Yes, I guess so.

Just wanted some of the unembellished info from those directly involved on the other side of the pond.

I keep remembering all the other union guys from the past and currently scheduled number of furloughs/downgrades (years worth) during the management/labor struggles that ended up on the street while non-union junior guys in far away lands got upgraded and never suffered over the years. I remember them very well while others forget. Considering what they were truly used for, AABO had a pretty good run of it if the rumors are true.

May serve as a warning to many that those great opportunities for being hired and upgraded immediately may be due to unsavory labor relations.

with all due respects
 

And I mean all due respects, as I've had the pleasure of working with the AACS guys. The silence is deafening, and while I sympathize with anyone that loses their job, I did. But there was a fair amount of gloating from the AACS guys on here sort of rubbing noses in the situation. Albeit may have been a defensive mode they fell into, perhaps feeling attacked. But let this serve as a reminder to all that the bickering and posturing from mainline and AACS is exactly the sort of tactic the 5Y execs loved. Perhaps no one saw it coming, but it did and let it remind all what levels management will stoop to.

I loved working at 5Y because the crewmembers were the best I've ever worked with. Many in the GCC were the best in their field as well, and it was a pleasure working with them as well. You'd be surprised how many people there actually care about what they do, how it affects others (namely the crews) and are just as sickened by the management style that we've had to deal with since Michael passed away. I feel for the mainline guys who have been slapped in the face, they made 5Y what it was, and what it could have been. I've also seen the hardwork of the AACS guys.

So it's not a pleasant thing for me to see so many affected. All I hope for is the guys that built Atlas get the respect and admiration for making 5Y such a powerhouse. And respect for the AACS guys who altough probably should never have been brought on board, did an excellent job and worked their asses off along side the mainline crewmembers. None of you are responsible for how management used you against each other, so less poinson on your words would be the right thing to do. If the roles were reversed each side would be doing exactly what they complain the other side has done, you know it.

All endless bickering aside - I would simply like to know the facts of what is going on regarding AABO from someone who really knows. Mgmt. isn't saying anything & the rumor mill is like reading tea leaves. So if anyone with actual knowledge could shed a little light on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. I am really not interested in any rubbing of noses, pointing of fingers, gloating or any other ultimately pointless BS - I would just like to know what is going on. Might be a nice change - for once.

Cheers & best of luck to everyone

I think if you wait a week or two, you'll have your answer. The letter to the AABO pilots was dated April 8th and there is a requirement to have a 30-day period to discuss options. Since it is now May 8th, but the weekend, I would expect an announcement sometime in the next business week. IMHO.

so long goodbye see ay later
 

:rolleyes: AABO is out of here. most of em were good guys ,and I enjoyed flying with them. so long
.

Was this effective today?

I too thought that most were good guys and consider many as friends. It was an unfortunate situation that brought them to Atlas and unfortunate for them that it ended as it did.

I wish them the best of luck.

Is this a rumor or a fact?

Skualo3

"Is this a rumor or a fact"?


Lot's of talk, nothing official announced as of yet.
Story goes, 6/1 Stanstead base closed, 6/31 all AABO pilots terminated.

Again.... Story's only so far. No word from the Company or our new union.

And yes, most were really good guy's and I wish them the best.

Thanks Fr8Dog,

I am one of the many on the F list, I would just like to know what and when, so that I can put a date on the availability line of my resume....

I have not flown with all of the AABO guys, the one that I have met have been super nice, they have thought me a lot and for that I am grateful, I can see both sides of the story.
I would just like to know, like everybody else, what is going on.

whats the current furlough count? will u recall or hire after stn is closed?

It appears that it will not result in a recall, just some canceled furloughs scheduled in June and July.

What happens to the ground staff working for Atlas in STN if AABO is going/gone??

Flightmech

"What happens to the ground staff working for Atlas in STN if AABO is going/gone"??

Company is saying that the office is to remain open to support the maintenance staff in Dubai and Europe.

