Parc Aviation and Air Asia
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Draw your own conclusions
Facts as sent out in their contract of employment to a friend of mine;
1. Employment contract for 3 years, starting after your training and on your first 'duty day', extendable.
2. Salary RM3,500 (Ringgits) per month at roughly 7 to the pound, no mention in the contract of any increases during the three year period.
3. Non-compulsory EPF (Employee Provident fund) 11% employee contribution, 12% by company.
4. Allowances. Sector Meal Allowance only.
5. Company bonuses, at discretion of company. 50% held back for expats until completion of contract.
6. Share Options. Only after 3 years service.
7. Minimum Hours. You are required to complete 2000hrs minimum during your contract period.
8. Notice Period. You are required to give 6 months notice during and subsequent to the initial 3 year contract (provided you have completed 2000hrs). Company can give you only 3 months notice.
9. Uniforms provided.
10. Employer can change your base with 4 weeks notice.
11. Medical Expenses Allowance. RM600 per year.
12. Annual Leave. 28 days per year including Public Holidays, the company reserving the right to increase or decrease that number.
13. Employee required to have a land-line phone and a mobile at your cost to allow the company to contact you at ANY time.
14. Accommodation. Required to live within 60minutes of Flight Ops Centre.
Make your own choice as to whether you think these good enough or not.
PP
1. Employment contract for 3 years, starting after your training and on your first 'duty day', extendable.
2. Salary RM3,500 (Ringgits) per month at roughly 7 to the pound, no mention in the contract of any increases during the three year period.
3. Non-compulsory EPF (Employee Provident fund) 11% employee contribution, 12% by company.
4. Allowances. Sector Meal Allowance only.
5. Company bonuses, at discretion of company. 50% held back for expats until completion of contract.
6. Share Options. Only after 3 years service.
7. Minimum Hours. You are required to complete 2000hrs minimum during your contract period.
8. Notice Period. You are required to give 6 months notice during and subsequent to the initial 3 year contract (provided you have completed 2000hrs). Company can give you only 3 months notice.
9. Uniforms provided.
10. Employer can change your base with 4 weeks notice.
11. Medical Expenses Allowance. RM600 per year.
12. Annual Leave. 28 days per year including Public Holidays, the company reserving the right to increase or decrease that number.
13. Employee required to have a land-line phone and a mobile at your cost to allow the company to contact you at ANY time.
14. Accommodation. Required to live within 60minutes of Flight Ops Centre.
Make your own choice as to whether you think these good enough or not.
PP
Join Date: Jun 2001
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ROFLOL..... if these are indeed the terms & conditions, such employment is fit only for the truly desperate ( read, 'stupid' ) or the elsewise unemployable ! (imho).
I.e. putting it into perspective, UK based aircraft cleaners ( and a fine bunch of people they are too ) have better T&C's, and where indeed this is even less than many cabin crew ( where they, in turn, earn less than the cleaners - go figure
) !
I.e. putting it into perspective, UK based aircraft cleaners ( and a fine bunch of people they are too ) have better T&C's, and where indeed this is even less than many cabin crew ( where they, in turn, earn less than the cleaners - go figure
) !
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Speechless.
I've just been to Malaysia/Thailand. The cost of a beer is more than here in London! Surely there must be something missing? Big sector pay??
This is supposed to be a respected profession. How are the pilots expected to go about their duties professionally when they are treated as such.
Then again, at the time I didn't complain at shedding out £16 inclusive on one of their flights. I guess a compromise is needed, but then again there are much more fare paying passengers than wannabe airline pilots out there....
I've just been to Malaysia/Thailand. The cost of a beer is more than here in London! Surely there must be something missing? Big sector pay??
This is supposed to be a respected profession. How are the pilots expected to go about their duties professionally when they are treated as such.
Then again, at the time I didn't complain at shedding out £16 inclusive on one of their flights. I guess a compromise is needed, but then again there are much more fare paying passengers than wannabe airline pilots out there....
Join Date: May 2004
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I would like to clarify;
The contract Pilot Pete talks of is not Parc's, but one offered to Oxford Graduates through a scheme with GECAT.
