Avient ?
 

Hello Chaps,
Just noticed that Avient are looking for an Ops Manager, anyone know anything about them, what they are like to work for etc etc and potentially what the money may be ?

Thanks in advance

Mike

Avient
 

It will do you good to Google "Avient" and its alleged owner "Andrew Smith", and even search for info about this outfit and Mr Smith on this forum. Ample information about what they allegedly have been up to is available on the web.

How this guy manages to weave and duck-and-dive responsibility for his actions and activities in the Congo remains a mystery, or perhaps not!
Others not so fortunate have ended up in The Hague and held accountable. Every other operator in the same line of business has been hounded out of a living but it seems there is one set of rules for the British and Americans, and another for the rest of the world.

Seems Avient's 3rd DC10 is in the hanger at MSE.

Busy times ahead for them.

Anyone working for Avient on the 10 have any positive spin on the company?

This About Sums Up Avients Source Of Fortune
 

Briton linked to Congo war crimes

Jon Swain – The Times
THE deadliest war in the world was raging and hundreds were dying every day when Graham Pelham, a former special forces operative in the French Foreign Legion, reported for duty in the Congo. He had been appointed country manager of Avient, an air cargo company run by Andrew Smith, a former British army officer.

What he discovered has led, seven years on, to moves in Britain to investigate Smith — a pillar of the community in the peaceful Wiltshire village where he lives — for possible war crimes.
The conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which had drawn in troops from six African nations, was of huge concern to the UN. By the time the war ended in 2003 more than 3m people had died. The civilian toll was the highest anywhere since the second world war.
Pelham, an Irishman, was acting as an undercover investigator for the UN security council. He had been sent to the Congo to find out about the activities of another company that was believed to be trafficking in illicit weapons and diamonds.
Instead he reported back to his controller on the activities of the company employing him.
Avient’s role was supposed to be logistical but Pelham says he was put in charge of helicopter gunships and civilian aircraft that had been converted to drop bombs and were being flown by Avient crews.
Under a crewing agreement Smith had signed with General Joseph Kabila, the future president of the Congo, on September 21, 1999, Avient undertook to provide aircrew who would “operate along and behind the enemy lines in support of ground troops and against the invading forces”.
Pelham claims he found that Ukrainian and Russian aircrews recruited by Avient on behalf of the Congolese airforce were flying blanket bombing raids that in all probability were killing and maiming civilians caught in the war zone thousands of feet below.
Rudimentary bombs made from industrial gas cylinders filled with TNT were being rolled out of the backs of giant Antonov transport aircraft flown at high altitude in indiscriminate raids, according to Pelham.
The crewing agreement signed by Smith and Kabila noted that Avient was acting as an “intermediary to facilitate the supply” of aircrew and said the company could not be held accountable for the individual performance of crew members.
Pelham says that the reality was different. He alleges that Avient was providing crews for aircraft involved in military activities, including Antonovs and an MI-24 attack helicopter gunship, and that Smith knew what they were doing.
“I was reporting to him and he was completely aware of what was going on,” Pelham said. “It was not the government coming to Smith and saying, ‘Can we use these aircraft for these missions like this?’ It was, ‘You have got a problem. You do not have helicopter support and you do not have military aircraft support. Let us assist you. We will run that for you’.”
At one point, he claims, he tried to put a stop to the bombing by informing Smith that he was not happy about the missions. But he says in a sworn affidavit that Smith replied: “This is what Avient is there for and it is part of the fun of Avient’s activities.”
Last week Pelham spoke to The Sunday Times about his clandestine mission in the Congo and said he had discovered that Avient crews were not only rolling crude bombs out of the backs of their aircraft but strafing from a MI-24 helicopter gunship.
“All the aircraft that were being used by Avient were kitted out on the back with rollers on the floor,” Pelham said. “We then constructed special pallets that could slide along the rollers to deploy bombs out of the back. And we rigged them so that as the pallets rolled towards the back the safety catch on the bombs would come off.”
()He added: “Bombs were being dropped from high altitude and there was no accuracy in it. It was blanket bombing.”
At one point, Pelham said, he learnt that Avient crews were to drop aviation-fuel bombs, which he knew to be “very destructive”. He said he had foiled this by claiming he did not know how to arm the bombs and that nobody else should try because they had sophisticated pressure devices that could detonate on change of altitude.
Just before he arrived, an Antonov 12 cargo plane loaded with bombs had blown up while taking off from Mbandaka airfield. All six Avient crewmen had died.
Pelham’s testimony is to be presented with other documentary evidence to Lord Goldsmith, the attorney general, by Rights and Accountability in Development (RAID), an Oxford-based group campaigning for corporate responsibility in the Congo.
Tricia Feeney, the group’s executive director, said: “In view of the gravity of the allegations and the evidence that RAID has compiled we are calling on the attorney general to instigate a full investigation into whether the activities of Andrew Smith as director of Avient during the war in the Congo constitute complicity in war crimes.”
The development may embarrass the government. Smith has claimed that he cleared his operations with the British high commission in Harare, the Zimbabwean capital, where Avient is registered, and that diplomats were aware of his role in providing aircrews for the Congo government.
Also the Department of Trade and Industry has previously exonerated Smith of mercenary activities in the Congo following evidence presented by the United Nations.
In 2002, a UN panel of experts named Avient among companies whose activities in the Congo were alleged to have breached international norms. In 2004, however, the DTI found that a number of allegations were unsubstantiated. It accepted that the company was “working within a contractual arrangement with the officially recognised government in the area”.
RAID is to press the DTI to reopen its investigation into whether Avient breached the guidelines of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), to which Britain adheres.
Much of the bombing in the Congo in 1999 and 2000 was directed at rebel forces backed by Ugandan troops in Equator province. More than 200,000 people were forced to flee to neighbouring countries and thousands more survived in the forest.
According to Feeney, schools and hospitals were hit and Equator province now has more problems with unexploded ordnance than anywhere else in the Congo.
Smith has denied responsibility for the actions of his aircrews in the Congo. He said: “It is a matter of record that I worked for a company which assisted the government of the DRC to locate crews to fly transport aircraft and helicopters.
“It is also a matter of record that the company was not responsible for the activities of any crew. This lay directly with the legally recognised government of the country. It was also a policy that the company would not comment on matters of state or government.
“The company I was working for at the time was not a UK entity and its activities were conducted with full disclosure to the authorities relevant to its base of operations.”
He now runs his Avient air cargo business from his Wiltshire home, a world away from the war-scarred Congo, and says his fleet of aircraft fly the world. A former officer in the Queen’s Gurkha Engineers, Smith is a well-known local figure. He recently presented the prize to the winner of the ladies’ race at a Royal Artillery point-to-point at Larkhill.
Pelham is doing security work for governments in the Middle East and Africa.
Additional reporting: Brian Johnson-Thomas

