> have
> > filled all our F/O positions.
> >
> > I will however keep your resume on file.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > W***** ******r.

------------------------------------------

> Sent: 14 February 2005 13:50
> To: W***** ******r
> Cc: A*** A******
> Subject: RE: F/O positions
>
> Dear Mr S******r,
>
> Thank you for your swift response. I would just like to make sure that
> there has not been a mistake somewhere along the line. I am confused by
> your message because my application was made in response to your
> advertisement which has just been published this morning in Flight
> Interational. I don't see how you could have appointed F/Os for those
> positions in just a few hours from advertising them. Would you please
> clarify.
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>


---------------------------------------------------

From: "W***** ******r" <w**@******.com>

Subject: RE: F/O positions
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:53:33 -0000

>
> No I do not intend to clarify.
> Warren

----------------------------------------------------


Sent: 14 February 2005 14:24
To: W***** ******r
Subject: RE: F/O positions

Mr S******,

I have made a polite and justified request. I do not think there was any
need for you to address me in the way that you did. Your customer
service manner is very disappointing. I will make enquiries somewhere
else in the company and I will obtain an explanation. I will also be
making a complaint regarding your offensive response.



--------------------------------------------------

From: "W***** ******r"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:32:04 -0000

Sir,
I will have you know that I own this company and I will not under any
circumstances consider your employment having experienced your response
to me in seeking "clarification". If you knew anything at all about this
industry you would understand that we continually receive pilot
applications, literally hundreds each week, and the time from placing an
add to publication sees many suitable applicants cross my desk. Please
do not waste my time seeking "clarification" as you call it, as for
going else where in this organisation - well I make all the employment
decisions and you came to the right place in the first instance.
W*****

----------------------------------------------------

Thank you. You could have clarified earlier just like you have now (time from placing the ad to publication), and you could have used a friendlier tone. I do not expect more than to be treated as politely as I treat others.

I can tell you are very busy and important so please do not waste your time in replying.

Good luck with your company.

Mike

[jamestkirk]

Application

I take it your application was unsuccessful.

Remember to send another CV within 6 months. Don't give up, they might change thier mind and like you inquisitive nature.

Although i think it might be a long shot.

It's a shame they took that tone with you. But, they must recieve so many CV's, calls, emails etc. I am not excusing his manner though.

They might have advertised the positions elsewhere and taken a selection from there. The recruitment policy may have changed at time of print. It's just another frustrating annomoly of getting an airline job.

Good luck with it

[FougaMagister]

Considering their obvious lack of good manners, I would suggest that you are better off not working for that outfit anyway (whoever they might be).

While you may have been a little too insistent, I'll say it's their loss, mate!

Better laugh about it, otherwise you'll soon become bitter and frustrated about this whole bloody mess they call the airline industry...

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Mike,

Think he may have been shy?

[Divet II]

"When you see a job advertised in a flight magazine, a thousand CV's will already be in the post."

Clive Hughes - 'How to Become an Airline Pilot'

[barry lloyd]

Three things:

1) Consider yourself lucky to have received a reply. In recent months I have applied for more than 100 jobs, and received precisely three 'no' replies. Most employers just don't bother any more, the excuse being that they are too busy or do not have enough resources. They craftily get around this by saying that if you don't hear within a given time, assume you weren't interesting enough to the prospective employer.

2) Never get into an argument over being turned down with a prospective employer. The same guy might turn up in the next company you want to work for, and even if you're the best pilot in the world, he won't take you on. Can you be sure he won't remember you?

3) It's a sad fact of life that many jobs (and flying is not necessarily different) which are advertised have already been filled, but the company has to go through the charade of having a competition in order to show that the rules (either internal or external) have been followed. This happened to me many years ago with Dan-Air, when I applied to be a pilot with them.

The best of luck - I'm sure something will come along eventually. Keep trying, send unsolicited applications, keep your ear to the ground (except when you're flying!), and don't be too disheartened by the response of someone who, and here I agree with FougaMagister, probably isn't worth working for anyway.

