One Year After Joining Easy, Ryan, BA, Brits, TC, Astreaus - Met Your Expectations?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One Year After Joining Easy, Ryan, BA, Brits, TC, Astreaus - Met Your Expectations?
Just curious about those lucky individuals who started with a few hundred flight hours and through sponsorships or paid-for-training programs, ulimately made in on with airlines like BA, Easy, Ryanair, Brits, BMI and Astreaus - how do you like it after say a year or so on the line? Many of us are trying to get where you are now and it is both emotionally and financially draining... So, a few questions for anyone lucky enough to respond:
1. How do you like your airline (list yours from those above)? What are the best/worst aspects of your airline?
2. Does flying the line meet your original expectations? How does it differ from your expectations?
3. How do you like flying your current aircraft (737/757/A319/A320) - what do you like best about it?
4. Any words of wisdom for the rest of us who are trying to replicate your success?
Cheers
1. How do you like your airline (list yours from those above)? What are the best/worst aspects of your airline?
2. Does flying the line meet your original expectations? How does it differ from your expectations?
3. How do you like flying your current aircraft (737/757/A319/A320) - what do you like best about it?
4. Any words of wisdom for the rest of us who are trying to replicate your success?
Cheers
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in the hills
Age: 68
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LVL CHG
In answer to the above questions........
1) Thomas Cook. I joined 4 years ago, before 9/11 however, in the intervening period I have flown on loan and on career break for two other airlines. I will discuss each of them.
TCUK. I love TC. The ethos is friendly but professional. The training is excellent, and opportunities are good too. It will be AGES till command, but who cares? A final salary pension scheme (not for any new joiners though I am sad to say), medical insurances and life cover. Cheap holidays and crew food..... all the things you expect from a good airline really. The best thing is that the management are really approachable in all matters....
Air2000. I spent 3 months on loan there. The people were nice, the management not so nice! The rumblings of discontent amongst the pilots was just beginning, and I believe still continues......
DHL Air. Good outfit. Very professional. Management were a bit odd though at the high levels. Not good for low hours guys, you will only do 300 hours a year there. Very stable and secure though.
#####
2) The flying is great. Very few night flights, the captains and crew are great and we have a ball. Rosters in my base (STN) are VERY stable. Less stable and more flying at GLA,MAN and LGW apparently.
#####
3) I fly the A320 now, I love it but am still learning! Previously I flew the 757. It was a great machine to learn on. It had more power than you knew what to do with, and handled like a dream. IMHO a better starting point than an A320.
#####
4) As for the other things, well just work hard, apply to CTC and get lucky!
In answer to the above questions........
1) Thomas Cook. I joined 4 years ago, before 9/11 however, in the intervening period I have flown on loan and on career break for two other airlines. I will discuss each of them.
TCUK. I love TC. The ethos is friendly but professional. The training is excellent, and opportunities are good too. It will be AGES till command, but who cares? A final salary pension scheme (not for any new joiners though I am sad to say), medical insurances and life cover. Cheap holidays and crew food..... all the things you expect from a good airline really. The best thing is that the management are really approachable in all matters....
Air2000. I spent 3 months on loan there. The people were nice, the management not so nice! The rumblings of discontent amongst the pilots was just beginning, and I believe still continues......
DHL Air. Good outfit. Very professional. Management were a bit odd though at the high levels. Not good for low hours guys, you will only do 300 hours a year there. Very stable and secure though.
#####
2) The flying is great. Very few night flights, the captains and crew are great and we have a ball. Rosters in my base (STN) are VERY stable. Less stable and more flying at GLA,MAN and LGW apparently.
#####
3) I fly the A320 now, I love it but am still learning! Previously I flew the 757. It was a great machine to learn on. It had more power than you knew what to do with, and handled like a dream. IMHO a better starting point than an A320.
#####
4) As for the other things, well just work hard, apply to CTC and get lucky!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well
I joined jmc at the same time as wheelbarrow and did the same route as he after 9/11. I however, did not go back to Thomas Cook as I opted for redundancy rather than career break. 16months ago I joined Britannia and don't regret it one bit. All I can say is that is has all the plus points that wheelbarrow mentions about Thomas Cook, with a few more added in to boot.
1. Best aspects.
Very stable roster, even at the biggest bases due to good rostering practices (with things like block window protection)
Flying the 757 and 767-200 and -300. All great aircraft and if you think the 757 has lots of power available, try a long haul a/c on a Palma...........!!