Thought it was an ex DAS DC10 in the hanger awaiting engines before being returned to the US.

Or have Avient bought it from Boeing ???

DAS are trying a number of measures to stay in the air since their grounding, some planes returning to owner in US, and other distributed to other operators on a "pay as you go" basis in the hope of floating.

If you fly secondary routes, at secondary rates, and then still mixing with the likes of Avient, your fate is inevitable.

Avient "proudly profess" to owning all these planes while they merely hold exclusive usage agreement with the owners.

Who knows where Avient's AOC is based ? - bet its Zimbabwean. After the allegations of Avients collusion with, and services to the Zimbabwean Government during the war in the DR Congo, should the European Union not question this company's existance, how it came about, or perhaps which Zimbabwean Air Marshals and Ministers hold a stake in the company. Other neighbouring countries were scrutinised and judged on such issues and it would only be fair for the rest to be done, likewise.

Impossible that Mugabe chased all whitey's off their farms and out of the country, while these mercenaries were for their trouble rewarded with an Air Services License and AOC. Stories in the industry also circulating about the origin of their IL-76 that flies in Africa. Worst of all, that this company who played such an instrumental role to support the Zimbabwe Air Force in the DRC conflict, - today use this dubious and very aged IL-76 to fly support missions for the South African National Defence Force peace keeping operations in Africa - even to areas of the DRC where Avient was earlier alleged to be colluding with Forces bombing those areas and the population.

Perhaps a fellow Russian aviator or somebody with access to the IL Design Buro can check out the original "African" purchaser of this Z registered IL-76, and determine when last it saw the inside of the Design Buro for an official fuselage "life extension".

