Unbelievable newbie questions
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You might not have any flying experience, but that doesnt actualy matter despite what people say. The airlines are simply looking for someone with the capacity and willingness to learn. Im currently on the CTC scheme, and started it without having done a single hour. Give it a go, if you're good enough then you'll get in. Thats all that counts.
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Well, thanks for the replies people.
Reckon I'll at least give the CTC scheme a shot - at the very least there is nothing to lose.
Fully agree with people that you must have a good motivation for the job....which in my case would be a desperate desire to avoid the typical desk job (sorry accountants!). Anybody who thinks 4am starts and working hours piloting are crazy should consider the minimum city work week of 60hours (going upto 100 for some nutters in corp fin).
Also agree that motivation is only part of the picture. For example, a couple of other guys at uni I know got trading jobs without having even read the company website. Basically they pulled this off cos they're massively intelligent and graced with the gift of the gab....for which I could get 'sour grapes', but really they deserved them.(actually, maybe I am just a tad jealous!)
I think my main challenge will be to convince my interviewer that I am committed to the training, dodgy work hours etc. of piloting without having had the desire to climb into a plane since I was 5...which I reckon I should be able to do given my choice of highly exciting alternative careers.
Reckon I'll at least give the CTC scheme a shot - at the very least there is nothing to lose.
Fully agree with people that you must have a good motivation for the job....which in my case would be a desperate desire to avoid the typical desk job (sorry accountants!). Anybody who thinks 4am starts and working hours piloting are crazy should consider the minimum city work week of 60hours (going upto 100 for some nutters in corp fin).
Also agree that motivation is only part of the picture. For example, a couple of other guys at uni I know got trading jobs without having even read the company website. Basically they pulled this off cos they're massively intelligent and graced with the gift of the gab....for which I could get 'sour grapes', but really they deserved them.(actually, maybe I am just a tad jealous!)
I think my main challenge will be to convince my interviewer that I am committed to the training, dodgy work hours etc. of piloting without having had the desire to climb into a plane since I was 5...which I reckon I should be able to do given my choice of highly exciting alternative careers.
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You have quite a lot a generalisations about accountants on this thread which are quite frankly rubbish. As a chartered accountant, the skill set and personalities within my profession are generally as varied as those within the airline industry - both in the flight deck and beyond. Within my graduate year, we have three persons, myself included, who were aiming to fly professionally prior to 9/11 or are now aiming to do so.
Cumulonimbus
If you profess such views in the flightdeck, you will make a lot of people hate you. Backgrounds of those you will or do fly with are as varied as they come, and your assertion that what I do is mind-numbing is quite frankly ignorant. I would invite you to sort out reporting to New York on quartely figures, while managing a team who sits in London while you have been sent to Dublin to coordinate a financial controls project, having got up at 4:30am and working to 10pm in the hotel. It is one of the most team-focused professions that there are anywhere outside of aviation in my experience.
Alex
Whatever. Firstly, people in finance departments are not generally all accountants by trade. The FD and some finance staff and analysts are accountants by trade. The budgets are set, and managers - be they pilot managers or whoever else run the budgets. They are they ones who then crunch their numbers to ensure that they look as good as possilble, and are often responsible for the petty penny-pinching you witness in companies - simly as they are useless at seeing the big picture and running their budgets adequately. Accountants are only a part of the team that goes from them at the top to you at the bottom.
Milhouse, having said this, I would agree with the other commentators that your commitment needs to be far greater than 'it sounds good', and there are a large number of us who are aiming to enter the industry who have great commitment demonstrated through what we have done in the past, and how we have demonstrated our other capabilities beyond the academic. I wish you luck, as you are asking the right questions. Don't be put off by people like Bertie, as not everyone is born knowing what they want to do, nor is it anyone's god-given right. Get off flight sim and pay for a trial lesson though - otherwise you really won't know what you are appyling for, nor whether you really love it.
The Mole; the city has changed a great deal in the last 12 months - from a hige defecit of jobs for people, there are now huge opportunities and salaries have shot up for new graduates by a huge extent.
Sorry for the rant, but the portrayal of my profession as beancounters in a repetitive job is simply untrue of the reality and I am tired of having to defend it every day.
Cumulonimbus
If your alternative bent is accountancy, I suspect you won't have the right attributes to succeed in flying. Most pilots I know could never be accountants; they don't have the attention span or thrill of working in what they would consider to be a 'mind numbing' profession.
Alex
They employ pilots as managers because they think they can communicate with the workforce and they know they can't.
Milhouse, having said this, I would agree with the other commentators that your commitment needs to be far greater than 'it sounds good', and there are a large number of us who are aiming to enter the industry who have great commitment demonstrated through what we have done in the past, and how we have demonstrated our other capabilities beyond the academic. I wish you luck, as you are asking the right questions. Don't be put off by people like Bertie, as not everyone is born knowing what they want to do, nor is it anyone's god-given right. Get off flight sim and pay for a trial lesson though - otherwise you really won't know what you are appyling for, nor whether you really love it.
The Mole; the city has changed a great deal in the last 12 months - from a hige defecit of jobs for people, there are now huge opportunities and salaries have shot up for new graduates by a huge extent.
Sorry for the rant, but the portrayal of my profession as beancounters in a repetitive job is simply untrue of the reality and I am tired of having to defend it every day.
