Scandi - french
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scandi - french
Hi French friends!
French is a beautiful language, but why do you speak french at major french airports? I still have not heard one good excuse!
This is not a battle between the french and english, I'm norwegian. In Norway we learn two types of norwegian, english and normally one more. It could be french, german or spanish. If you choose language in high school, you might learn them all. Obviously we also understand swedish and danish. If we the VIKINGS had done a good enough job, all of you french and britts would be speaking scandinavian.
THE INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGE IN AVIATION IS........ENGLISH!!!!!!
Remember, CDG had accidents due to language problems. It is a SAFETY problem.
We scandinavians are also proud of our language and protect it, but we communicate in english when we fly. What is the difference between the scani and french in this case???????????
French is a beautiful language, but why do you speak french at major french airports? I still have not heard one good excuse!
This is not a battle between the french and english, I'm norwegian. In Norway we learn two types of norwegian, english and normally one more. It could be french, german or spanish. If you choose language in high school, you might learn them all. Obviously we also understand swedish and danish. If we the VIKINGS had done a good enough job, all of you french and britts would be speaking scandinavian.
THE INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGE IN AVIATION IS........ENGLISH!!!!!!
Remember, CDG had accidents due to language problems. It is a SAFETY problem.
We scandinavians are also proud of our language and protect it, but we communicate in english when we fly. What is the difference between the scani and french in this case???????????
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EUROPE
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because for icao arabic spanish chinese russian english and french are OFFICAL LANGUAGES......sorry
but i agree with you i prefere speak in english in france and in spain too it s very dangerous so in france it s not so clear at this moment but for safety it could be better
br
but i agree with you i prefere speak in english in france and in spain too it s very dangerous so in france it s not so clear at this moment but for safety it could be better
br
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand why it is not CLEAR? It is a safety related problem!! You can not expect everybody to understand french...but they have to understand english! From 2008 also the chinese pilots will be required to understand english. Obviosly they (Air China) also resist.
From what I understand, the A380 problem was also related to a (computer) language problems between the french and germans. I say this is a EU problem. Aviation manuals in scandinavia are in english.
From what I understand, the A380 problem was also related to a (computer) language problems between the french and germans. I say this is a EU problem. Aviation manuals in scandinavia are in english.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EUROPE
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree twice...but it s very hard to change the spirit of the french pilots,specially for air france,and if you check the level of english of french people vs scandinavian people it s amazing....this is why we have lots of pbs to work in foreign countries but it s a old pb in france not for the pilots but for a lot of things regarding the english language...
and for the end i love the scandinavian countries but it s too hard if you want to learn one of this language....
bregards
and for the end i love the scandinavian countries but it s too hard if you want to learn one of this language....
bregards
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Down south
Age: 69
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Folks......
ICAO is an international organisation created as a collateral of the United Nations System....Official working languages, are English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian... Conferences are held with translations in all those official languages, as well as documents released...
This is true for all the United Nations and related organisations.
ICAO has nothing to do with the working language of crews..It is a non governmental organisation dealing with administrative matters of standardisation and rights of the air....
The working language as far as crews is concerned is English...Though so far it has been widely accepted to alternatively use national language domestically between crews and ATC... which has created many problems of understanding with foreign operators as regards to other traffic...
It is worth noticing that this matter has been submiutted by a Norwegian fellow...Scandinavians as well as dutch and to some extent Germans are quite fluent in English...down to the man of the street...
In France....The French are at a total loss when it comes to English,,,Forget the man of the street: chinese russian or english is the same for him...Crews and ATC comprehension of English is limited to plain basics...Virtually nobody can sustain a sound conversation in English even at the highest spheres of business finace and politics..
Northern countries are naturally endowed for anglo Saxon languages....even the accent is right....
The problem with the French -and this is not a criticism- is that they have a very hard time learning English.....Because of the Latin origin of their native language... The same can be said for Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks...
This is one of the reasons pilots from these countries are seldom seen outside their boundaries, especially in fast growing places like the middle east....
The reason is simple They know their job....but cannot communicate in English which is the working language in aeronautics.....
Chinese and Russians.....they only add to the problem...
ICAO is an international organisation created as a collateral of the United Nations System....Official working languages, are English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian... Conferences are held with translations in all those official languages, as well as documents released...
This is true for all the United Nations and related organisations.
ICAO has nothing to do with the working language of crews..It is a non governmental organisation dealing with administrative matters of standardisation and rights of the air....
The working language as far as crews is concerned is English...Though so far it has been widely accepted to alternatively use national language domestically between crews and ATC... which has created many problems of understanding with foreign operators as regards to other traffic...
It is worth noticing that this matter has been submiutted by a Norwegian fellow...Scandinavians as well as dutch and to some extent Germans are quite fluent in English...down to the man of the street...
In France....The French are at a total loss when it comes to English,,,Forget the man of the street: chinese russian or english is the same for him...Crews and ATC comprehension of English is limited to plain basics...Virtually nobody can sustain a sound conversation in English even at the highest spheres of business finace and politics..
