Having to pay for Type Ratings as well!
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Forget fATPL's paying for Type Ratings people with full ATPL's are paying for them through easyJet's TRSS etc.
As long as people pay for their own licence I am sure people will pay for their type rating if they think it will get them a Jet Job.
Try getting a jet job in the states as your first. It just doesn't happen there.....
As long as people pay for their own licence I am sure people will pay for their type rating if they think it will get them a Jet Job.
Try getting a jet job in the states as your first. It just doesn't happen there.....
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So what's been the point of this thread?
Are you saying that before you start your flight training you need to have enough money to hand over to your chosen FTO, plus thousands more for a type rating afterwards, and of course, the money to support yourself whilst all of this takes place, plus more for a couple years of unemployment, before hopefully securing a hotly contested job, that might pay just enough for you to serve these loans and maybe have a couple of quid left for a pint?
Could someone tell me how much that might add up to?
Are you saying that before you start your flight training you need to have enough money to hand over to your chosen FTO, plus thousands more for a type rating afterwards, and of course, the money to support yourself whilst all of this takes place, plus more for a couple years of unemployment, before hopefully securing a hotly contested job, that might pay just enough for you to serve these loans and maybe have a couple of quid left for a pint?
Could someone tell me how much that might add up to?
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Or you could go modular and it costs about 35k not including type rating.
PPL+Hour Build = 10k
CPL+IR = 18k
ATPL's = 3k
MCC = 2k
Bits 'n' Bobs = 2k
This isn't exact, but even if everything went over budget and you needed accommodation its still going to be easily sub 50k
2 WINGS
PPL+Hour Build = 10k
CPL+IR = 18k
ATPL's = 3k
MCC = 2k
Bits 'n' Bobs = 2k
This isn't exact, but even if everything went over budget and you needed accommodation its still going to be easily sub 50k
2 WINGS
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2 wings and a PRAYER
i wont even dignify that post with a response other than to say i do hope you are never in charge of working out the fuel requirement in any plane i am a passenger in!
i wont even dignify that post with a response other than to say i do hope you are never in charge of working out the fuel requirement in any plane i am a passenger in!
PPRuNe Co-Pilot
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Hello,
This is the reason why im on the modular path... For half of the price...
Is it my intention to buy a type rating later on? Only as a last resort... But if the industry continues as it is, i will have to get a rating in the end.
But this is my opinion after doing heaps of research, modular was for me.
This is the reason why im on the modular path... For half of the price...
Is it my intention to buy a type rating later on? Only as a last resort... But if the industry continues as it is, i will have to get a rating in the end.
But this is my opinion after doing heaps of research, modular was for me.
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Err... Malcom, Stapleford Flight Center do the PPL, Hour Building, ATPL, CPL, IR, MCC, 737 Type rating and 100 hours on type for £49,995. So im not that far out but if you want to spend £100,000+ then you go right ahead! Makes no odds to me.
2 WINGS
2 WINGS
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Hi All
Interesting thread. I think it brings the following points forward and should also be at the front of everyone's mind before parting with cash for training.
(Hose this isn't a dig at you, more for people about to part with half a house for flight training)
1. Plan worst case scenario, risk management. This is for anyone thinking of parting with thousands of pounds for flight training. Obviously one route is to minimise the initial expenditure (modular etc as discussed)
In that risk management one has to reduce the financial strain as you say. That means making a decision between something that might meet the loan repayments comfortably after the course or.... perhaps a bit less money with the focus on networking to put that loan to work.
2. As someone else said, approach Oxford with your concerns, ask them what they are doing for you, ask them how they are addressing their "careers" part of the APP. I appreciate that Oxford will tell you they are doing all they can and you dont want to "rock the boat" if they are doing stuff for you, but at the same time if it's part of a service you paid for then no harm in asking.
I too will be in the same shoes as you soon. So far (as of this Friday) there are 10 APP graduates from Oxford, all in the same situation as you. One of the guys has a website and he posts all the APP names with dates that people complete so we can see if anyone manages to get anything.
Of all the courses that have websites sure you can find it.
I will do a search on here, there must be a thread that exists regarding "what did you do after leaving Oxford" and I'm not referring to the bankruptcy one !!
Remember the old phrase, throw enough s**t at the wall and eventually some will stick.
flystudent
Interesting thread. I think it brings the following points forward and should also be at the front of everyone's mind before parting with cash for training.
(Hose this isn't a dig at you, more for people about to part with half a house for flight training)
1. Plan worst case scenario, risk management. This is for anyone thinking of parting with thousands of pounds for flight training. Obviously one route is to minimise the initial expenditure (modular etc as discussed)
In that risk management one has to reduce the financial strain as you say. That means making a decision between something that might meet the loan repayments comfortably after the course or.... perhaps a bit less money with the focus on networking to put that loan to work.