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Just wanted to add my 2p in here. Milhouse, it boils down to this fact:
If there are two people attending an interview, you being one of them, you need to think about why you would get the job.
If you have read this particular part of the forum well, you will have seen how many of us wannabees are out here. I will be the first to admit that a first in Maths is admirable, but there will be plenty of others out there that have the same academice qualifications, and extra-curricular activities.
It will boil down to one question. Who wants it more. Because if you're going for a sponsorship against another well placed candidate, they're going to pick the person that wants it most, the person that has always, and will always strive to acheive their dream. Its a safer bet.
On that note, if you get to interview and are asked what you'll do if you dont get sponsorship? Answer that you'll go and become an accountant, and you'll get shown the door.
All thats left is to wish you good luck.
If there are two people attending an interview, you being one of them, you need to think about why you would get the job.
If you have read this particular part of the forum well, you will have seen how many of us wannabees are out here. I will be the first to admit that a first in Maths is admirable, but there will be plenty of others out there that have the same academice qualifications, and extra-curricular activities.
It will boil down to one question. Who wants it more. Because if you're going for a sponsorship against another well placed candidate, they're going to pick the person that wants it most, the person that has always, and will always strive to acheive their dream. Its a safer bet.
On that note, if you get to interview and are asked what you'll do if you dont get sponsorship? Answer that you'll go and become an accountant, and you'll get shown the door.
All thats left is to wish you good luck.
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Reheat: I was using the term 'accountants' as a catch-all for senior management with a financial bent. I agree with you completely, pilots underrate the contribution the financial profession make to an airline. That was the point of my post.
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Ok, now we've finished discussing the differences between accountants and pilots, lets try and get back on track! I think too many people have been misunderstood on here and the trail has been further confused by the occasional crossover from the Professional Accountants Rumour Network.
Being honest, nobody should be telling anybody else NOT to do something. I think the point that has been made here is that you may find yourself somewhat disadvanted turning up for interview and being surrounded by people who talk 'vaguely knowledgeably' about the industry. Their lifelong passion to fly isnt necessarily what will get them through, but the knowledge/ideas that have been picked up along the way might.
This is just a disadvantage. This is not a reason for you not to get it. A colleague of mine used to be an estate agent, then worked as a salesman. He'd always liked the idea of flying so took it up. 10 years later, he's a Training Captain on an Airbus and flys regularly in his spare time. If you were to tell him he didn't want it enough, you'd probably earn yourself a slap! If you really throw yourself into it, you can get it and you can enjoy a very rewarding career at the end of it.
Advice - without the advantage of years of desire behind you, now is the time to make sure you do your homework. Some of these books on interview technique and aptitude questions are fairly useless, but some could save your bacon at an assessment centre. Definitely go and do a couple of trial flights, if for nothing else than to boost your own confidence and, hopefully, your desire.
The comments made earlier are correct, most pilots have wanted to fly all their lives (me included) but this only helps us because we have years of acquired knowledge when we get to interview. However, for somebody intelligent (as it sounds like you are), you can certainly learn enough by reading books, websites and monitoring great sites such as PPrune!
You may never know more than some of those you'll be up against but life experience can count for a lot and you may find that being a more rounded and worldly individual will leave you in a better position to do a training course than somebody who knows very little outside of their 'niche', i.e. aviation.
All anybody can do is their best and if you don't try you don't get. (ah, the cliches come out now!). Do your homework before you go and I wish you all the very best. Let us know how you get on!
FJ2k
Being honest, nobody should be telling anybody else NOT to do something. I think the point that has been made here is that you may find yourself somewhat disadvanted turning up for interview and being surrounded by people who talk 'vaguely knowledgeably' about the industry. Their lifelong passion to fly isnt necessarily what will get them through, but the knowledge/ideas that have been picked up along the way might.
This is just a disadvantage. This is not a reason for you not to get it. A colleague of mine used to be an estate agent, then worked as a salesman. He'd always liked the idea of flying so took it up. 10 years later, he's a Training Captain on an Airbus and flys regularly in his spare time. If you were to tell him he didn't want it enough, you'd probably earn yourself a slap! If you really throw yourself into it, you can get it and you can enjoy a very rewarding career at the end of it.
Advice - without the advantage of years of desire behind you, now is the time to make sure you do your homework. Some of these books on interview technique and aptitude questions are fairly useless, but some could save your bacon at an assessment centre. Definitely go and do a couple of trial flights, if for nothing else than to boost your own confidence and, hopefully, your desire.
The comments made earlier are correct, most pilots have wanted to fly all their lives (me included) but this only helps us because we have years of acquired knowledge when we get to interview. However, for somebody intelligent (as it sounds like you are), you can certainly learn enough by reading books, websites and monitoring great sites such as PPrune!
You may never know more than some of those you'll be up against but life experience can count for a lot and you may find that being a more rounded and worldly individual will leave you in a better position to do a training course than somebody who knows very little outside of their 'niche', i.e. aviation.
All anybody can do is their best and if you don't try you don't get. (ah, the cliches come out now!). Do your homework before you go and I wish you all the very best. Let us know how you get on!
FJ2k
Last edited by fastjet2k; 10th Nov 2004 at 23:41.
