Britannia Airways - Sponsorship Scheme 2004
Tiram,
In most cases sponsored pilots will get less than non-sponsored for X amount of years but you have to remember that the sponsored guys will not have a circa 50K loan hanging over their heads when they start the job with the bank biting at their heels for repayment.
Have you tried the CTC scheme? (see the other thread) You don't have to pay anything upfront although a loan is taken out in your name which is then repayed by the company you (hopefully) get allocated to.
In most cases sponsored pilots will get less than non-sponsored for X amount of years but you have to remember that the sponsored guys will not have a circa 50K loan hanging over their heads when they start the job with the bank biting at their heels for repayment.
Have you tried the CTC scheme? (see the other thread) You don't have to pay anything upfront although a loan is taken out in your name which is then repayed by the company you (hopefully) get allocated to.
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Hi,
I haven't tried ctc as i have heard bad things about them from people. I understand what is being said about the money, in the long term sponsered pilots have it financially better, not only that, they have as close to a guaranteed job as you are going to get in this industry. I now have everything in place to carry on with my training, the self funded way,which was always the most likely.
I haven't tried ctc as i have heard bad things about them from people. I understand what is being said about the money, in the long term sponsered pilots have it financially better, not only that, they have as close to a guaranteed job as you are going to get in this industry. I now have everything in place to carry on with my training, the self funded way,which was always the most likely.
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The HR lady told us the next stage consisted of two group exercises followed by a personality questionaire. Stage 3 is when you get interviewed apparently.
I thought the tests weren't too bad but were exhausting! I think the physics paper at the end may let me down but I've still got my fingers crossed......
I completed probably about 50% on average. Managed to complete the verbal reasoning exercise but did find it pretty akward so probably got at least 80% wrong anyhow.
Best of luck to you all that attended and to those that didn't get invited keep plugging away and don't lose hope.
I thought the tests weren't too bad but were exhausting! I think the physics paper at the end may let me down but I've still got my fingers crossed......
I completed probably about 50% on average. Managed to complete the verbal reasoning exercise but did find it pretty akward so probably got at least 80% wrong anyhow.
Best of luck to you all that attended and to those that didn't get invited keep plugging away and don't lose hope.
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The tests certainly were intense, down to the short time limits mostly! But then I would assume that they are intended to measure not only mental capacity but also ability to work at speed and under pressure.
The thing that I can't make mind up about is whether applicants will now be considered based on their test score alongside their application, or simply on the test scores alone. Any thoughts?
As a newcomer to the sponsorship hunt I suspect that I'll find myself chalking this one up to experience. My fingers are tightly crossed none the less!
And hey, good luck to all who attended!
The thing that I can't make mind up about is whether applicants will now be considered based on their test score alongside their application, or simply on the test scores alone. Any thoughts?
As a newcomer to the sponsorship hunt I suspect that I'll find myself chalking this one up to experience. My fingers are tightly crossed none the less!
And hey, good luck to all who attended!
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I also think the final test may have done for me (which way does that lever go when you pull the handle eh?).
Would be interested to know if the application form is considered further at this stage.
Anyway just going to twiddle my thumbs until I find out one way or another.
Good luck to all who went along this week, friendly bunch of guys (and 1 gal) who went along this morning.
Andrew
Would be interested to know if the application form is considered further at this stage.
Anyway just going to twiddle my thumbs until I find out one way or another.
Good luck to all who went along this week, friendly bunch of guys (and 1 gal) who went along this morning.
Andrew
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Well, as my Username suggests, I "Nearly" got there again….received a letter today from AA to say that I didn't meet the requirement laid down by Britannia. Not to worry, I'd only been promised a telephone call Friday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to confirm whether or not I had got through - even Tuesday, (apparently) AA were still calling people for today's' assessment but each time I spoke to the nice lady who answered the phone, I would get the same response "…you will definitely get a call tomorrow to confirm the situation…". I guess in the end I was a little too optimistic - until I had received some sort of rejection there was still a chance of that call up, wasn't there??? Although, I was a little surprised that considering there was a strict "no hard copy" approach to the whole application phase they decided to write to me to advise me of my rejection??? I guess I expected there to be some continuity from AA i.e. an e-mail, but considering the amount of queries about the application form in the beginning, I know that I shouldn't be that surprised….
