The MAN-STN-CDG will not happen with the B757 the way it is now as the MAN-STN sector would be an internal flight within one country. Current FedEx feeders fly country to country. As some said earlier in the thread, the EU is not a country.

I dont like it either,but they may well get to do it as its not dealing with the United States Of Europe,but many states.However a route Man-Stn is an internal trip in the UK,surely these types of ops could be sorted.
By and large when you see UPS do this in Europe they use StarAir.Cgn Dub Snn and Cgn Lys TLs being examples.
Politicians took away our Duty Free,but united unity union alas still mean nothing officially for us.It is these people that must change the way things happen.I have argued against this here in the past but now accept no Americans are doing wrong,things must change so that what is happening is wrong,until then I will look jealously at their 757s on the ramp in Cologne and hope.

UPS indeed only goes internationally as far as I know and otherwise takes StarAir. But FEDEX already flies within Germany, they have a trip CGN-ATH-TLV-MUC-CGN. This route is operated by B757 since they´ve taken it over from the Airbus. I believe they also operate a CDG-CGN-MUC trip by B757.

UPS does a STN-CGN-STN with a 767. Both sectors are after or prior a long haul. I believe its PHL-STN-CGN-STN-SDF with an aircraft change in CGN

This is similar to non-United States airlines operating routes such as [non-US]-JFK-ORD-[non-US].

In your example no freight can be loaded in MUC for CGN. Freight can be off loaded in MUC, and freight with a destination outside of Germany can be loaded in MUC and carried through CGN. But if FEDEX wants to move freight between MUC and CGN they will have to find another way.

In my opinion there is no entity ( CAA , EASA , BALPA , the EU , IFALPA , ICAO ) that has the desire , will , strength , ability , negotiating skills , or mandate to prevent US - registered a/c operated by a US Carrier operating from within , to , or from any point in the EU. Bilaterals rule the day. This will only be solved at a political level , and the US has Europe on it`s knees , bent over asking for more.

What many Europeans don’t seem to realize is that there is at least one large EU freight airline that has for many years done exactly the same as Fedex is now planning, should they too be stopped? The only difference is that the pilots are not based in the USA. Said airline has many flights a week that carry freight from a country other than their own to and from the USA on direct flights that do not transit their home country. This is under the relevant freedom of the air agreement (5th or 7th?).

Despite the fact that the EU now negotiates air service agreements there is no legal definition that classifies the EU as a country and the negotiation is made on behalf of all individual countries, which then apply the agreement. It is the EU who have agreed 8th freedom rights within the EU meaning any EU company can fly between any two EU countries or within a single country which is not their own domicile.

What is the difference between Fedex basing pilots in CGN and, say, Ryanair (Irish) basing pilots in Spain and not necessarily hiring Spanish pilots under these 8th freedom rights.

However European you might feel there is no proposal (yet) to show your nationality in your passport as European, therefore all international air service agreements must be followed between each country therein, I hope nobody would advocate going back to the highly regulated days of yesteryear and rescind these agreements

The issue of basing is irrelevant really as whether the pilots are based or rotate through the particular city doesn’t alter the fact that the aircraft are flown by employees of the company. In fact basing at least puts a little into the local economy.

The only important change to lobby for is the right of any nationality to live and work in the US or Europe but for that you will have to argue with the relevant immigration department or politician. Good luck.




Flightwatch (a European)

I do agree with you Big J,.
but as you say, that particular airline is not basing a/c and crew in the US but just exercising whatever freedom rights there are.
Would they offer a US base, they would be pressed to hire US crew or crew with a US working/ residential permit. It has nothing to do with a european or individual county thing it is that the US is unilaterally taking rights in foreign countries that it is not granting these countries. (Talk about the visa again!).
Enjoy Texas!
S.

The crews may be in CGN but the flights are out of CDG

Are you sure though? I was under the impression that there was no 7th freedom involved and instead flights between the US and Central/South America are scheduled charter flights for Panalpina (and others were operated on behalf of Mexicana until its demise).

The closest comparison comes from talking boxes. Before 9/11, Iberia had a mini-hub in MIA connecting MAD/BCN with Central/South America. Planes and crews based in MIA, it was all connecting traffic, no local traffic allowed if I recall correctly.

(btw 5th freedom is the right to pick up in a country and transport to another country *via* the home country)

Fedex is not considered an airline......... they basically deliver the mail.

Your legislator/Representative doesn't give a damn about 50 Pilot jobs when over a thousand Europeans have been employed for non-flying jobs and millions added to the battered EU economy.

UR wasting your time.............life is not fair.

The European Authorities are about to legislate [ NPRM] on the use of non European= FAA pilot licences by pilots operating out of such European bases.

The thought of many USA pilots having to requalify with the JAA ATPL is unthinkable.

What will happen do we think.

Goodness me !

Koi

If you would read the contract you would see that we are not going to be domiciled in CGN.......:)

It's not about domicile, it's about Union A exercising rights in Union B, that Union A is not allowing Union B within Union A itself.

If this thing goes through, the EU will have to be involved, as this will be unfair competition if there ever was any!!!

WIll they have to sit the exams in German or would they have to learn English and sit them.:)