Longhaul mixed in with short and medium haul, with the option to not do it if you don't want to.
Flexible working payments give you the option to sell days off back to the company for a pretty tidy sum should you so choose. This benefits the individual financially and also saves the company millions in sub-charter costs. This aspect is a real plus point compared to an airline where the option to earn more money just isn't there.
Time to command. This has just been slashed from 15 years to about 6-7, due to retirements, medical loss of licence and increase in the longhaul program.
Final salary pension scheme STILL OPEN TO NEW JOINERS. The only one in the industry here in the UK, although the jury are still out in the case of BA.
2. Worst aspects
Lots of weekends, but that's mainly down to me not being 'cute' enough with the bidding, guaranteed days off etc.
Changing market due to low cost operators. Who knows where the charter market will be in 10 years. I think it will be still here, but could well be very different than currently.
3. Current aircraft
Types already covered. Best aspects? As wheelbarrow says, you could do a lot worse than get your hands on a 757 for your first jet type. The 757 is like a sports car, the 767s are more like Aston Martins; bags of power, but very 'gentlemanly' to go with it. Huge flight deck with plenty of space and much quieter than the 757. Never flown a 'bus so can't compare. Looking forward to the 7E7............
4. Words of wisdom
All been said before, but here it is again in a nutshell. Take ANYTHING for that first job and get some experience. Hours means moving up the pile of CVs. Keep plugging away as you get nothing whatsoever in return for all your effort until that one phone call.............. Network at every opportunity and put yourself in the position to get the 'luck' element that is required. If you're low houred and young enough, definitely apply to CTC. The biggest tip of all? Don't cock up the only chance you may get at selection.................
PP
I joined jmc at the same time as wheelbarrow and did the same route as he after 9/11. I however, did not go back to Thomas Cook as I opted for redundancy rather than career break. 16months ago I joined Britannia and don't regret it one bit. All I can say is that is has all the plus points that wheelbarrow mentions about Thomas Cook, with a few more added in to boot.
1. Best aspects.
Very stable roster, even at the biggest bases due to good rostering practices (with things like block window protection)
Flying the 757 and 767-200 and -300. All great aircraft and if you think the 757 has lots of power available, try a long haul a/c on a Palma...........!!
Longhaul mixed in with short and medium haul, with the option to not do it if you don't want to.
Flexible working payments give you the option to sell days off back to the company for a pretty tidy sum should you so choose. This benefits the individual financially and also saves the company millions in sub-charter costs. This aspect is a real plus point compared to an airline where the option to earn more money just isn't there.
Time to command. This has just been slashed from 15 years to about 6-7, due to retirements, medical loss of licence and increase in the longhaul program.
Final salary pension scheme STILL OPEN TO NEW JOINERS. The only one in the industry here in the UK, although the jury are still out in the case of BA.
2. Worst aspects
Lots of weekends, but that's mainly down to me not being 'cute' enough with the bidding, guaranteed days off etc.
Changing market due to low cost operators. Who knows where the charter market will be in 10 years. I think it will be still here, but could well be very different than currently.
3. Current aircraft
Types already covered. Best aspects? As wheelbarrow says, you could do a lot worse than get your hands on a 757 for your first jet type. The 757 is like a sports car, the 767s are more like Aston Martins; bags of power, but very 'gentlemanly' to go with it. Huge flight deck with plenty of space and much quieter than the 757. Never flown a 'bus so can't compare. Looking forward to the 7E7............
4. Words of wisdom
All been said before, but here it is again in a nutshell. Take ANYTHING for that first job and get some experience. Hours means moving up the pile of CVs. Keep plugging away as you get nothing whatsoever in return for all your effort until that one phone call.............. Network at every opportunity and put yourself in the position to get the 'luck' element that is required. If you're low houred and young enough, definitely apply to CTC. The biggest tip of all? Don't cock up the only chance you may get at selection.................
PP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PP and wheelbarrow,
Great responses. I am glad to hear that you recovered so well after 9/11. Personally, I like the variety inherent in the charter flying. The thought of flying nice airplanes like the 757/767 and the A320 to resort destinations vs. the big, busy airline hubs sounds very appealing. Although the night flying aspect of it could be a bit difficult I suppose.