Well, I have read with great interest the many different opinions on this thread. I, like many others, have gone to the trouble of getting my PPL with IMC rating and currently have over 80 hours. In particular I would like to understand the reasoning behind my rejection but seeing as AA are probably still going to "call me tomorrow" I figure I won't find out too soon. I have read peoples comments about number of hours but still have no "official" confirmation that this was the reason in my case - I might not have the right qualities to be an airline pilot but I just don’t know. Although I know that there will have been a lot of people receiving the same news as me today, AA are the company taking that pressure from Britannia and, in my opinion, should provide some feedback (positive or otherwise). It would just be nice to get some opinion to put my mind at ease and know whether or not I'm wasting my time in applying. I would have thought though, that in Britannia's Basic entry requirements or the 'Trainee of Choice' sections of the initial application, they should have included some detail about hours (if that is why I have been rejected)??? I know that even if I had seen that there was a maximum of say 50 hours for the application, knowing that I could still satisfy the other criteria, I would still have applied but I would have done it in the knowledge that there would be a likely refusal at the end instead of being upbeat, meeting all of their advertised requirements and then feeling that maybe I shouldn't have begun to spend so much time completing the application form in the first place. I didn't get the opportunity to show them what I am capable of and maybe that will be to their detriment and someone else's fortune.
I do understand why airlines don't like people with hours under their belts but I have to say that I don't see anything less than 200 hours being "excessive" to warrant a refusal for this or any other application. I understand that they want us Wannabee's to not have any "bad habits" but as far as I can see, I got a glowing report after successfully completing the CAA skills tests (the bench mark for all UK pilots) and certainly from where I come from, flying is a constant learning curve - I don't relax knowing I've got the piece of paper to prove I can fly - I see that as the beginning of (hopefully) a long and exciting flying career. There aren't many times that I go to the flying school and don't come away without having learnt something new through my own experiences or by talking to those around me. Also, I have to be assessed every 2 years to extend the Certificate of Experience expiry date so surely the "bad habits" would show and I would be advised of additional training to get back to making the grade and getting my CofE extended.
I have also been led to believe that the Psychometric and Aptitude testing would always be "smart" enough to provide the assessors with the ability to see beyond the tests i.e. they could tell if I was the kind of pilot who flies around the country without a care in the world, the window open with the radio blaring out!!! As far as I know, they can see from these tests whether or not I would be trainable so allowing them to realise that I am committed, enthusiastic, able and willing to put my whole life in their hands for the rest of my career???
Well, to those that have attended the assessments over the last few days, I genuinely wish you all good luck. Seeing as there will only be 25% of you going through to the next phase and eventually only 5 people being chosen, I know that there will be a lot of people like me who will be disappointed. My advice if any, would be to keep your heads up and keep applying, never losing sight of where you want to get to. I too must get back to the drawing board to figure out my next move but will do so in the knowledge that I am committed to this career path and will get their in the end - its just been delayed for the time being!!! As for getting ahead of the game and getting some flying experience - before this application I would have advised anyone to do it but now I'm not so sure. I continue to thoroughly enjoy my private flying (when weather and money permits!!!) and wouldn't normally not encourage anyone to get involved. If it is true that airlines prefer none or low hours applicants then keep your thirst for flying under strict control cause you could end up just like me - an OAP (Old Aged Pilot) at 24 years old (in sponsored piloting terms anyway) and past it!!!
