B-KAG Engine strike at MAN
 

Dragonair / Cathay B747F engine cowlings struck the runway on landing, in the early hours of this morning at Manchester. One burst tyre and cowling damage.

T'was a tad windy last night 55 knots x wind.

CrossWind Landings
 

What was the weather at the time? I was under the impression that the maximum X-Wind component for the 747-400 series was less than this? Or was this a gust incident?

I'm open to correction on the maximum X-Wind!

Glad no one was injured tho, bit o bent metal and pride i'm sure.

Spru!

Isn't this the one they have just fixed and finally returned to service after flap damage?

This was a couple of hours earlier when stuff was diverting, the winds became very gusty during showers, continued into the night.

METAR: EGCC 292250Z 28036G55KT 250V310 3700 SHRA FEW024 SCT029 10/07 Q0992
BECMG 27027G40KT 9999 NSW

No that was one of CX's Classics at FRA, HVY I believe. Struck 3 pods apparently. No 4 & 3 followed by No 1. :eek:

Yes it is the same 744 that had flaps changed there a little while back. The actual flap change took 8 hrs the rest of the time was logistics and weather.

Doesn't look like a 55kn xwind; more like about 25kn reducing to 15kn with gusts 35kn reducing to 20kn.
Still a handful on a dark and dirty night, tired etc.

EGCC METARs
 

EGCC 010420Z 28029G42KT 9999 FEW030 SCT040 08/02 Q0998
EGCC 010350Z 27027G44KT 9999 FEW033 SCT036 08/02 Q0998 NOSIG
EGCC 010320Z 28028G39KT 9999 SCT034 BKN043 08/02 Q0997 NOSIG
EGCC 010250Z 28028KT 9999 FEW031 SCT038 08/02 Q0996 NOSIG
EGCC 010220Z 28023G35KT 9999 FEW038 SCT045 08/02 Q0995 NOSIG
EGCC 010150Z 28021KT 9999 FEW040 SCT045 08/02 Q0994 NOSIG
EGCC 010120Z 28024G39KT 9999 FEW032 08/03 Q0994 NOSIG
EGCC 010050Z 27024G34KT 9999 FEW028 SCT032 09/04 Q0993
EGCC 010020Z 26025G38KT 9999 FEW022 SCT026 09/05 Q0993 TEMPO SHRA
EGCC 292350Z 27024G37KT 9999 FEW032 08/05 Q0992 TEMPO SHRA
EGCC 292320Z 27025G36KT 7000 SHRA FEW022 SCT026 08/05 Q0993 BECMG NSW
EGCC 292250Z 28036G55KT 250V310 3700 SHRA FEW024 SCT029 10/07 Q0992 BECMG 27027G40KT 9999 NSW
EGCC 292220Z 26035KT 9999 SCT030 12/07 Q0991 TEMPO SHRA

Mag. Variation = 3W
Therefore, at 0120z, mean Wind bearing = 283(M)
Rwys 24L/R bearing 234(M)
Therefore, at 0120z, wind gust to 39 kts @ at (or more than) 50 degrees off Rwy bearing.
50 deg = 0.75
0.75 X 39 kts = 30 kts X-W/C

[For the uninitiated, wind bearings usually increase with gust in N. Hemisphere. In this case that would represent a "double-wammy", as far as the crosswind component is concerned.]
From 2350z, no rain reported.

Hope this helps.

Chris,
Very good point.
Glad I wasn't flying it, although I'd rather have been in the old dowager than a 737. Our ex fast jet guys used to comment on it's inertia but, sometimes, a bit of inertia calms things down a bit :eek::ok:

Landed at Manch in an Airbus A330 at around 0020Z - Flap 3. It was very bumpy from Dayne and on the 23R approach. A little sporty. 3,000ft wind in the region of 290/50kts but steady. Wind correctly shown as around 280/25G38-42 at touchdown and on instantaneous ND W/V readout. IAS Speed variation -5+10kts. Runway wet x 3 with showers to the North.

Glad we didnt arrive an hour earlier though as HF VOLMET gave gusts to 55kts. Raised a few eyebrows over France tho!!

DTG

At a few points during the night, the Twr controller reported gusting to 62kts! Watching the approaches, it was very hairy indeed! Plenty of aircraft were going missed from upto 4 miles to touchdown.

Engine pod strikes
 

Yikes! I hope they did a clean sweep of the runway after that. Those pesky nuts & bolts, bits and pieces taht came off can prove really dangerous to following aircrafts.

Cx/ Ka Xwind limit B744 is 30 knots, despite the Fctm guidelines being higher.

Molokai

Fear not. The runway was closed for all operations for some 40 minutes after the event whilst a very thorough runway inspection was carried out using a mobile lighting tower and several inspection vehicles :ok:

Suzeman

Interesting. With wind from that direction at MAN you need to get pretty near to the ground where it quite often calms down if you want to make a serious attempt at landing. (Don't get me wrong, no criticism of someone canning it at 4nm) We did so at midnight and it wasn't pretty all the way to the last 100' when it just steadied enough to be acceptable. Only other 'better' option at that time was LPL where it was howling, but only 10 degrees off the runway.

PP

Minimum GS on windshear approaches
 

Quote from Down Three Greens:
3,000ft wind in the region of 290/50kts but steady. Wind correctly shown as around 280/25G38-42 at touchdown and on instantaneous ND W/V readout. IAS Speed variation -5+10kts.
[Unquote]

Presume GS-MINI (managed speed) was in use? How do you like it? In my experience, new guys (on the A320) used to be very suspicious of it until they got used to it. Also - on the FMC PERF page - they would often insert a higher wind strength than the mean wind reported by the tower, in the mistaken belief this would give them more fat above VLS, to allow for wind shear. [In fact, of course, the reverse is the case, because it results in a lower minimum GS, even though the "managed" IAS is higher.]