[Mister Geezer]

I would not worry - at the moment you would be joining a glorified travel agency because that is all euromanx is. In reality euromanx are simply a travel agency subsidiary of Club 328 becasue they have no aircraft of their own.

I was on a turnaround yesterday in the Isle of Man and there was 2 Denim F50s 1 Atlantic ATR 42 and a Flightline BAe 146-200 operating on their behalf - bit of a joke and a bit of a disgrace really!

However despite getting an obnoxious reply aviation is a small world and I would think twice at launching a reply with a similar tone - even though it may be justified! However I would not give that outfit the time of day if a response like that were being sent.

Take note though that despite an advert in Flight, there will still be many people ahead of you in the CV pile so vacancies could well of been filled already!

[Jodiekeyz]

EEww...how rude!...Forget em, they are not worth working for.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Since they officially don't want you, any chance you could post the text of the job advert here for the rest of us?

edit ... Actually I just found the ad in the Flight website, what's the contact address / details?

[mikepops]

Thanks for your posts!

Thanks for all your support and empathy guys (and girls!), I'm sure I am not the only, the first or the last pilot to have to deal with such a lack of professionalism all the way from the top of an aviation organisation. An oppressive attitude to running a recruitment campaign or a busines for that matter, in my view has no place in this industry or indeed in the contemporary society. To answer some of the posts, yes it is true that because I dared to confront this abuse, there is verry little probability that I will ever get the chance to work for Mr Nasty. On the other hand it is a sure way to steer well clear of a career in taking c*ap, bowing down, kissing ar$e and feeding some tyrant dinosaur's ego and illusions of power, for a living. No thank you.

I can appreciate the point that there are usually hundreds of CV's already on the desk before the ad is printed, but I was told the same morning on the phone that they were still recruiting non TR F/Os, and an hour later I received the "positions filled" e-mail.

Luke, I cannot disclose the info you are asking for "on here" for legal reasons. However if you are still interested in applying and you have not yet found the contact info relating to the ad, PM me and I will be happy to help.

CAT3C Andy, DBS!

[WX Man]

I think I know exactly who/which company you mean. You have my sympathy!

[mikepops]

More funny responses

Here's some more funny replies (in the comical sense), I hope you find them as entertaining as I did. I'd love to read similar ones from those who kept them.
--------------------------------------------------
Hello Mike,
Unfortunately we dont hire foreigners.
You'd better send your application to China Eastern.

Regards.

S****** F*****
Sr. Eng.
A******* Training Department
----------------------------------------------------

Dear Mike,

A nice try but:

a. We are not recruiting; and,
b. ******* *** only provides ATPL theory and MCC courses so do not have an "Operations" empire.

A word of advice - be a little more selective in your 'scatter gun' approach.

Laurie

---------------------------------------------------

{this response is to my sales pitch cover e-mail in which I made refference to my achievements during training}

Congratulations Mike,
Well done!

Have to disappoint you though. We do not have any openings for you due to
your limited pilot experience.

Thank you for your interest in R******* A******* Ltd.

Regards,
T******

--------------------------------------------------

[fourplay]

Mikepops

Thanks Mickey, You made me feel heaps better about all those sh***y replies I get for cabin crew that are similar

[smellster]

Fair play to you,

If I were you I would hassle the ass of them after those replies. Even if it is just to annoy them!!

That's exactly what I did, the assy responses meant even more CVs, therefore even more work for the assy people involved, because that's what they deserve.

Have fun.

(And the answer is no)

[Mister Geezer]

An attitude like that won't get you far!

[headyheights]

Mikepops.

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. I know what company you mean and I know the character in question. You have to understand that he is the CEO of a successful company that is rapidly expanding, he is therefore a very busy man. Bearing this in mind he has got better things to do than write a long explaination about why he would not to recruit. He doesn't have to explain himself to you! I can see your frustration, I too am on the job market like the rest of us but a confontational approach to recruitment is not advisable.