Well, I have read with great interest the many different opinions on this thread. I, like many others, have gone to the trouble of getting my PPL with IMC rating and currently have over 80 hours. In particular I would like to understand the reasoning behind my rejection but seeing as AA are probably still going to "call me tomorrow" I figure I won't find out too soon. I have read peoples comments about number of hours but still have no "official" confirmation that this was the reason in my case - I might not have the right qualities to be an airline pilot but I just don’t know. Although I know that there will have been a lot of people receiving the same news as me today, AA are the company taking that pressure from Britannia and, in my opinion, should provide some feedback (positive or otherwise). It would just be nice to get some opinion to put my mind at ease and know whether or not I'm wasting my time in applying. I would have thought though, that in Britannia's Basic entry requirements or the 'Trainee of Choice' sections of the initial application, they should have included some detail about hours (if that is why I have been rejected)??? I know that even if I had seen that there was a maximum of say 50 hours for the application, knowing that I could still satisfy the other criteria, I would still have applied but I would have done it in the knowledge that there would be a likely refusal at the end instead of being upbeat, meeting all of their advertised requirements and then feeling that maybe I shouldn't have begun to spend so much time completing the application form in the first place. I didn't get the opportunity to show them what I am capable of and maybe that will be to their detriment and someone else's fortune.
I do understand why airlines don't like people with hours under their belts but I have to say that I don't see anything less than 200 hours being "excessive" to warrant a refusal for this or any other application. I understand that they want us Wannabee's to not have any "bad habits" but as far as I can see, I got a glowing report after successfully completing the CAA skills tests (the bench mark for all UK pilots) and certainly from where I come from, flying is a constant learning curve - I don't relax knowing I've got the piece of paper to prove I can fly - I see that as the beginning of (hopefully) a long and exciting flying career. There aren't many times that I go to the flying school and don't come away without having learnt something new through my own experiences or by talking to those around me. Also, I have to be assessed every 2 years to extend the Certificate of Experience expiry date so surely the "bad habits" would show and I would be advised of additional training to get back to making the grade and getting my CofE extended.
I have also been led to believe that the Psychometric and Aptitude testing would always be "smart" enough to provide the assessors with the ability to see beyond the tests i.e. they could tell if I was the kind of pilot who flies around the country without a care in the world, the window open with the radio blaring out!!! As far as I know, they can see from these tests whether or not I would be trainable so allowing them to realise that I am committed, enthusiastic, able and willing to put my whole life in their hands for the rest of my career???
Well, to those that have attended the assessments over the last few days, I genuinely wish you all good luck. Seeing as there will only be 25% of you going through to the next phase and eventually only 5 people being chosen, I know that there will be a lot of people like me who will be disappointed. My advice if any, would be to keep your heads up and keep applying, never losing sight of where you want to get to. I too must get back to the drawing board to figure out my next move but will do so in the knowledge that I am committed to this career path and will get their in the end - its just been delayed for the time being!!! As for getting ahead of the game and getting some flying experience - before this application I would have advised anyone to do it but now I'm not so sure. I continue to thoroughly enjoy my private flying (when weather and money permits!!!) and wouldn't normally not encourage anyone to get involved. If it is true that airlines prefer none or low hours applicants then keep your thirst for flying under strict control cause you could end up just like me - an OAP (Old Aged Pilot) at 24 years old (in sponsored piloting terms anyway) and past it!!!
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Stage 2
Hi All,
I was very glad to get today over with. I think it was more mentally draining than challenging, biggest problem was the race against the time! As Parc are looking after the testing, the papers will be sent to their HQ in Dublin for processing. Then the magic computer will print out the TOP 50 and the initial application form will no longer matter.
Seems a bit ruthless, but hey, aviation is anything but fair. Just think it would be the biggest kick in the B@{{s to be number 51.
Also noticed that it’s the EXACT same test given to Aer Lingus applicants in 1999 and 2000.
Well, BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!
John.
I was very glad to get today over with. I think it was more mentally draining than challenging, biggest problem was the race against the time! As Parc are looking after the testing, the papers will be sent to their HQ in Dublin for processing. Then the magic computer will print out the TOP 50 and the initial application form will no longer matter.
Seems a bit ruthless, but hey, aviation is anything but fair. Just think it would be the biggest kick in the B@{{s to be number 51.
Also noticed that it’s the EXACT same test given to Aer Lingus applicants in 1999 and 2000.