The last Avient / DC-10 -rumour- I heard was that they were trying to get out of the deal for the 3rd ac, apparently now that DAS is able to operate in Europe again A.S. is worried about the competition :D
AAL, The IL-76 seems to have come from 'Airlink Zimbabwe'
I'm surprised that 'finnman' and 'goma' havn't been along to defend their leader.....:confused: Oh, hang-on, 'finnman' was their Ops Manager....... Given the first post in this thread I wonder if there's a bit of a story there!!
Cheers!!
AAO

Rumour is that they may try to change registration to Lithuania :rolleyes:

Hi AfgAirOps, dont think they'll find it difficult to get out of the third aircraft deal because like all their others just mere measures and arrangements for convenience. Hear DAS is also getting more busy again on other routes and flying ME to Africa so presume for time being at least they will need the aircraft.

If rumour is anything to go by it will indeed be very interesting to trace the origin, purchaser, and delivery process of the IL-76 - and to learn, apart from LK, who the other local Zimbabwean shareholders in Avient are - equally to see the official Design Buro - fuselage life extension of this 1970's (one of the very first produced) IL-76.

Know of people standing accused in The Hague for less, or otherwise hounded out of business.

Who is protecting this crowd - and why?

Regret to have continued the Avient saga on this thread as I see after my own forum search that there has been extensive discussion about Avient in the past. Perhaps the mods can consider, merge and bring back to life as one again.

The earlier posts and discussions however just seemed to have gone nowhere with some critical and probing questions left unanswered.

AfgAirOps eludes that Avient's IL-76 was previously owned by Zim Express. Rumour is rather that it was acquired by Zimbabwe Air Force and after it had served its use for the ZDF upon their withdrawal from the DRC, placed at the disposal of its current operators (Avient) in a mutually beneficial financial relationship by some very senior officers in the ZAF.

It's purchase may indeed even have been part of the package of services which Mr Andy Smith so flippantly refers to as having been provided to another country (outside Britain) and therefore is nobody else's business. Wonder if he would care to ask his buddies in Zimbabwe why they didnt have the same flippant oppinion about Mr Simon Mann's business.

Referring also to the IL's annual official life prolongations for ageing Russian aircraft, it would appear if the Zimbabwe CAA merely issue an annual C of A renewal for the aircraft without consideration of a Design Buro prolongation certficate.

It would not surpise to see these guy's jumping for other registrations because you cant fool all of the people all of the time. And if there is wonder about why the French never took steps against Avient, probably because the French were begging for traffick into Vatry, and Andy Smith's sister is married to the Airport Manager at Vatry.

Thanks for the advice chaps.

I was offered an interview last week but declined.

I think life is too short to work for people like that:=

Where did you see the job advertised ?

Intrview declined. Thanks guys.

The job was advertised in Flight magazine.

Z-ALT
 

Z-ALT is the new Avient machine, formerly 5X-ROY of DAS. It is a Boeing machine and Avient are taking the lease over from DAS who handed the airplane back when their earlier troubles began.

Has the DC10 left Mse yet ??

No. Possibly next week.

It seems to me that people are only to keen to express their opinions on rumours again and again(numerous previous threads). Surely your comments of others being tried in the Hague for less proves that if the authorities thought it were true enough then they would follow this through!
Seems Avient are only up for being tried by those who do not know the facts and have nothing better to do with their time!
You believe everything you read in the papers???

Well said Serenity!

Sorry to dissapoint you, gentlemen. Sometimes we dont believe everything we read in the newspapers.

However - sometimes we were closely involved with such unscrupulous operators and have first hand experience of all the nonsense they have been up to and involved with. Sometimes we wonder how it is possible that their activities are just washed and paged over - leading only to uncomfortable suppositions and explanaitions for the reasons why the British authorities have not taken steps in this matter. Even these suppositions cannot justify their hypocracy and selective morality.

There are and were enough other people around in the DRC and Zimbabwe who observed and know the facts. Dont call their bluff - you may just lose.

Suppose you will also suggest or are oblivious to the facts that this company is/were old bedfellows to some of the most nototious and now banned nefarious operators in the world.

EK-Avient codeshare
 

Well done !! just don't let the United Arabian DC8 that Avient are marketing do that route as it has a habit of driving down into storm ditches in that part of the world.................:rolleyes:;):ok:

Quote:
Das Air DC10 Departed for JKT today now operated by Aviant
Almost............sprung a pinhole fuel leak on pushback. Spares ordered, try again tomorrow :hmm:

If it was 5X-JOE it is one of the oldest DC-10's ever manufactured. This is just one of the manifestations of "old age" , and the very primary reason why DAS picked up their EU ban in the first place.

Trust Avient to have picked up this scrap thinking they are going to make it fly reliably on sustainable and commercialy exploitable basis.