Parc guys (i believe) get paid $2000US a month.
The contract recieved at GECAT has NO mention of any allowances except meal allowance. The presentation given to Oxford graduates gave RM3000 a month as allowances, although I reiterate - the contract itself does not mention these allowances.
JP
The contract Pilot Pete talks of is not Parc's, but one offered to Oxford Graduates through a scheme with GECAT.
Parc guys (i believe) get paid $2000US a month.
The contract recieved at GECAT has NO mention of any allowances except meal allowance. The presentation given to Oxford graduates gave RM3000 a month as allowances, although I reiterate - the contract itself does not mention these allowances.
JP
Join Date: Jun 2004
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"Including sector pay it is RM6500 a month - which is just short of £1000."
"Not great but "c'est la vie" at the moment"
Its funny...when I was offered a job...and informed that I was expected to contribute to my type-rating....I told them in the nicest possible way...to stick it
....and guess what I then got offered the job anyway (and no I didnt know anyone) earning over 3 times the above monthy figure...(on turbo-props)
So Utrinque as you say "c'est la vie"
moral of the story..? dont prostitute yourselves people.
Oh and I think it was Petes great CV job that got me the interview!
Cheers H
"Not great but "c'est la vie" at the moment"
Its funny...when I was offered a job...and informed that I was expected to contribute to my type-rating....I told them in the nicest possible way...to stick it
....and guess what I then got offered the job anyway (and no I didnt know anyone) earning over 3 times the above monthy figure...(on turbo-props)So Utrinque as you say "c'est la vie"
moral of the story..? dont prostitute yourselves people.
Oh and I think it was Petes great CV job that got me the interview!
Cheers H
Join Date: Jul 2004
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(You are guaranteed a job on completion of the TR)
Are you guaranteed, are you b*llocks!
Are you trying to say there is not a clause in the contract in the case of 'force majeure' let's say should an airline go tits-up?
Any company that tells you anything in aviation is guaranteed is, at best, being economical with the truth.
Are you guaranteed, are you b*llocks!
Are you trying to say there is not a clause in the contract in the case of 'force majeure' let's say should an airline go tits-up?
Any company that tells you anything in aviation is guaranteed is, at best, being economical with the truth.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Air Asia has just placed an order for an extra 50 aircraft - boeing and airbus are fighting over the remaining 30 to make it 80 new aircraft. This airline is expanding and getting stronger. The LCC market in the far east is just beginning.
The job is there if you pass the Type Rating; there are no hidden clauses - I have seen the contract.
The job is there if you pass the Type Rating; there are no hidden clauses - I have seen the contract.
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So if there is no force majeure clause in the contract then you are clearly being misled.
What if AA and Parc have a major falling out, Parc have offered you a contract but AA wouldn't want to take any more Parc pilots. AA don't have a problem, they haven't signed a contract with you, Parc would have a problem but they'd probably terminate your training claiming force majeure or similar, you'd be the one with the problem.
And should 9/11 re-occur during your training but this time such an incident occur in Asia, do you really believe that a contract with Parc is a guaranteed job? Dream on!
What if AA and Parc have a major falling out, Parc have offered you a contract but AA wouldn't want to take any more Parc pilots. AA don't have a problem, they haven't signed a contract with you, Parc would have a problem but they'd probably terminate your training claiming force majeure or similar, you'd be the one with the problem.
And should 9/11 re-occur during your training but this time such an incident occur in Asia, do you really believe that a contract with Parc is a guaranteed job? Dream on!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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All fairly negative stuff PF. If we all got out of bed wondering when and where the next 9/11 was going to happen it would be a depressing place!
Do you get in your car each morning wondering if you are going to survive the journey?
If it makes you sleep any better - a good deal of Asia is Moslem and therefore a 9/11 type attack there; while not impossible is a little less likely.
If AA and PARC fall out then yes it would be a drama - but given the amount of money invloved another 9/11 in Asia is more likely.
However if you wish to be pedantic about the 'guaranteed' you are right - nothing in life is ever guaranteed - but this is as close as you can get to it.
Sleep well whilst I dream on!