Well, BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!
John.
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If I had to desribe who all got through, the people were almost all graduates, with engineering degrees in the majority. Males 22-25 (only one girl).
In response to the post by Nearly, all I can say is that from my syndicate, of the 25 people attending and the few I spoke to the amount of hours flown ranged from none, to a couple with 2-3 hours, a 10, a 18, and a couple of 30's.
It's my opinion that Britannia didn't openly announce its lack of enthusiasim for PPL's for a few reasons listed below:
a) They recruit a fair number of pilots every year that have went via the self funded option, to advertise that 'people with PPL's need not apply' for their sponsorship scheme would probably send out the wrong message to the industry and these pilots.
b) If they don't want people with PPL's and advertise it accordingly, what happens applicants may choose to omit this information from their application form, as the potential reward is substanital. £15k for the works and a fair to middling chance of a job in a years time with low hours is (for a lot of people) too good an opportunity to miss.
c) Consequently if people lie about flying experience it doesn't allow them to grade their perfomance on the simulator effectively and evenly against the others. Additionally monitoring their initial progress to see how quickly or natural they are at flying when training starts in Jerez would be hampered.
d) There must be a reason for it or they wouldn't have done it, simple as that. I mimagine something has happened adversely i the past for them to do this. Method in their madness I suppose.
In response to the post by Nearly, all I can say is that from my syndicate, of the 25 people attending and the few I spoke to the amount of hours flown ranged from none, to a couple with 2-3 hours, a 10, a 18, and a couple of 30's.
It's my opinion that Britannia didn't openly announce its lack of enthusiasim for PPL's for a few reasons listed below:
a) They recruit a fair number of pilots every year that have went via the self funded option, to advertise that 'people with PPL's need not apply' for their sponsorship scheme would probably send out the wrong message to the industry and these pilots.
b) If they don't want people with PPL's and advertise it accordingly, what happens applicants may choose to omit this information from their application form, as the potential reward is substanital. £15k for the works and a fair to middling chance of a job in a years time with low hours is (for a lot of people) too good an opportunity to miss.
c) Consequently if people lie about flying experience it doesn't allow them to grade their perfomance on the simulator effectively and evenly against the others. Additionally monitoring their initial progress to see how quickly or natural they are at flying when training starts in Jerez would be hampered.
d) There must be a reason for it or they wouldn't have done it, simple as that. I mimagine something has happened adversely i the past for them to do this. Method in their madness I suppose.
If the tests are as squak2002 describes then the following may be of interest to those still to attend, if it bears no resemblence then feel free to correct.
link to some info on PARC/Aer Lingus selectionl
link to some info on PARC/Aer Lingus selectionl
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Assault And (aptitude test) Battery
I was in Luton this morning for the aptitude testing at "stage 1", although really the application forms were stage 1 of the weeding-out process. Dunno what all that business was about completing the form in ink then scanning and e-mailing it was... it worked though.
The tests were more intense than difficult - it's not "can you do this?", it's "how fast can you do this?". We had maths (abstract), word association (spotting same/opposite word pairs), shape matching from large grids of various shapes (some very similar!), more maths (practical-type questions), possibly another test that my brain has blanked from my memory! For each of these tests we had between 5 and 7 minutes to complete as much as possible. 5-7 minutes really isn't very long when there are 50 questions staring at you... o_O
After a short break, we had a 40-minute Critical Thinking test - we had to read statements and say whether inferences or assumptions about them were true, and so on. It would take a while to explain but it (mostly) made sense - it was just a case of thinking logically about each statement as given.
The last test was mechanical perception (or something like that) - each question consists of a diagram, occasionally with other people's scribblings on, and a question such as "if cog A rotates as shown, in which direction will block D move?" and so on. We had 25 minutes for this one.
My brain was certainly a bit fried after all that! But I'd expected the assessment to last all day, since Britannia/Thomson/whoever they are had been very tight-lipped about what would actually happen on the day. I was quite happy to be back home (in Bristol) in time for dinner!