Northern countries are naturally endowed for anglo Saxon languages....even the accent is right....
The problem with the French -and this is not a criticism- is that they have a very hard time learning English.....Because of the Latin origin of their native language... The same can be said for Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks...
This is one of the reasons pilots from these countries are seldom seen outside their boundaries, especially in fast growing places like the middle east....
The reason is simple They know their job....but cannot communicate in English which is the working language in aeronautics.....
Chinese and Russians.....they only add to the problem...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well reasoned!
I do understand it's a challenge for the latin-based languages to learn english. And the chinese.... But try to learn norwegian with it's three extra letters and several dialects.
But, as safety is concerned, broken english is better than none.
Like I said, french is a beautiful language - outside the cockpit!
I do understand it's a challenge for the latin-based languages to learn english. And the chinese.... But try to learn norwegian with it's three extra letters and several dialects.
But, as safety is concerned, broken english is better than none.
Like I said, french is a beautiful language - outside the cockpit!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: XXX
Age: 38
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it is a bad excuse for the latin language excuse
well in french a lot of word are the same with english...:
and we use a lot of words in english as an expression, i don't know why
administration
aviation
different
skateboard
un show
Chewing-gum
C'est un peu "has been"
telephone mobile => mobile phone
etc
etc
well in french a lot of word are the same with english...:
and we use a lot of words in english as an expression, i don't know why
administration
aviation
different
skateboard
un show
Chewing-gum
C'est un peu "has been"
telephone mobile => mobile phone
etc
etc
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Empati
first of all I hope you have shared your point of view on your Spanish friends forum, and all the other delinquants that are not speaking english on the RT. Or is it something with the French?
Secondely in the worst ever air desaster every body was speaking english on the radio but they still failed to comprehend each other and failed in the situational awarness (Tenerif). and there is a lot of other collisions that have happened where everybody spoke english and where situational awarness should have been at its best.
To me it doesn't matter what language you use as long as the message is put accross and is fully understood. (CRM: use all means available to solve a problem).
first of all I hope you have shared your point of view on your Spanish friends forum, and all the other delinquants that are not speaking english on the RT. Or is it something with the French?
Secondely in the worst ever air desaster every body was speaking english on the radio but they still failed to comprehend each other and failed in the situational awarness (Tenerif). and there is a lot of other collisions that have happened where everybody spoke english and where situational awarness should have been at its best.
To me it doesn't matter what language you use as long as the message is put accross and is fully understood. (CRM: use all means available to solve a problem).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sud747
Stop rationalizing! Of course, the spanish, the italian.. But why do you compare yourself to them? Compare yourself to the scandinavians or the dutch. Yes, this critique could go to other nations as well! And don't be so nervous! I love the french!
The Tenerif accident was due to many factors. Communication problems was one of them. But you are mixing apples and bananas! Here I am focusing on ONE of the potential reasons before an accident. A red flag, if you want. You are undergraving the importance of r/t in english. This is a dangerous misunderstanding on your part. Or is it a attitude problem?
Stop rationalizing! Of course, the spanish, the italian.. But why do you compare yourself to them? Compare yourself to the scandinavians or the dutch. Yes, this critique could go to other nations as well! And don't be so nervous! I love the french!
The Tenerif accident was due to many factors. Communication problems was one of them. But you are mixing apples and bananas! Here I am focusing on ONE of the potential reasons before an accident. A red flag, if you want. You are undergraving the importance of r/t in english. This is a dangerous misunderstanding on your part. Or is it a attitude problem?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: pomme....pomme !
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cher Empati , que je sache ce forum est un forum francophone, et nous ne sommes pas dans l avion pour parler (ecrire) en anglais !
Anyway, sud 747 is right, the worse accidents, Tenerif, the saudies over India,the dhl, etc... have nothing to do with english or whatsoever.
If an english speaking pilot is not able to understand french over France, and he thinks his safety is on danger, he should ask his operations dept. for not roster him for these kind of flights.
RD
Anyway, sud 747 is right, the worse accidents, Tenerif, the saudies over India,the dhl, etc... have nothing to do with english or whatsoever.
If an english speaking pilot is not able to understand french over France, and he thinks his safety is on danger, he should ask his operations dept. for not roster him for these kind of flights.
RD
Last edited by rduarte; 23rd Nov 2007 at 16:17.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: in a cave, grrrr!
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote" .....agree twice...but it s very hard to change the spirit of the french pilots,specially for air france,and if you check the level of english of french people vs scandinavian people it s amazing....this is why we have lots of pbs to work in foreign countries but it s a old pb in france not for the pilots but for a lot of things regarding the english language..." End of Quote
Currently, a lot of French pilots are hired by major airlines, such as EZ EK VY Ryanair etc.....
But! as a matter of fact, in CDG, AF mainly use french with the radio and the procedures are generally poor
AF are not all french pilots !!! aren't they?