I'd love to hear other perspectives from people who have graduated up to EasyJet, Ryanair, Flybe, BMI and BA - and also other charter flyers. I have read that Easy and Ryan can have very difficult scheduling. Again, how does the flying compare with your original expectations? What do you like and dislike most about your current airline and aircraft?
More responses welcome.
Cheers
Great responses. I am glad to hear that you recovered so well after 9/11. Personally, I like the variety inherent in the charter flying. The thought of flying nice airplanes like the 757/767 and the A320 to resort destinations vs. the big, busy airline hubs sounds very appealing. Although the night flying aspect of it could be a bit difficult I suppose.
I'd love to hear other perspectives from people who have graduated up to EasyJet, Ryanair, Flybe, BMI and BA - and also other charter flyers. I have read that Easy and Ryan can have very difficult scheduling. Again, how does the flying compare with your original expectations? What do you like and dislike most about your current airline and aircraft?
More responses welcome.
Cheers
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gatport Airwick
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Gb Airways. Joined as one of their "jerez cadets" in May 2003 with about 200hours or so. I think its pretty damm fantastic, couple of grumbles about the way the rostering is done, few hellish duty days but nothing that negates from the fact that they actually pay me to go flying!!!!! Throw ina couple of nice nightstops with decent crew, flying into places like Gibraltar and Funchal and its probably the most fun oyu can have with your clothes still on.
2. The flying itself far surpasses anything that I orginally expected, I find myself regularly being stunned by the view out of the window - sun setting behind mount tidi as you climb out from LPA is a big favourite of mine. Flying into Gib never fails to get the pulse racing, the first landing i did there was arguably the most terrifying but exhilirating thing I have ever done. The flying is a lot more tiring than I ever thought it could be - doing 5 or 6 days of solid flying really does take it out of you, especially if things start going tits up. But all in all it is by far and away the best way I can imagine to make money.
3. Flying the A320 and A321, its a great aircraft, has a few "gotchas" that the training dept were sure to drum into us. Was a huge jump straight from the seneca, lot fo hard work had to be done but all worth while! Its very nice to fly (no trim!) extremely comfortable on 5 hour sectors and is a very pleasant place to work. The downside of it is the fact the my actual flying skills have without a doubt goine downhill, even with all the automatics out (which unlike our BA cousins we are actually allowed to do) its still very very automated, I think I would be in for a nasty surprise if I took a light aircraft out for a whirl - when cash becomes more readily available I plan on getting some proper stick and rudder time in. But thats not what you could call a huge gripe!
4. Dont really know what to say with regards to advice to other folk, Im acutely aware that I've been bloody lucky to get into the RHS of a jet straight out of training. All i can say to folk is to work as hard as you can through your training (but have fun too!) and try to keep your chin up when things are getting you down - you'll get there in the end!
2. The flying itself far surpasses anything that I orginally expected, I find myself regularly being stunned by the view out of the window - sun setting behind mount tidi as you climb out from LPA is a big favourite of mine. Flying into Gib never fails to get the pulse racing, the first landing i did there was arguably the most terrifying but exhilirating thing I have ever done. The flying is a lot more tiring than I ever thought it could be - doing 5 or 6 days of solid flying really does take it out of you, especially if things start going tits up. But all in all it is by far and away the best way I can imagine to make money.
3. Flying the A320 and A321, its a great aircraft, has a few "gotchas" that the training dept were sure to drum into us. Was a huge jump straight from the seneca, lot fo hard work had to be done but all worth while! Its very nice to fly (no trim!) extremely comfortable on 5 hour sectors and is a very pleasant place to work. The downside of it is the fact the my actual flying skills have without a doubt goine downhill, even with all the automatics out (which unlike our BA cousins we are actually allowed to do) its still very very automated, I think I would be in for a nasty surprise if I took a light aircraft out for a whirl - when cash becomes more readily available I plan on getting some proper stick and rudder time in. But thats not what you could call a huge gripe!
4. Dont really know what to say with regards to advice to other folk, Im acutely aware that I've been bloody lucky to get into the RHS of a jet straight out of training. All i can say to folk is to work as hard as you can through your training (but have fun too!) and try to keep your chin up when things are getting you down - you'll get there in the end!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like GB Airways would be a great gig - sunny, charter-like destinations without the round-the-clock charter schedule...
Any Easy, Ryanair, BA or Flybe people out there care to also share their impressions and experiences?