Good luck to everyone who was there - well, 49 of you anyway
The tests were more intense than difficult - it's not "can you do this?", it's "how fast can you do this?". We had maths (abstract), word association (spotting same/opposite word pairs), shape matching from large grids of various shapes (some very similar!), more maths (practical-type questions), possibly another test that my brain has blanked from my memory! For each of these tests we had between 5 and 7 minutes to complete as much as possible. 5-7 minutes really isn't very long when there are 50 questions staring at you... o_O
After a short break, we had a 40-minute Critical Thinking test - we had to read statements and say whether inferences or assumptions about them were true, and so on. It would take a while to explain but it (mostly) made sense - it was just a case of thinking logically about each statement as given.
The last test was mechanical perception (or something like that) - each question consists of a diagram, occasionally with other people's scribblings on, and a question such as "if cog A rotates as shown, in which direction will block D move?" and so on. We had 25 minutes for this one.
My brain was certainly a bit fried after all that! But I'd expected the assessment to last all day, since Britannia/Thomson/whoever they are had been very tight-lipped about what would actually happen on the day. I was quite happy to be back home (in Bristol) in time for dinner!
Good luck to everyone who was there - well, 49 of you anyway
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Hey!
Just wanna say hi to all those that attended testing yesterday morning. As many people have said before the tests weren't hard it was just a case are you quick enough! In saying that however, for me, i think all radicals are patriotic citizens if you know what i mean!!! Hated that test!
Anyhow, good luck to all 200, keeping my fingers crossed for a good argument at the group discussion stage!
Let me know how you all get on!
Kempus
Just wanna say hi to all those that attended testing yesterday morning. As many people have said before the tests weren't hard it was just a case are you quick enough! In saying that however, for me, i think all radicals are patriotic citizens if you know what i mean!!! Hated that test!
Anyhow, good luck to all 200, keeping my fingers crossed for a good argument at the group discussion stage!
Let me know how you all get on!
Kempus
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PPL does not exclude
In reply to NEARLY's comments, one of of the guys I did the Aptitude exams with had just come back from Florida with his PPL. Britannia are probably looking for people with a serious interest, and see someone with a PPL and the 45 hours as 'fitting the bill', but someone with 80 hours as keen, but they may wonder why u have 80 hours under your belt.
Did it take you a few extra hours to pass your PPL etc...
Also comments from a friend of mine who is the Cheif Pilot or something at AerLingus, he said that they always looked for pilots with zero or almost zero hours as they are the easiest to train the company way. And obviously havent picked up the 'bad habbits' along the way.
You also have to remember that this was a sponsored scheme for pilots, and although it did ask for hours etc on the form these type of scheme are predominantly aimed at the zero hour joe soap.
Good luck in the future though, there are a few airlines recruiting pilots with hours and licences and a few want to only do the type rating. Check out EasyJet who are gagging to get their hands on as many of us as possible. They might roll on something to suit you or anybody else with a PPL etc for that matter.
-Robbie
Did it take you a few extra hours to pass your PPL etc...
Also comments from a friend of mine who is the Cheif Pilot or something at AerLingus, he said that they always looked for pilots with zero or almost zero hours as they are the easiest to train the company way. And obviously havent picked up the 'bad habbits' along the way.
You also have to remember that this was a sponsored scheme for pilots, and although it did ask for hours etc on the form these type of scheme are predominantly aimed at the zero hour joe soap.
Good luck in the future though, there are a few airlines recruiting pilots with hours and licences and a few want to only do the type rating. Check out EasyJet who are gagging to get their hands on as many of us as possible. They might roll on something to suit you or anybody else with a PPL etc for that matter.
-Robbie
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So the question is whats the limit? I wonder what the maximum hrs was at stage 1. With 45hrs i would probably be high up there considering they wanted people with about 30hrs or less. Having said that my hrs are all UAS hrs. Anyone on stage 1 with more? I ask because i was going to do a PPL this summer and now i'm having second thoughts.
