Is this discrimination?

[High Wing Drifter]

I think there is probably something to be said for the consistency in training. FWIW, I have heard that modular types should not scatter their training around various organisations. I have interpreted that to mean do your CPL, ME and IR with the same people. Not sure if anybody else can add a bit to this impression.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Pah! You are a student on a CPL course at a school. You fly a syllabus and after each flight your instructor writes a report in your training file. That happens whether you are Integrated or Modular. Same for the IR. Groundschool all that gets recorded are progress test scores and actual exam results.

There is no more or less continuous monitoring thoughout each route. There is no difference in the qualifications of the instructors nor anything other than a few mild tweaks to the syllabi. You are very much trained to pass the CPL Skilltest and the IRT. Thats all. In days gone by the British had the 509 course which went over and above this. It demanded better instructors, better facilities, a much better syllabus and all sorts of things. Thats been dead for years now.

Get over it.


Cheers

WWW

[StudentInDebt]

I have done each module of my frozen ATPL at different training providers and I haven't suffered in the slightest.

Nearly all the guys I worked with over 3 years instructing did the same thing which was really funny bearing in mind that we were working for one of the largest training organisations in Europe. They all have jobs.

Edited because I recognise that I am a bitter and twisted individual

[scroggs]

To me it makes sense that some airlines will want to make things easy for themselves, save money and minize risk in this way

Chocks you're right in that a few ill-informed and essentially lazy Chief pilots and Directors Flight Operations will take the integrated applicant route in the mistaken impression that they are minimizing the risk to their organisation - and, most definitely, to make things easy for themselves!

It is precisely because there is no difference between the modulated and integrated training schemes that schools like Oxford are desperately trying to introduce some differentiation through extra (yet unnecessary and bloody expensive) modules tacked on to their basic integrated courses. They hope that this will do two things: attract more well-funded students to their schools, and convince airline recruiters that their product is better than other schools' products.

The trouble is, the airlines won't pay for this stuff and you guys in general can't raise the money, so these integrated 'plus' courses are not yet that successful. One of the major factors in their failure to become more popular is the lack of any substantive evidence that their graduates are any more attractive to the industry than the vanilla integrated or modular chap. Oxford, in particular, seem particularly 'creative' in their claims for how many of their students they've found jobs for, and how they did it, so I'm loath to accept any claims for the validity of their APP course, for example.

A far better option for the airlines seems to be the CTC type setup where the financial risk is still essentially borne by the student, yet the airlines have considerable input on the qualification for, and the conduct and supervision of, the courses. These are called sponsorships, but they're basically enhanced integrated courses on HP! However, they're available only to the few, and the industry must continue to recruit on the open market - which is where you guys come in.

The bottom line is that there is no appreciable difference between an integrated and a modulated graduate. Most airlines appreciate this and are only interested in the fact that you have the licence, the medical, the requisite hours and are willing to earn a relative pittance while they try and turn you into a useful pilot.

Scroggs

[retro cowboy]

What have you done November Whiskey, it used to be such a peaceful website!

With regards to ChocksAwayUK and their comment about me being bonkers... well yes I am, and so will you be when you've finished your training and end up being discriminated against!

[Busbar]

Well my two penny's worth now:

I have just landed my first job with a very big airline on a jet. I am low hours (290 TT), self-sponsored modular route at a reasonably small school and my dad is not the chief pilot of this company! I applied like everybody else and happened to be one of the chosen few for interview.

On the day of the interview, there were 16 of us including me, the majority being from Oxford Integrated courses. However there was two other guys from my background and a PPL flying instructor with 1300 hours from the 'self-improver' route. Now apart from the fact that there were no ex-military guys, there were people from every background.

I was told personally by the guy that interviewed me that he did not really care where or how I got the licence, but I was employable as I had a current licence and that was all he was interested in! He asked me what I thought of my training school and did I think my training had been good? I gave an honest answer that I thought it had been excellent and nothing more was said on the matter.

So what does that tell you? I know it's different from Airline to Airline but this company was not bothered in the slightest. The problem with this industry is nothing is ever logical or follows a concise path, which leaves all those people applying in the dark. I applied to bmi regional months ago and I was told I had to have 1500hrs, 150 multi, or an EMB145 type rating! The next month I hear they take on several low hours guys????? Where is the logic there?

[High Wing Drifter]

The problem with this industry is nothing is ever logical or follows a concise path

You should do a spell in IT! Sometimes it feels like all bad bits in the Human Factors book all mixed together

[ChocksAwayUK]

With regards to ChocksAwayUK and their comment about me being bonkers... well yes I am, and so will you be when you've finished your training and end up being discriminated against!

Actually i reckon I'm halfway there already to be following this career
Best of luck in your job hunt.. at least the majority or airlines have a more open minded policy.