Any Easy, Ryanair, BA or Flybe people out there care to also share their impressions and experiences?
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Small point LVL CHG regarding to "Sunny destinations"...
The great thing in this job is that whenever you go to work, you are garanteed to see the sun (Yeah, I know, except at night)... That for me, is a big plus and makes my day.
As for the rest of your question, I join PP on that one. A mixture of procedural work and visual, hand flown circuits.... Great day out !!!
The great thing in this job is that whenever you go to work, you are garanteed to see the sun (Yeah, I know, except at night
)... That for me, is a big plus and makes my day.As for the rest of your question, I join PP on that one. A mixture of procedural work and visual, hand flown circuits.... Great day out !!!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Mars
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. bmi - joined in 1999 following 6 months out of work having self-sponsored through Oxford. Right place, right time, as 5 1/2 years later I'm flying the 319/320/321 and 330 
As far as good and bad points go, pretty much a majority of good points (great variety, great aircraft, great nightstops on longhaul, and most of all, great people to work with). A few negative points that have been much discussed on other threads, but I do try to remain positive 
I am on the move to another company this month, and I'm really looking forward to a new set of challenges!
2. The line flying exceeds my expectations. Seeing the Alps lit up by a beautiful sunrise at 5am, and then flying the length of Africa the next week, followed by a quick hop to Washington the week after that really does blow your mind sometimes! Yes, there are the occasional hassles and the odd 'bad day', but there have been in every job I have done, so flying is no different. What is different is that the 'good days' are fantastic. Greasing the A330 in on a VMC summers day (not that I grease it in too often!) sure beats the good experiences in my previous jobs
3. Of the four types, the 330 is by far the nicest to fly. A very graceful bird, she makes the 320 series feel like small sports cars(esp the 319). A good analogy would be something like the Bently Turbo R vs the Lotus Elise. Both great in their own ways.
4. No real words of wisdom above anything else that has been said on this forum before. Just work hard, and don't go into the aviation adventure with your eyes closed. There are many people out there (training schools, some airlines etc) that will use your love of flying against you. Try not to ever pay up front for anything, and when (yes, WHEN ) you get employed, make it your goal to get the best T&C's you possibly can, and don't sell yourself short. Remember you've worked hard to get that licence, and airlines need you, not vica versa!
Above it all, enjoy yourself and stay as positive as possible. You've only got one life, so you may as well make the most of it
As far as good and bad points go, pretty much a majority of good points (great variety, great aircraft, great nightstops on longhaul, and most of all, great people to work with). A few negative points that have been much discussed on other threads, but I do try to remain positive I am on the move to another company this month, and I'm really looking forward to a new set of challenges!2. The line flying exceeds my expectations. Seeing the Alps lit up by a beautiful sunrise at 5am, and then flying the length of Africa the next week, followed by a quick hop to Washington the week after that really does blow your mind sometimes! Yes, there are the occasional hassles and the odd 'bad day', but there have been in every job I have done, so flying is no different. What is different is that the 'good days' are fantastic. Greasing the A330 in on a VMC summers day (not that I grease it in too often!) sure beats the good experiences in my previous jobs
3. Of the four types, the 330 is by far the nicest to fly. A very graceful bird, she makes the 320 series feel like small sports cars(esp the 319). A good analogy would be something like the Bently Turbo R vs the Lotus Elise. Both great in their own ways.
4. No real words of wisdom above anything else that has been said on this forum before. Just work hard, and don't go into the aviation adventure with your eyes closed. There are many people out there (training schools, some airlines etc) that will use your love of flying against you. Try not to ever pay up front for anything, and when (yes, WHEN
) you get employed, make it your goal to get the best T&C's you possibly can, and don't sell yourself short. Remember you've worked hard to get that licence, and airlines need you, not vica versa!Above it all, enjoy yourself and stay as positive as possible. You've only got one life, so you may as well make the most of it
Last edited by energiser; 6th Jul 2004 at 18:16.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Energiser,
Wow, you must have a great new gig if you are willing to leave the A330 at BMI...
I like your description of the route variety you have had - that is one of the things many of us look for - some good variety in destinations.
Any others out there? Anyone from Easy or Ryanair? The replies have been excellent and very inspirational. More replies welcome.
Wow, you must have a great new gig if you are willing to leave the A330 at BMI...
I like your description of the route variety you have had - that is one of the things many of us look for - some good variety in destinations.