2. As someone else said, approach Oxford with your concerns, ask them what they are doing for you, ask them how they are addressing their "careers" part of the APP. I appreciate that Oxford will tell you they are doing all they can and you dont want to "rock the boat" if they are doing stuff for you, but at the same time if it's part of a service you paid for then no harm in asking.
I too will be in the same shoes as you soon. So far (as of this Friday) there are 10 APP graduates from Oxford, all in the same situation as you. One of the guys has a website and he posts all the APP names with dates that people complete so we can see if anyone manages to get anything.
Of all the courses that have websites sure you can find it.
I will do a search on here, there must be a thread that exists regarding "what did you do after leaving Oxford" and I'm not referring to the bankruptcy one !!
Remember the old phrase, throw enough s**t at the wall and eventually some will stick.
flystudent
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The problem is that there are toomany mugs coming into aviation. Sometimes I find it hard to believe that some posts here are written by people above the age of 16. The level of naivette worries me, I can't believe that in a few months/years some of these people will be flying million £ jets with hundreds of punters around the globe.
Too many people are getting suckered into believing that if the pay for this or that gimmick that they are guaranteed or owed a job.
Too many people are being suckered into believing that once you've got a job on 737s that you're totally sorted, especially on the financial side of things. At the moment there are new jet FOs who are having to live in their cars, oh how glamorous . How much do new FOs get paid? £40-50k, yeah right. Do you realise that in certain airlines you'll barely earn anything in your first 6-12mths.
Now if mgmt get their way at certain airlines, people will start paying for their own sims and HOTAC, and i see a lot of mugs who posting here who will go along with that, "at least I'm living my dream"
Remember that you need to command respect from the guy in the other seat as well. Unfortunately, leftseaters are becoming increasingly wary of new FOs. We might just see a return to the swinging 50s(?) when the Capt was God. And with the calibre of newbees today, he probably needs to be.
Capt. M
Too many people are getting suckered into believing that if the pay for this or that gimmick that they are guaranteed or owed a job.
Too many people are being suckered into believing that once you've got a job on 737s that you're totally sorted, especially on the financial side of things. At the moment there are new jet FOs who are having to live in their cars, oh how glamorous
. How much do new FOs get paid? £40-50k, yeah right. Do you realise that in certain airlines you'll barely earn anything in your first 6-12mths.Now if mgmt get their way at certain airlines, people will start paying for their own sims and HOTAC, and i see a lot of mugs who posting here who will go along with that, "at least I'm living my dream"
Remember that you need to command respect from the guy in the other seat as well. Unfortunately, leftseaters are becoming increasingly wary of new FOs. We might just see a return to the swinging 50s(?) when the Capt was God. And with the calibre of newbees today, he probably needs to be.
Capt. M
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It's very very sad that once again a simple question from a newly qualified wannabee is turned into a slanging match as to whether Integrated is better/worse than Modular, and which one is cheaper/better value for money.
Basic answer - WHO CARES!
Everyone has the right to choose which path they take to get somewhere. What you have to realise is that whichever way someone chooses to do it, we've all ended up in the same place with a nice blue licence and basically no hope of a job.
What Hose originally asked was basically about funding type ratings, and whether most people considered this cost before training, or how they found the money after training. I imagine those who completed their training a few years ago (pre 9/11) hadn't even considered such a thing - airlines generally took you on, gave you a job, and bonded you.
Post 9/11 it now is the norm to pay for your own type rating. I don't condone this, I think BALPA and the Pilot community should step up and tell the airlines where to go. But unfortunately this will never happen, and those who can afford to self-fund a type rating will stand a better chance of getting a job. Although saying that they still have to get through interviews first!
Various posts have advised getting a job within an airline (Ops, ground, Cabin Crew) all good ideas, and will allow you to network which is the key. Persistence is also the key - keep sending CV's.
I can't be bothered to say much more - most of the posts above have given reasonable advice, but please - ENOUGH OF THE INTEGRATED/MODULAR "MY COURSE WAS BETTER AND CHEAPER THAN YOURS" rubish. If I was interviewing two guys (or girls) for one job, one had done integrated and the other modular, I couldn't give a rat's a**e about who had done which course, and who passed the exams with the highest average. I'd be looking to pick the guy who I could spend 10hrs a day with, working in a close environemt, who didn't have his head up his own backside. And then there'd be the sim check to check out the flying skills. enough said.
Basic answer - WHO CARES!
Everyone has the right to choose which path they take to get somewhere. What you have to realise is that whichever way someone chooses to do it, we've all ended up in the same place with a nice blue licence and basically no hope of a job.
What Hose originally asked was basically about funding type ratings, and whether most people considered this cost before training, or how they found the money after training. I imagine those who completed their training a few years ago (pre 9/11) hadn't even considered such a thing - airlines generally took you on, gave you a job, and bonded you.