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Max hours
From what I can make out, the PPL minimum appears to be max. So thats 40-45 hours or thereabouts. Most people above that are having a moan for not being selected.
Is anyone else finding it tough to wait till friday to find out if were through or not? This is torture.
Have a look at http://www.ppjn.com/jbritannia.html, it makes for very interesting reading, especially the bit about 42 weeks holiday! I'm guessing its 42 days.
Fingers crossed for friday!
Is anyone else finding it tough to wait till friday to find out if were through or not? This is torture.
Have a look at http://www.ppjn.com/jbritannia.html, it makes for very interesting reading, especially the bit about 42 weeks holiday! I'm guessing its 42 days.
Fingers crossed for friday!
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At the session that I attended the 1st of May was being mentioned as the date that they would "try to let us know by"
As to whether their uncertainty was down to Britannia being concerned that it may take a little longer, or simply that the rejection letters might be held up in the post until monday, I wouldn't like to speculate!
I'm assuming that the lucky ones will be posting on here to celebrate anyway, so I will be using that to gauge when I should start to suspect I'm not going through...
As to whether their uncertainty was down to Britannia being concerned that it may take a little longer, or simply that the rejection letters might be held up in the post until monday, I wouldn't like to speculate!
I'm assuming that the lucky ones will be posting on here to celebrate anyway, so I will be using that to gauge when I should start to suspect I'm not going through...
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RE: ashleyeagles
The lady who did my groups aptitude tests said; there was in the region of 1000-2000 applicants.
200 were brought for stage one testing.
50 will go through to round 2,
10 to round 3, and from that they choose the lucky 5.
Not all that bad odds really, all things considered. Those of who got to the 1st round were lucky enough just to get that far! But like most, I'll prob be chalking this up to experience, but then again, I'm not out yet!
The lady who did my groups aptitude tests said; there was in the region of 1000-2000 applicants.
200 were brought for stage one testing.
50 will go through to round 2,
10 to round 3, and from that they choose the lucky 5.
Not all that bad odds really, all things considered. Those of who got to the 1st round were lucky enough just to get that far! But like most, I'll prob be chalking this up to experience, but then again, I'm not out yet!
Last edited by rmcfarlane; 27th Apr 2004 at 15:21.
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Ladies and Gents,
Just a couple of comments really from a personal perspective having read the above posts on the last few pages.
The frustrations fo those of you with PPL/IMC hours etc is very understandable but unfortunately this is the way of the industry and we do turn down very capable pilots from the sponsorship level up to training captains the key being really as to wether one will fit into the company. The ability to fly is not being questioned, wether both sides will be happy working with each other in the long term is often the decider.
The numbers spoken above are correct 2000 applicants down to 5 slots, we have to make a cut somewhere and most of the tests are designed as gate exercises to bring numbers down to managable levels. They aren't perfect no selection process is. I failed first stage selection the first year I applied but succeded the following year.
Part of the problem we face is how much it costs to select the candidate, this is on top of any further training costs. Obviously the further down the process you get the more is involved, plus we also have line pilots involved, so we are off line and not available to fly. In a nut shell this is NOT personal and for those who have got the dear John letter,( my file is also thick), please try to be a bit more philosphical about it, yes you missed out this time but the next oppurtunity could well be the break. If you have a licence then yes you can fly but it may be that you are more suited to BA than BAL. The main thing though is to keep going, it is frustrating and often the hardest thing in the career is to get the first job. I had 2 years banging on doors after a full ab inito course( and overdraught) but in the end it worked I got one interview right ( out of 6) and haven't looked back.
From a recruiters perspective we try to find the best in everyone we see and are not looking to catch anyone out. For those in the running still best of luck relax and do your best. there is no hidden agenda, set numbers of male/female candidates etc. Clear all the hurdles and be yourself that is what we want to see.
Kind regards
Chin
Just a couple of comments really from a personal perspective having read the above posts on the last few pages.
