validation du JAR/FCL Spain to JAR france

[transilvana]

Does any one knows what steps to follow to validate our FAR licence in France. I just received a letter form one of their companies telling me that with my JAR license I can not fly Foxtrot registration Aircrafts and that i have to contact the DGAc in France

Thanks a lot

[osito]

I got the same answer than you last week. I´m still trrying to find out how it works the convertion. I would deeply appreciate somo info about. Thanks to all!

[transilvana]

I will tell you as soon as I get the answer. I sent an email to DGAC france and to the JAA authorities to check it out.

[winch launch]

I am french

As I was planning to do my training in england, a friend of mine told me that I wouldn t be able to work in france after. I could hardly believe it as I thought that as soon as you have a JAR license, you can work for any JAR airlines! So I phoned the DGAC, and they told me that French compagnies don t really recognise JAR licenses from other countries than France (and some exeptions are made to belgium). Would that mean that they would refuse a guy with some line experience just because 10 years ago he did his training outside france....That would be seriously stupid. So once again we can see that France call themselves JAR.....but I think they shouldn t.
I think you should call the DGAC and ask them. I would love to know what they can say about all this.

Best of luck, Winch

just an other quick question, which airlines did you apply for in france?

Winch

Just a question, which airlines did you applyu for in France?

Winch

[EuroSkat]

To all: Good question, and one that has been the most serious of issues surrounding JAR-FCL implementation in the JAA States. All States commit themselves to a mutual recognition clause (basically means we will accept a JAR licence issued by another State that has fully implemented JAR-FCL and has passed its JAA inspection visit). Unfortunately we all know that DGAC France don't play ball. In fact they blame it on an old French rule, which in the French legal system is considered higher in status than JAR-FCL rules. They say that they are required to 'validate' all foreign licences (including JAR ones) under EC Directive 91/670/EEC but that is rubbish because what they are really saying is stay away because we are protectionist!

You will most definitely find it almost impossible to get a UK JAR-FCL licence 'recognised' because (a) they don't trust the British, and (b) they are very suspect of any training that might have been performed outside the JAA community, i.e. US. What they don't tell you is that Air France trained its cadets for a long time at Delta in the 90s and under the old French system!!

Most of the countries use the JAR mutual recognition clause in the spirit that it is intended, that is no validation necessary in the interests of minimum regulatory burden. What is the point of JOINT regulations otherwise?

I wish you succes.

To winch launch - it's not a question of French companies recognising JAR licences - that has nothing to do with them. That job lies with DGAC - they are just telling you that to get rid of you quickly!

[transilvana]

I have tried to contact JAA and DGAc and none of them have answer me.

Do you know what steps to follow in order to "validate" the license. Mine is Spanish and I got it under JAR rules.

thanks

[concordino]

I mean not to sound discouraging but the DGAC will look for the slightest and minor thing to deny you such a request.

back in 2001 a french mate of mine who trained with me and obtained a UK issue JAR license, was denied a request for validation and the DGAC claimed that part of his training which was done in Australia wasn't in accordance with the JAR requirements.

he had a good opportunity with a Charter outfit in France as he had some good connections.

At the end i think the French are digging their own grave, The UK and other JAA companies won't consider French Issue JAR license holders although not in an explicit manner

It is sad to see French air carriers failing, so where to for their Pilot ?

Most are too arrogant to look for jobs in other EU states, they rather earn unemployment and wait in France

This same guy is now working in Spain and two others with UK licenses working in UK and Finland.

C

[winch launch]

At the end i think the French are digging their own grave, The UK and other JAA companies won't consider French Issue JAR license holders although not in an explicit manner

It is sad to see French air carriers failing, so where to for their Pilot ?

Most are too arrogant to look for jobs in other EU states, they rather earn unemployment and wait in France

I agree with you that what the DGAC is doing is totally unaxeptable. I am french and I say it myself...Yes they are arrogant. French people think that there training is much more advanced than the english one for exemple, which is totally stupid as I don t see in what a french pilot is better to a british one. The other problem is that the DGAC (as well as french airlines) try to avoid getting people from abroad. As an exemple, to apply for air france cadet, you need the french baccalaureat (equivalent of A-levels) but equivalent diploma don t work. By that, they make sure that you are french basically. On one hand we have english airlines having to accept pilots from all the JAR countries, as pilots all speak english, and on the other hand, in france, they make sure that even people who can speak french but from other nationalities don t get in. I agree with you guys, it is unfair. But I hope that what you are saying about UK airlines not accepting french licenses isn t true. I am training (Distance learning ATPL theory for the moment)in a french FTO right now (because it s cheaper to england), and there are simply no career prospects in france exept at air france(3 years to get an interview), Brit air (doing bad), regional and other small employers(every body who can t get in brit air or air france cue for that). In my case, i have always aimed for a career in england or belgium (as I don t want to end up like many French JAR ATPL holders, only looking for positions in france, and doing nothing but watching an other french airline going bankrupt every week). So if what u say about non french airlines refusing french JAR licenses, then PM me please. I am pretty concerned about what you are saying.

Winch..Let s hope for a real european JAA

[pipex]

With Allies like France who need enemies?

[concordino]

winch launch,

I am sorry my post triggered worries/concerns from you.

I am not qualified to expand on my statement, but i can tell you from my experience that lots of the prejudice in the aviation community goes by unoticed or not felt.

It would be well worth posting a new topic altogether asking if there are pilot with French JAR-FCL licenses working in UK for example.

Mind you that about 2 weeks ago, i heard an English Pilot doing RT for (Air Mediteranee) from Bamako to Paris. It was in a francophone FIR, the guy couldn't speak French.

So maybe the beginning of things getting sorted out ?

maybe

C

[EuroSkat]

The more lobbying people do with DGAC France the better. In fact small pressure groups might have more persuasive 'clout' than the politics. Rest assured this problem will go away when EASA takes over responsibility for Flight Crew Licensing in the EU States, but that is still probably about 2 years away, and the French will want to influence what is made law!

Try going in at the highest level of DGAC and write to Maxime Coffin....actually, the more the better....

[transilvana]

Does anybdoy have the same problem as me? we could make pressure trough the JAA.

Thanks a lot