Any others out there? Anyone from Easy or Ryanair? The replies have been excellent and very inspirational. More replies welcome.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Islas Columbretes
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boy, you guys make me jealous.
I fly for a mediterranean charter outfit in clapped out 737-300īs
thats definitely the worst job ive ever had. No crew rostering, late pay every month, crew morale on a all time low.
No programming, today I dont know when i fly again, but itīll be for sure 8 to 10 days in Athens or Tunisia............getting up at 0440 am everyday, no days off in between.
Course, you guys are new and have options.
Us older buggers lot of times sit back and think about all the decent companies we had and left during past better days, and realize our mistakes.
And doors close around us as we age.
I flew the 320 before...dont lose your butt over it...yes go out and spend for some touch and goes in a light plane.
Oh yes, I have applied to easy and ryanair...no word from them.
Good Luck to you all, it takes Hard Work so Work Hard !!
I fly for a mediterranean charter outfit in clapped out 737-300īs
thats definitely the worst job ive ever had. No crew rostering, late pay every month, crew morale on a all time low.
No programming, today I dont know when i fly again, but itīll be for sure 8 to 10 days in Athens or Tunisia............getting up at 0440 am everyday, no days off in between.
Course, you guys are new and have options.
Us older buggers lot of times sit back and think about all the decent companies we had and left during past better days, and realize our mistakes.
And doors close around us as we age.
I flew the 320 before...dont lose your butt over it...yes go out and spend for some touch and goes in a light plane.
Oh yes, I have applied to easy and ryanair...no word from them.
Good Luck to you all, it takes Hard Work so Work Hard !!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cool. I am a young enthusiast looking to join the airlines one day.... but would like to hear what it's like. Which would be better to start with. A charter/holiday airline, BA or BMI or my local reginal carrier, Air Wales?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DNMM/UK
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm interested in hearing the views of those who've joined Easy and Ryanair in the last year or two, especially with the current spats going on over T&Cs. There seems to be a view held by already established pilots in the LoCos that young FOs don't seem to care about T&Cs and are ruining the industry for those who came before them and coming behind them. What do you new(ish) easy/ryan driver think about this?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can understand why established pilots might feel like that. I think as a soon to be cadet f/o myself that I would feel rather ungrateful for complaining about money or any other Ts & Cs. Should we not be grateful just to get into the right hand seat?
I too would like to hear views on this topic.
I too would like to hear views on this topic.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in the hills
Age: 68
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fred4000
As a cadet pilot, you should be grateful of any job indeed. However, the continuing trend of wannabees who will be f?cked over by Ryanair and the likes and work for really bad ongoing terms and conditions does none of us any favours.
All I would ask is that any wannabees try and get to know 3 airline pilots and canvass their thoughts on such schemes before you begin paying. After all, the industry is picking up now. It would be a shame to be ripped off when other jobs are available!
Consider your options....
As a cadet pilot, you should be grateful of any job indeed. However, the continuing trend of wannabees who will be f?cked over by Ryanair and the likes and work for really bad ongoing terms and conditions does none of us any favours.
All I would ask is that any wannabees try and get to know 3 airline pilots and canvass their thoughts on such schemes before you begin paying. After all, the industry is picking up now. It would be a shame to be ripped off when other jobs are available!
Consider your options....
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got to agree with wheelbarrow on that one. Things indeed are improving and there are better carriers (in terms of being 'f?cked over') out there. It's just the bottom of the market at the moment and the upturn has started, but all the time there are significantly more qualified pilots of quality than positions then the current trend will continue. Quality is a key word here rather than just 'qualified'. That number is smaller than the overall number seeking employment and if the upturn continues it won't be too long before the bar has been lowered a little more to accommodate the ongoing expansion plans of the lo-co's. But, having said that, it only takes the demise of one big carrier and the whole process is set back a year or two again........
I can understand how with the huge training costs involved new pilots feel they must bend over backwards to get the first break and this is what has been jumped on by the industry, but with the training debts involved and living costs it doesn't take a newbie too long to realize that feeling grateful simply doesn't pay the bills..........
PP
I can understand how with the huge training costs involved new pilots feel they must bend over backwards to get the first break and this is what has been jumped on by the industry, but with the training debts involved and living costs it doesn't take a newbie too long to realize that feeling grateful simply doesn't pay the bills..........
PP