The frustrations fo those of you with PPL/IMC hours etc is very understandable but unfortunately this is the way of the industry and we do turn down very capable pilots from the sponsorship level up to training captains the key being really as to wether one will fit into the company. The ability to fly is not being questioned, wether both sides will be happy working with each other in the long term is often the decider.
The numbers spoken above are correct 2000 applicants down to 5 slots, we have to make a cut somewhere and most of the tests are designed as gate exercises to bring numbers down to managable levels. They aren't perfect no selection process is. I failed first stage selection the first year I applied but succeded the following year.
Part of the problem we face is how much it costs to select the candidate, this is on top of any further training costs. Obviously the further down the process you get the more is involved, plus we also have line pilots involved, so we are off line and not available to fly. In a nut shell this is NOT personal and for those who have got the dear John letter,( my file is also thick), please try to be a bit more philosphical about it, yes you missed out this time but the next oppurtunity could well be the break. If you have a licence then yes you can fly but it may be that you are more suited to BA than BAL. The main thing though is to keep going, it is frustrating and often the hardest thing in the career is to get the first job. I had 2 years banging on doors after a full ab inito course( and overdraught) but in the end it worked I got one interview right ( out of 6) and haven't looked back.
From a recruiters perspective we try to find the best in everyone we see and are not looking to catch anyone out. For those in the running still best of luck relax and do your best. there is no hidden agenda, set numbers of male/female candidates etc. Clear all the hurdles and be yourself that is what we want to see.
Kind regards
Chin
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Suitability
Hi Chin
Thanks for the interest in this thread and your attempt at trying to put a few minds at rest (including mine!).
I too was unsuccesful with this scheme, so unsuccesful infact that I didn't receive a "Dear John..." letter or a email or phone call etc. My results became apparent from the replies on here. Reading the posts of those succesful who qualified to stage 1 was the indicator that the NO news was in fact bad news as I'd expected.
Still im sure the relative HR dept's had their hands full notifying the succesful candidates.
However, im still a tad concerned to the deciding factors involved in the Go/No Go on the paper stage. If I read your post correct, then doesnt ones suitability fall to how succesful they were with connecting to the people vetting the applications. I fail to see where the current app form gave opportunity to allow candidates enough scope to show wether they would work well with current BAL team or not. How possibly does one judge wether they are more suited to BA than BAL? Surely these sort of politcs can only make a wannabes life harder. Not only do you have to have the right educational background, flying experiance and proven managerial results but you've also gotta show yourself to be a specific company man through liked buzz words and wether the preferred sport you played at school was rugby not football.
I rather feel it harsh to allow at the initial stage room for this sort of discrimination. Surely people should be vetted by format set in the minimum application requirements, tested, if succesful (being honest it is at this stage most people fall down) then interviewed for suitability giving a candidate chance to impress upon the company.
I fully realise the recession the aviation industry is still in, the fact that sponsorships (apart from this one) are fairly non existant and that selection will be brutal and painful for the unlucky majority. I doubt anyone applied for this scheme with the confidence that they had just found there next job! But if that is your screening process then Im sure you will have missed some very good people, maybe better people than the clones you actually end up with. Im sure they will thankyou when they are at BA
Excuse the non intentional gripe but this is where I feel these sponsorship schemes fall down. What hope do we have for the future aviation industry and its demand, where will the future pilots come from? Or will the selection system fall to a sensible level where recognition of drive and determination rewards merit and opportunity for people to succeed and grow.
I wish those succesful so far continued success. And those 1995 unsuccesful to keep going and growing, because one day they will be forced to take us on.
All the best
RB
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Right.
RB, a heart felt response and understandable, but lets look at a few points here.
The application form. This is set out to see if you are actually interested in the company. The bulk of us on the line are not cloned nor do we spout the latest company line, buzz words or 'synergys' that management love to speak off. But for your good selves we are looking to invest a sizeable sum and near enough give you the job at the end of a year in the sun( not that you would see a lot of it as you would be studying!!) So I throw this one back to you, you have 2000 applicants how would you cut them down to a more manageable number?
We use an outside agency for a reason, simply they can process the numbers in a workable time frame that we don't have the resources to do.