Currently, a lot of French pilots are hired by major airlines, such as EZ EK VY Ryanair etc.....But! as a matter of fact, in CDG, AF mainly use french with the radio and the procedures are generally poor
AF are not all french pilots !!! aren't they?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rduarte
Strangely, in the scandi forum, nobody complains if english is used...
I can't believe your ignorance. You obviously did not pay attention in class!
Ever heard about the famous swiss cheese. You have more holes in your cheese. But I see your mindset. It IS an attitude problem!
The fact is that foreign pilots who fly to and over France have to stick a big red flag on the map due to this. How unnecessary! A civilized country like France! This said, there are plenty of other countries in Europe that is worse.
Strangely, in the scandi forum, nobody complains if english is used...
I can't believe your ignorance. You obviously did not pay attention in class!
Ever heard about the famous swiss cheese. You have more holes in your cheese. But I see your mindset. It IS an attitude problem!
The fact is that foreign pilots who fly to and over France have to stick a big red flag on the map due to this. How unnecessary! A civilized country like France! This said, there are plenty of other countries in Europe that is worse.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Down south
Age: 69
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's not get off track here....
There's got to be one language and one only used and understood up there....It happens to be English....
Some people especially from some countries have better abilities to grasp it...Others are struggling.....
For those struggling...make an effort !!!!
If you can practice and learn English so to get beyond the standardised very limited basic ATC Crew jargon...Do it..It's worth it..
Opportunities to improve.... in all fields and in all respects.... are endless....
There's got to be one language and one only used and understood up there....It happens to be English....
Some people especially from some countries have better abilities to grasp it...Others are struggling.....
For those struggling...make an effort !!!!
If you can practice and learn English so to get beyond the standardised very limited basic ATC Crew jargon...Do it..It's worth it..
Opportunities to improve.... in all fields and in all respects.... are endless....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I will conclude my thread here! I hope at least some readers got my point. Unfortunately, some pilots rather take a fast one in stead of considering all red flags. My point is still; use your native tongue on r/t, and some poor fellow out there might miss some vital information. It has happend before, and unfortunately it will happend again. Why learn the hard way?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AEP
Age: 80
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hola Empati...
xxx
The best evidence that some <... shall we call them Norwegians...> fail to understand English documents established by ICAO, is that ICAO agreed (in English) that the recommended international aviation language was to be English, yet that each ICAO member nation has the right to use its national language.
xxx
I think the national language in France is... French... ikke Norsk... ICAO does not say anywhere that English must be used... Can you understand the word "recommended"...?
xxx
Scandinavians are also at a loss with languages... I am certain you do not understand Finnish, yet a nation classified as Scandinavian... and, besides, the Icelanders claim to speak the real Viking language, that you probably do not understand either... but I have at times heard Finnish used on the radio in Tampere, and Icelandic in Keflavik... Listen, I had a contract with Sterling in Billund, some 20 years ago, and was laughing at our mixed cabin staff criticizing each other's language in the hotel's bar... the only point of agreement was to empty a lot of beers and liquors.
xxx
Shall we talk about the Lapp language probably spoken around Hammerfest...?
Or come down here in South America, and try Guarani in Paraguay...
Laisse aux Gaulois le droit de parler la langue d'Asterix et Obélix...
"Lutèce, Menhir 320 en vent arrière, nous commençons l'étape de base"
"Ils sont fous ces Anglais"
xxx
Happy contrails - and "sköll"
xxx
The best evidence that some <... shall we call them Norwegians...> fail to understand English documents established by ICAO, is that ICAO agreed (in English) that the recommended international aviation language was to be English, yet that each ICAO member nation has the right to use its national language.
xxx
I think the national language in France is... French... ikke Norsk... ICAO does not say anywhere that English must be used... Can you understand the word "recommended"...?
xxx
Scandinavians are also at a loss with languages... I am certain you do not understand Finnish, yet a nation classified as Scandinavian... and, besides, the Icelanders claim to speak the real Viking language, that you probably do not understand either... but I have at times heard Finnish used on the radio in Tampere, and Icelandic in Keflavik... Listen, I had a contract with Sterling in Billund, some 20 years ago, and was laughing at our mixed cabin staff criticizing each other's language in the hotel's bar... the only point of agreement was to empty a lot of beers and liquors.
xxx
Shall we talk about the Lapp language probably spoken around Hammerfest...?
Or come down here in South America, and try Guarani in Paraguay...
Laisse aux Gaulois le droit de parler la langue d'Asterix et Obélix...
"Lutèce, Menhir 320 en vent arrière, nous commençons l'étape de base"
"Ils sont fous ces Anglais"
xxx
Happy contrails - and "sköll"
Scandinavia
BelArgUSA
For info: Scandinavia consists of Norway, Sweden and Denmark only.
..Funny thing is that the French pilots have no problem speaking English outside of France
S&N
For info: Scandinavia consists of Norway, Sweden and Denmark only.
..Funny thing is that the French pilots have no problem speaking English outside of France
S&N