Quote.
"I don't see how you could have appointed F/Os for those positions in just a few hours from advertising them. Would you please clarify."

Perhaps a lighter appraoch may have worked. I do see your point though. If the guy is a grumpy old so and so and says he does not wish to clarify then leave him be. End of subject.

In any industry it is quite common for jobs to be taken before the advert gets published.

I know you think that he should have better "customer service" as you put it but you are not the customer! You can't start arguments with a militant tendancy. The CEO in question doesn't even have to have good customer service skills, but his employees do, he is the man that has to have good business skills.

I am just like you and don't like bending over for some A%se whole of a guy to shaft me. Trust me I've been in the aviation game too long to let them get their way. I always fight my corner when I think I have a case as you quite rightly did here. However there are ways of pushing the right buttons in people to get the right results. Even if you have the best people skills in the world and the still say no then you have to take it on the chin, turn your back and quietly think they are a w&*ker. You can't fly off the handle without prior consideration as that is not a good quality for a Professional Pilot.

Remember we are professionals and we should be proud of it, but we all work for business. Businesses that are owned by businessmen. Its their train set and they can play with it as they wish.

Keep at it and I wish you all the luck in the future when trying to find a nicer company.

[Daysleeper]

If you are getting "hundreds of cv's" whats the smegging point of spending however much it is advertising in Flight? Dont sound like business sense to me.

[headyheights]

First of all I'm not saying whats right or wrong. Perhaps the company in question were looking for a certain type of person eg Jet Time, Corporate Aviation experience etc. Perhaps all the "100's of CV's" were not quite what he wanted, maybe thats why he advertised.

Neither you nor I know where he got the pilots to fill the positions but I would guess that once news got out that this company were recruiting then pilots probably came available by word of mouth. This probably happened after the advert was arranged.

I don't know how much business sense this man has got but I think he's probably got more than you or I as he has successfully developed the company that he know owns.

I say again "Perhaps all the "100's of CV's" were not quite what he wanted". Well if you are one of these CV's you need to get yourself noticed in order to get the job. Having an argument with the Cheif Executive is not the way!

I want to make it clear that I am not trying to put anyone down here, I've been in the same boat too! I do however know the corporate aviation market and it is small. I tell you everyone knows each other - nationwide. You may find that the CEO will play golf next week with the CEO of another company and tell his story - you get my drift. Its his company and he can run it how he likes. One day when we all grow up we may run our own company. Then we can run that how we choose.

I wish Mikepops all the luck in the world when finding a job.

Headyheights

[sybt]

mikepops

I must say that i found your attitude appalling. Why would the CEO of any company feel the need to give you an explanation, when he was good enough to reply to you promptly himself and advise you that your cv would be kept on file, you are lucky if you get a reply from a secretary from most companies these days.

As a successful applicant to the company I have to say I found him to be a likable and fair person.

As far as im aware they will be recruiytng further later in the year and had you done your research on the company before applying you may have discovered this. Unfortunately it seems you have most likely burnt your bridges.

I cant stress enough how right headyheights is in regards to aviation being such a small world, and unfortunately we are 10 a penny to them these days. As frustrating as it is the aviation world does not automatically owe us a nice big shiny plane these days, we have to get noticed by the way we conduct ourselves.

I hope you can respect all our comments and learn by your mistake and put it behind you.

I wish you luck and hope you get your break soon.

[Yarpy]

mikepops, some advice from an old hand.

It is your employability that an airline is concerned about most of all. A lot of young pilots, due to no fault of their own, lack a basic idea of what an airline wants from a pilot as an employee. Interview coaching can sort this issue out

Have a look at:

http://www.pennyaustin.btinternet.co.uk/img00001.gif

Take my advice. For your next job application think:

'softly, softly, catchy monkey! '.