Post 9/11 it now is the norm to pay for your own type rating. I don't condone this, I think BALPA and the Pilot community should step up and tell the airlines where to go. But unfortunately this will never happen, and those who can afford to self-fund a type rating will stand a better chance of getting a job. Although saying that they still have to get through interviews first!
Various posts have advised getting a job within an airline (Ops, ground, Cabin Crew) all good ideas, and will allow you to network which is the key. Persistence is also the key - keep sending CV's.
I can't be bothered to say much more - most of the posts above have given reasonable advice, but please - ENOUGH OF THE INTEGRATED/MODULAR "MY COURSE WAS BETTER AND CHEAPER THAN YOURS" rubish. If I was interviewing two guys (or girls) for one job, one had done integrated and the other modular, I couldn't give a rat's a**e about who had done which course, and who passed the exams with the highest average. I'd be looking to pick the guy who I could spend 10hrs a day with, working in a close environemt, who didn't have his head up his own backside. And then there'd be the sim check to check out the flying skills. enough said.
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yea not a bad post er82
i am actually a training skipper on 737`s and i can assure all you new lads pileing out of the schools - you will be paying for your ratings!
oh, and i can tell you another thing, my mates in management are already saying that if the numbers of low hour guys desperate to get into this game continue to rise you will end up getting paid less than cabin crew.
its just business
i am actually a training skipper on 737`s and i can assure all you new lads pileing out of the schools - you will be paying for your ratings!
oh, and i can tell you another thing, my mates in management are already saying that if the numbers of low hour guys desperate to get into this game continue to rise you will end up getting paid less than cabin crew.
its just business
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we've all ended up in the same place with a nice blue licence and basically no hope of a job.
It's common sense, i think
But yes you are entirely right, it's your decision at the end of the day.
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malcom in the middle,
That was a nice comment above. I've never met a pilot yet who has had to pay for their type rating. You are incorrect, quite simply. As for the cabin crew comment, well, I think it's been like that for a while anyway to be honest.
That was a nice comment above. I've never met a pilot yet who has had to pay for their type rating. You are incorrect, quite simply. As for the cabin crew comment, well, I think it's been like that for a while anyway to be honest.
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As a side issue...Malcolm in the middle..... £120 ??
Are you talking about spending that in the UK or overseas equivalent ? I imagine the "bang you get for your buck" varies significantly as one travels the world.
Some locations I am sure perceived to be better value for your money. As a nealry qualified wannabe this is priceless information. I will need to be armed with such information so that once I start fighting off those FO job offers I can start to choose based on many criteria, knowledge is priceless
Are you talking about spending that in the UK or overseas equivalent ? I imagine the "bang you get for your buck" varies significantly as one travels the world.
Some locations I am sure perceived to be better value for your money. As a nealry qualified wannabe this is priceless information. I will need to be armed with such information so that once I start fighting off those FO job offers I can start to choose based on many criteria, knowledge is priceless
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you are indeed correct however the groutesque things i have them do to me dont come cheap where ever you are in the world.
oh, and when you do get started son (and with an attitude like that to this facinating area of our work it wont be too long) yet another expense you wont read about anywhere is having to pay for guys like me doing the `checking` when your on your line checks
shelling out to be in this game never stops
oh, and when you do get started son (and with an attitude like that to this facinating area of our work it wont be too long) yet another expense you wont read about anywhere is having to pay for guys like me doing the `checking` when your on your line checks
shelling out to be in this game never stops
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Airway - Don't forget not all would see the 'extra 35k' as a waste. I chose to do an integrated course because of the structure. I'm quite happy with my choice so don't go telling me I've wasted my money.
Whilst you might think it is a waste, I'm assuming that the current numbers of guys/gals still choosing to do the integrated route would also show that many others don't see it as a waste.
Whilst you might think it is a waste, I'm assuming that the current numbers of guys/gals still choosing to do the integrated route would also show that many others don't see it as a waste.
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er82,
Well it is "MY" opinion... And "MY opinion is, that integrated is a waste of money, you might not agree fair enought thats "YOUR" opinion, which you are entitled to. You might not agree with it, and you have put your point across and i respect it.
As for, what i shouldnt say, no comments because im not in the mood to start arguing.
And like i said in my previous post @ the end of the day everyone makes it's own decisions, to suit themselves.
Airway
Well it is "MY" opinion... And "MY opinion is, that integrated is a waste of money, you might not agree fair enought thats "YOUR" opinion, which you are entitled to. You might not agree with it, and you have put your point across and i respect it.
As for, what i shouldnt say, no comments because im not in the mood to start arguing.
And like i said in my previous post @ the end of the day everyone makes it's own decisions, to suit themselves.
Airway
Last edited by AIRWAY; 16th Aug 2004 at 20:03.