And on a good note: The Company is giving all of the AABO pilots fresh PC's before they leave so they are current, and may be able to find a new job.

Most of the AABO guy's have been an absolute pleasure to work with, and I wish them all the best.


FR8

Another "good boy" benefit for the "non union strike replacement group" that was never shared with the union guys when we got furloughed and the currently furloughed ones. Seems to be a little more salt in the union guys wounds as they depart, but at least the end is nearing on that thorn in the side.

I realize it is bad form and sour grapes of me to be this way, but I don't remember any concern from the AABO contingent when our guys were regularly furloughed and down graded while they enjoyed being employed and upgraded at the same time.

A large number of them realized what they joined up for. If not immediately, soon afterwards. The smart ones left as soon as they got enough qualifications and a job offer to move on. The others (42 remaining out of what had been about 175) could not get placement elsewhere or just thought the joyride was never going to end.

I think our "best wishes" would be better spent on those that are currently furloughed and downgraded at mainline (repeated many times over the years) vs those that tried to stay on the joy ride at AABO.

And on a good note: The Company is giving all of the AABO pilots fresh PC's before they leave so they are current, and may be able to find a new job.

It would have been nice if the company had done that for the furloughed guys.

Nity & Jetjock,

What you fail to admit here is that those guys answered an add for 74 drivers. It did not say pilots wanted to bust the union, or pilots wanted to take jobs away from Americans. These are people with families and bills to pay just like the rest of us. This is mis-placed anger on your parts. What did you expect them to do? Oh, now that I am at Atlas and flying the line I see that we were used as pawns to screw the mainline pilots, I guess we should quit and go find a job somewhere else. The Company and Cato are the ones that screwed us, and our own people that jumped seniority to get a captain’s seat out of order. Yes it would have been the right thing to give our guys that got furloughed a fresh PC as well. But as far as not wishing most of them well, I don’t agree. They had the same 10% Dick Heads over there as we do over here, sometimes I think our % is a little higher.

There is no "mis-placed" anger here. I used no negative context in relation to the AABO guys. My previous post support that.

My beef is with the fact that the company dumped me and all the other furloughed guys out on the street non current. Many of us requested PC's and were told no. Why the double standard?

"There is no "mis-placed" anger here. I used no negative context in relation to the AABO guys. My previous post support that.

My beef is with the fact that the company dumped me and all the other furloughed guys out on the street non current. Many of us requested PC's and were told no. Why the double standard"?

Jetjock,

Agreed and I apologize, I would be willing to bet it was part of the agreement with the AABO pilots between them and the Company. Trying to avoid another legal battle that AAWW never seems to win.

For the most part yes. After finding out what they were being used for, look for another job and leave before the current end result we see now. The smarter ones did knowing these type of jobs don't have a long life span.

Guess it was too hard for the remaining AABO guys to give up a good deal that was gained at only the cost of others or just could not get hired elsewhere.

Nity, I know you, and you are much smarter than that. This is human nature we are talking about. These guys had a job that was paying their bills. Why would they up and go? It is not like there was tons of jobs out there even then.

Not so long ago, Cargolux had an American Chief Pilot. He was well qualified and had been with the company for years.

Should he have been thrown out for being American?

CR2
Can we take it a step further? Did the American Chief Pilot get 15, 30, 45 days notice and pay incentives when he was asked to leave? My heartburn is with the EU employment rules when working with a US company and are not reciprocal when things are reversed.
bpp

CR2 wrote:
Atlas mainline has non-American passport holders working in the group. AACS/AABO has Americans. The issues are not about nationality, they are about the structure.

Well said 742.

The organization/group known as AABO was formed solely as a deterrent to organized labor. Started within weeks of Atlas voting a union in. The issue has never been a Euro/American hate fest. As a matter of fact, AABO has shafted a number of non-US guys along with US guys on continued employment and upgrades at mainline.

