Ryanair

[flat-tire]

Does anyone have any info on this course "B737-800 Type Qualification course CAE/Ryanair"?

I emailed CAE and they sent me a sheet stating that it would cost over 29 000 Euro to get their recommendation to apply to Ryanair if you don't have 1 000 JAR 25 hours. That didn't include your 16 800 Euro for your Ryanair type rating. I thought maybe I was misreading this. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

[trainer too 2]

Flat tire better read the e-mail correct:

Step one: apply by e-mail to CAE cost zero

Step two: if you are lucky you get an invitation to get an assesment with an interview by Ryanair. Takes two to three days, depending on the schedule, involves, flying capabilities assement trainer, sim assesment (either B200 or B737 sim), presentation by CAE and Ryanair and interview by RYR. Cost appr Euro 350 to 500 depending on which sim.

Step three: only if you pass the above you are invited to the sim training for a 737-800 rating on RYR procedures and get a job offer of RYR subject to market conditions (thus no guarantee) cost Euro 29000 something

Step four: line training at RYR, you are bonded for Euro 16000 something to prevent you leaviung the party early. Cost the interest on the bond.

Straight forward as it was explained in the e-mail. It is a normal selection process only done through an external party and you are paying for it yourselves. The changes to get invited to a selection is as low as for any other selection.

[TFMonty]

Why anyone would pay 29000 Euro..............with no job guarntee is beyond me

[FlyingForFun]

TFMonty,

All of us have paid, or are planning on paying, much more than that just to get the fATPL. With no job guarantee. In fact, without even a possibility of any specific job.

FFF
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[TFMonty]

i know and thats the point like u i have an ATPL(Frozen) and just finsihed an MCC course.................hence an extra 29000 is a big ask..............and it amazes me the ammount of ppl that actually do it and then spend the best part of 20 years sorting out the £100,000 odd that they have borrowed..................add to that they presumably want to get a house and hence mortgage so from a financial point of view putting myself and future family in difficulty for the best part of my life is not my idea of a common sense move.

[vmoandco]

You should check out the flightinternational web site, they are recruiting DE Captains on a 2 year contract via Brookfield. The cost is 24500€ plus VAT (no training bond)

[five iron]

So why bother with the frozen ATPL in the first place.
If you dont go the whole hog, it is all wasted money anyway, isn't it?
A friend of mine has a frozen ATPL, and has just bitten the bullet and decided on paying for a type rating (ATR) and then is going to search for a job. This is called pro-activity. Ever heard of it?
I supose you could always mount your certificate on the dining room wall of your mortgaged propoerty as a conversation piece for dinner parties

[Megaton]

Simple: don't do it then. You're right: it doesn't seem fair but until it's illegal or financially inappropriate it's unlikely to change. Ultimately, nobody is forcing you to do anything.

[TFMonty]

The point I am making is that is evryone coming out of Training organisations said something along the line sof sod off we are not paying anymore then companies would be forced to change................

sadly i know that this will never happen but it would bring a smile to my face if it ever did

[flat-tire]

Costs
Admission fee and screening: € 350.-- (incl. VAT) per ab-initio student
Admission fee and simulator assessment: € 525.-- (incl. VAT) per experienced crew member
Type Qualification course: € 23.500.-- (excl. VAT) per student
JAR-OPS/Company Initials Training €1.000,-- (excl. VAT) per student
Extra costs (travelling, housing): at cost payable by student


Here is the exert from the email. It doesn't say anything other than the fact that I would spend "X" amount of money and walk away with nothing if Ryanair decides their not hiring. If I would buy a type rating I would have a licence to show for it.

I thank you for the clarification. Maybe this route is for people that have more money than me.......................I'll just stick with instructing at the moment. I seem to learn something everyday.

[Lupin]

What if I've 1000 hrs JAR-25??

Lupin

[wobblyprop]

if you have 1000hrs jar then look here

[batty]

I havnt heard of ANYONE sucessfully completing the course and not getting a job.

Even in the old days where you dint pay directly for a type rating you did in the long run with reduced wages for the duration of the bond. This was industry wide.

Now you are expected to pay for your type rating, but at the end of it your wages are far higher than mine ever where when I was bonded to start with.Slowly the paying for a rating is becoming industry wide, in a few years it will be common place I think.


I used to think it was a bad scheme paying for the rating , but at the end of the day your better off wage wise. Six of one half of the other.

The main risk you take is having the conviction you will pass the type rating, realy why should the airline take this risk when they dont need to?

[Galland]

...well spoken.

But where the heII do you get the money from ???

The bank ?! With no securities whatsoever ???

[flyergirl10]

So, Batty- Every time we change jobs, we pay a year's salary (or more) to get a new one?

Come on - get real- which other profession goes in for that? Much as you love flying, it won't buy you a reasinable living, nor will it give you much surplus cash in the pot by the time you retire!

[batty]

When you change jobs you often move sideways to an airline with a similar type so a new rating isnt required. Once in an airline if they move you to another type you dont pay.

And one way or another as I explained you end up paying for the rating , be it up front or in reduced wages for the period your bonded, so whats the difference?

I agree its hard ball, but thats the way the airline industry is going. Where do you get the money....a very good question. I guess the same place as the guys who have already done it, banks, savings, family etc etc. I believe the Easy Jet scheme arranges a loan for you and that its paid back from your wages over the first 5 or so years of working for them.

I know its harsh but thats they way of things now, the industry is in recession and they have to find ways of cutting costs in order to survive. 20 new pilots a year at £15000 a rating=£300,000 a big number on someones balance sheet that doesnt have to be there. More and more airlines will take this route

[Yarpy]

I hope this practice is not adopted by other professions.

Imagine if Doctors had to pay up front for their own training . . .