"it only makes a wannebe's life harder"
Please don't belly ache. The industry does not owe you a living. The reason most pilots will help and invariably be sympathetic is because this isn't easy, its more of a vocation that a career choice. Like any investement it takes hard graft to get there and a reasonbale amount of luck. If you don't like it then are you looking for the wrong job.
The right educational background and wether you played Rugby or Football
Taken as an analogee surely that is the point of selection.
Missed some very good people
I refer you to my last post, no selection process is perfect, ours isn't and we are constantly trying to improve it so we can identify those we want as early as possible. We cannot interview everyone, at the end of the day we are a business and the average pilot costs around £2000 to recruit, that does not include those who fall at the other stages. Pilots are not cheap.
This is a problem across the industry but as you quite rightly said at the moment we are one of the very few offering the chance of sponsorship and only a few will be very lucky. You have my sympathy for being unlucky this time but if you wish to have a bitch please have a look at what you are to post and sit on the other side of the desk for a moment before you hit send.
There are pilots involved in recruitment for a reason, we understand as we still have the scars to prove it.
Best of luck and keep going
Regards
Chin.
RB, a heart felt response and understandable, but lets look at a few points here.
The application form. This is set out to see if you are actually interested in the company. The bulk of us on the line are not cloned nor do we spout the latest company line, buzz words or 'synergys' that management love to speak off. But for your good selves we are looking to invest a sizeable sum and near enough give you the job at the end of a year in the sun( not that you would see a lot of it as you would be studying!!) So I throw this one back to you, you have 2000 applicants how would you cut them down to a more manageable number?
We use an outside agency for a reason, simply they can process the numbers in a workable time frame that we don't have the resources to do.
"it only makes a wannebe's life harder"
Please don't belly ache. The industry does not owe you a living. The reason most pilots will help and invariably be sympathetic is because this isn't easy, its more of a vocation that a career choice. Like any investement it takes hard graft to get there and a reasonbale amount of luck. If you don't like it then are you looking for the wrong job.
The right educational background and wether you played Rugby or Football
Taken as an analogee surely that is the point of selection.
Missed some very good people
I refer you to my last post, no selection process is perfect, ours isn't and we are constantly trying to improve it so we can identify those we want as early as possible. We cannot interview everyone, at the end of the day we are a business and the average pilot costs around £2000 to recruit, that does not include those who fall at the other stages. Pilots are not cheap.
This is a problem across the industry but as you quite rightly said at the moment we are one of the very few offering the chance of sponsorship and only a few will be very lucky. You have my sympathy for being unlucky this time but if you wish to have a bitch please have a look at what you are to post and sit on the other side of the desk for a moment before you hit send.
There are pilots involved in recruitment for a reason, we understand as we still have the scars to prove it.
Best of luck and keep going
Regards
Chin.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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ruthless
I can fully understand where chinchaser is coming from, (i'm guessing that you must be involved in the current recruitment drive?).
The number of applicants that airlines recieve for a 'job' that almost compares to winning the lottery must be staggering, the number of 2000 has already been mentioned. It has to be expected that you are going be ruthless with applicants just to get the numbers to a managable level.
Negative comments from others who have been burned at an early stage only serve to cheapen the process. We have to remember that the chances of getting through from application are 0.25%! Competition is high, and we can fall out for the smallest of reasons.
The airlines can afford to be picky, and i would be too with the cost involved. So to those who havent made it, keep trying! If its meant to be, it will eventually work out.
The number of applicants that airlines recieve for a 'job' that almost compares to winning the lottery must be staggering, the number of 2000 has already been mentioned. It has to be expected that you are going be ruthless with applicants just to get the numbers to a managable level.
Negative comments from others who have been burned at an early stage only serve to cheapen the process. We have to remember that the chances of getting through from application are 0.25%! Competition is high, and we can fall out for the smallest of reasons.
The airlines can afford to be picky, and i would be too with the cost involved. So to those who havent made it, keep trying! If its meant to be, it will eventually work out.