CR2,

Not to start an new argument and I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I see far more Europeans flying for US companies than I see Americans flying for European companies in my trolling around the world the last 25 years.

hi guys,

the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!
some are lucky that they have to go to mia in the last couple month of employment.and all mainline guys have the right to be recalled when things getting better.AABO pilots will be terminated with no chance to come back.

Asked that of an AABO guy in a May recurrent class, which is his base month. Not sure how that worked out since he would be good till the end of June and he was in a May recurrent class at the time in MIA. Maybe he is on Richard R.'s good list.

Hope your right though. Less salt in the wounds of the furloughed Atlas Mainline guys that are scheduled for furlough at the end of May and I want to actually see a conclusion to this one problem among the many at Atlas.

From 747drivers

"the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!"


What ever you say, I will not argue with someone that has been here as long as you have. You obviously have the inside scoop.

Why do I continue to :ugh:

Just glad the nightmare is almost over. Let this teach a lesson to our current union so that this mistake does not happen EVER again!

Don't feel bad for the aabos they all got more 747 PIC time, and made at least 350,000 more than some 12 year Atlas FOs. Talk about lost income, and career expectations.

Furloughs
 

14 more furloughs announced. I think that puts it at 62 of us on the street now. It will be interesting to see how muddy the waters get after the combined Polar/Atlas contract is signed. There are pilots at Polar who are junior to some Atlas pilots. What a mess!!!

I miss the big bird, but this is a crash course in the realities of life in the airlines.

Nitty,

You can't use the "grace month" without having recurrent. If the base month is May and the company planned on skipping recurrent since he'll be gone in June, when you do the look back, everything in June would be illegal since there was no training/checking within the last the last 6/12.

Have seen the tactic used at Atlas, Evergreen and at others. I don't think that would keep a guy from a furlough or termination just because he is in his grace month when he was canned.

Good or bad, it has been done in the past. With the FAA, I've notice they rather spend time chasing crewmembers (easier prey) rather than getting the airline to comply with regulations. Companies usually tap dance when called to the mat and come up with a "new program" to stop the problem which makes the FAA happy. We as crewmembers just get violated.

TimeOnTarget

January 17, 2009
"Beav
The guys at Atlas are finding out that the "no bump no flush" they were so happy about is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways."

Posted in January and even more true today.

I think it's a matter of being planned. If someone turned 60/65 in their grace month it's not like you couldn't figure this out in advance. Same thing for furloughs planned for a couple months.

Got an FAR or even an AC reference for that?

There is a Nov of 71 Chief Counsel intrepretation that is the FAA's final word on the subject. Unfortunately their online stuff only goes back to 1990 and my books only go back to 1975.

From references in later questions, it looks like there have been a couple views in the FAA. It was an issue at a prior job with someone reaching 60 in their grace month. It came down to if you did a look back after his last flight, when was the last PC and ground school? If it was more than 12 months from the last flight, that was a problem.

121.401 Training program: General.

(a) Each certificate holder shall:
.....
(b) Whenever a crewmember or aircraft dispatcher who is required to take recurrent training, a flight check, or a competence check, takes the check or completes the training in the calendar month before or after the calendar month in which that training or check is required, he is considered to have taken or completed it in the calendar month in which it was required.

award
 

seems like 7 months of excess pay for a dying profession, that started it's death spiral in the mid 80's. 757,747-400,A300-600,A320,A319,A330,A340, should have gotten a Pilot's license.

Dying profession, YES. Excess pay??, go ahead and walk in their shoes. As an Engineer upgrade myself, I was fortunate enough to be in a position to acquire my ratings, at considerable expense. Not everyone is as fortunate in available funds or time.

Quote:

---

"should have gotten a Pilot's license"

---

A few of the Polar FE's did have their pilot's license's and ratings, but not all were chosen to upgrade. One of those left behind even had a type rating. . . . A committee of one decided their upgrade selections if that says anything.