Excuse me for appearing to go off-topic, but would be interested to hear your experience of this last night. The B747, of course, does not have (automatic) GS-Mini.

Chris

We were downwind right under vectors with an airspeed of 190kts and ground speed of 275kts at 5000'.:ooh: Nice vectoring by the approach controller though, turned on just right. ohh errr.:p

PP

Definition of having a bad day
 

Hi I have now changed my definition of having a bad day. Three POD strikes,bugger, bugger, bugger, oh that one's ok...........................

More damage than first thought, all 4 engine coulings hit the runway with No 4 engine being a write-off. Will be grounded at MAN for at least 6 weeks pending repair.

Incorrect, 1, 2 & 4 hit, no 1 & 2 nose cowls and fan cowls damaged but repairable. These will be removed and sent for repair (2 week turnaround).
No 4 C ducts damaged, to be replaced, no 4 nose and fan cowls damaged, repairable I think, no4 engine to be replaced as a precaution due some damage to gearbox, (engine will be overhauled).

So is she still employed?

yes 6 weeks has been quoted, this is due to the fact there are no spare nose/fan cowls, which I'm told will take 2 weeks to repair in Singapore, so they have to be removed, sent, repaired, shipped back and refitted.

It's all part of a cunning plot to solve the KA crewing problem on the 400F...

:}:}:}

If She gets the sack, you will find the rest of the line pilots reducing their own crosswind limits down to 5 or 10 kts- Why risk any more?

Maybe i missed something in reading, but did she slam that hard onto the runway that due to the wingflex the pods it the runway?

Female chinese Captain!
 

Just for info. The captain was a chinese female, married to somebody in the KA trainings department. According to some KA F/O's who flew with her on the Airbus she was quite afraid of bad wx conditions and reportably unconfortable on the 400, looking to go back on the airbus.
My guess she won't be transfering to CX freighters!
The LH Airbus 320 in Hamburg was a female driver too!:eek:.

Flight Crew Named
 

The crew have been named today as....

Captain Wan Win Lowe
First officer Wat Wen Wong
Flight Engineer Foo King El

When landing at MAN the day after the incident, I noticed a nice set of 747 tyre tracks, they were well left of the normal rubber marks and at about 30 degrees to the centreline, I presume this is the impact ! / touchdown point for B-KAG ??

I still can't picture how you can get a strike on an inboard engine. :confused:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/747.jpg

Great shot !

No weight on the landing gear at this point is there ?

So add a heavy landing combined with wing down and Manchesters cobbled runway, I think its possible :)

Names
 

T3huy:

Blilliant!!

...brilliant? If you're six years old.

Borat you buffoon. 'Just for info'.

I see all the smart-a*se, armchair-experts out in force now with a bit of smug racism thrown in for good measure. I assume you are wannabe (PPL's) as nobody who's ever been in this situation, flown in HK typhoons or battled a heavy 74 in max x-wind would ever be as arrogant as to post in this manner.

PPRune. The 'P' bit stands for 'Professional'

......professional? A bit non PC perhaps, but not bad. The big thing about max crosswind gusting conditions is that if your little ring tightens too much, GO AROUND and find somewhere else to land. The need to save face and get it down on your intended runway has cost many a life in this industry over the years. It's just not worth it. Ever.

What was the wind like in AMS at the time, I wonder?

Hi -f@ckin-larious

:}:}:}

Foo King El.........

Nothing to do with racism just HUMOUR

there but for the grace.......
 

Spanners

Just out of interest, from an engineering point of view what checks are required of the rest of the wing/strut/pod structure after an pod strike incident like this? There must be huge stresses placed on the wing to strut and strut to pod fittings. Although Boeing builds em good, there must be a point beyond which it's becomes a lot more involved than just a bit of panel beating? :O

Buggs

As an instructor with over 1000 hrs training Chineese airline cadets. it does not surprise me in the least. They have an attitude to flying that simply horrifies me, unfortunately it doesnt change when they get onto the jets.

Airmanship is a concept that they just cannot under stand, and they dont want to understand.......to put it bluntly.

Racism?........no, just the way it is and nothing is going to change it ever.

You are 100% correct, its nothing to do with Racism its just a very different way of thinking... lets face it many here in Hong Kong can't master walking in a straight line or get confused when other drivers flash their lights at them for doing 40kph in the fastlane :ugh: ....... So you have to expect the western and Asian flying culture to be .... different.

forget

Draw your line with a small nose-down attitude (compressed nose-wheel) and you will see a very different picture.

Airclues

Inboard engine strike? Well it can happen, because it did happen. Needs a bit of work to achieve it though. A serious Rate of Descent on touch-down to compress a lot of oleos, plus a ‘Bad Attitude’.

What’s the normal deck angle on a 747 approach, 12 degrees? But, if you work at it, you can still land a 747 nose wheel first. BA showed me one night at Perth. I was ready for it as we’d been strangely nose down throughout the approach – the rest of the punters weren’t - and were very surprised when ceiling panels came down around their ears as the main gear hit.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...as/1325178.jpg

Those of you that think I was just having a pop at the Chinese, I nearly forgot to mention the repairs will be carried out under the supervision of Manchester based engineer Arthur Bleedin Cowlingon.