Do you get in your car each morning wondering if you are going to survive the journey?
If it makes you sleep any better - a good deal of Asia is Moslem and therefore a 9/11 type attack there; while not impossible is a little less likely.
If AA and PARC fall out then yes it would be a drama - but given the amount of money invloved another 9/11 in Asia is more likely.
However if you wish to be pedantic about the 'guaranteed' you are right - nothing in life is ever guaranteed - but this is as close as you can get to it.
Sleep well whilst I dream on!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Utrinque,
I speak the truth and I make no apologies if that offends. No, I do not get out of bed in the morning in a depressive state however I have been around this industry for some 25 years so I do know what goes on.
Air Asia are taking pilots from several agencies, not only Parc, if one particular agency were to provide below-par pilots then AA would simply terminate that agency and increase pilot input from the other agencies.
From what I've heard of the standard of training being provided by one particular agency, no name mentioned but you work it out, it would not surprise me at all if that agency found it's Air Asia contract being terminated.
The Malaysian CAA are paying very close attention to this operation, AA can't do anything without the CAA say-so and if pilots are arriving below-par, well watch this space. What 'amount of money involved' are you talking about, Parc charge for the type rating, take all the profits, there is no kick-back to AA, they simply provide the trained pilot to AA so in a monetary sense, why are AA so far supposedly in bed with Parc?
No, I am not trying to spread doom and gloom. Too many guys, perhaps through naivity use that word 'guaranteed' however it seems you agree that a job with Air Asia, through Parc, is not guaranteed.
I speak the truth and I make no apologies if that offends. No, I do not get out of bed in the morning in a depressive state however I have been around this industry for some 25 years so I do know what goes on.
Air Asia are taking pilots from several agencies, not only Parc, if one particular agency were to provide below-par pilots then AA would simply terminate that agency and increase pilot input from the other agencies.
From what I've heard of the standard of training being provided by one particular agency, no name mentioned but you work it out, it would not surprise me at all if that agency found it's Air Asia contract being terminated.
The Malaysian CAA are paying very close attention to this operation, AA can't do anything without the CAA say-so and if pilots are arriving below-par, well watch this space. What 'amount of money involved' are you talking about, Parc charge for the type rating, take all the profits, there is no kick-back to AA, they simply provide the trained pilot to AA so in a monetary sense, why are AA so far supposedly in bed with Parc?
No, I am not trying to spread doom and gloom. Too many guys, perhaps through naivity use that word 'guaranteed' however it seems you agree that a job with Air Asia, through Parc, is not guaranteed.
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One other item of significant concern in buying a rating, especially considering the pay levels in the Far East, is discovering business plans have had to change. The company wants to expand, would take you on but there simply is no 737 or A320 airframe for you to fly.
Those higher up in the food chain have known this for a long time as the market shifts lease rates ever upward for these two types. 10/15% up so far this year and, sadly, shifting out of the sights of some startups and their business plans.
Far Eastern leasing companies and airlines have finally gone public on this. A critical shortage of aircraft and thus no seats for us to populate whatever our level of experience. The biggest leasing company out there estimates only 20 airframes being available for lease next year. Many companies are relying on a major US carrier to go bust but demand is so high some expect none or just very few of the airframes would leave the States.
This may all seem very dry, distant and remote from your enthusiastic desire to fly but at the end of the day you have to pay off loans or finance and make a living.
Caveat Emptor
Regards
Rob Lloyd
Those higher up in the food chain have known this for a long time as the market shifts lease rates ever upward for these two types. 10/15% up so far this year and, sadly, shifting out of the sights of some startups and their business plans.
Far Eastern leasing companies and airlines have finally gone public on this. A critical shortage of aircraft and thus no seats for us to populate whatever our level of experience. The biggest leasing company out there estimates only 20 airframes being available for lease next year. Many companies are relying on a major US carrier to go bust but demand is so high some expect none or just very few of the airframes would leave the States.
This may all seem very dry, distant and remote from your enthusiastic desire to fly but at the end of the day you have to pay off loans or finance and make a living.
Caveat Emptor
Regards
Rob Lloyd