Avient fly "very old heavymetal", not capable of sustainable reliable operations. Get them to inform the average age of their wrecks or do some research and see that their IL-76 is one of the very first IL Design Buro manufactured IL's, long beyong official Design Buro prolongation.

But then again, everything that looks European is overseen and automaticly viewed respectable. Let a true/real African operation try and fly this/such real rubbish into Europe and see how far they get.

One set of rules for the rest of the world, and another for "us". :=

AAL, why don't you get off your high horse and stop moaning. If you think you can start up and run an African airline,put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise let people who know what they are doing get on with the job of running a successful expanding airline, many of whose employees are African and happy to work for Avient.

Dear Headfanwr, thats exactly the problem. Unfortunately not so simple as you suggest. First you see - you guy's like this Brit ferry bombs, crew and aircraft in here, bomb the !!!! out of our wives and children, and then with his spoils from this war has the audacity to start up an airline with old wrecks and thinks he must come now just for deserts and take our air cargo and money.

We have air companies and do the same. We try and get into Europe but are blocked by your industry protectionis schemes. We also have our own air companies but try as hard as you can, on an even footing flying such crap, we can not get clearances into your high and mighty continent. It is therefore not fair that scroundrels such as these get away with it - and if it has anything to do with us - we will make sure he faces here what we have to in Europe.

I Suppose you work for Mr Andy Smith, and if you are one of those pale skinned Africans who has already done the chicken-run, no wonder you are prepared to stand up for his nonsense and the hypocracy of the Europeans!

We have not quite yet progressed to all the gory details and facts but I am sure in this debate we will get to the bottom of some. First hang yourself - keep telling us what a saint this getleman actualy is and about the tons of good he has done for Africa, and as an aftertghout, include a paragraph about his warm relationship with the Zimbabwean government and who their business partners in Zimbabwe is, at a time when the rest of the world thinks they are polecatts.

Please dont stop now - sure that there is much more and many you can enlighten us on. You also dont say what the YOM of 5X-ROY, now Gana Reg is. Please enlightem us! :D

AAL,

5X-ROY/Z-ALT newly acquired by Avient first flew 23/10/1979
5X-JOE still flying for DAS Air first flew 09/07/1973

What point were you hoping to make?

For a start such older planes of African operators are not allowed into Europe anymore.

How is possible when there is a British - European connection that these are. Same with African International, and MK. Is it perhaps again a dicriminatory thing? Also bear in mind that DAS picked up these very problems because of the vintage aircraft they were flying. Does Avient intend to ressurect them and what makes them any better now.

What is the YOM of the Zimbabwean registered IL-76, as far as I know they can be prolonged by the IL Design Buro for maximim 25 years.

Twitcher are you related to Scratcher?

The likes of DAS, MK and African International fly freely in Europe despite their age as they are maintained in the UK by EASA approved maintenance facilities.
Other 5X,9G and ZS aircraft maintained out of Europe are not so fortunate.

Does that mean that Europe does better maintenance on ageing aircraft. Common Twitcher - thats the double standards I am talkng about. Avients planes are museum pieces, their brothers and sisters have long ago been put to pasture.

You are obviously close to this bunch and it is expected and commendable that you stand up for them.

As for the rest of the point, surf the web and see the extent of Mr Smith's collusion with the Kinshasa and Zimbabwean governments during the Congolese Civil War. In the process he aided and abetted the killing and maiming of millions of Congolese woman and children. And this in collusion with one of the most despicable despot regimes in Africa who themselves are equally guilty of oppressing the Zimbabean people. Ask him about his aviation workshops in Bulawayo - and what kind of conversions and maintainance they were doing there in co-opration with the ZAF.

As for another point; other people who did much less wrong are being held accountable before the war crimes court in the Hague. Why is this guy avaoiding accountability - because he is European?

Yes they do and when aircraft companies fail to meet the standard then the European ban is used.

With regards to the age of the DC10 may be you should be reminded that large American companies still operate these aircraft.

AAL, I feel your frustration buddy. But its just the way things work, I dont know what the answer is for African operators. Not sure how the whole banning process works either, I am sure that operators would be given several chances to make the required changes before a ban takes effect. Unfortunately African operators will continue to suffer if they do not meet the standards to operate in the EU. Just a thought, the blame for bad maintainance seems to go to the engineers, I dont think you can say that European engineers maintain aircraft any better than Africans. Its just that they are not given the recources in Africa to do it properly every time, blame the bean counters I say.:ugh:

Dear Engineer, We incidently dont want such old wrecks flying here. You are very presumptious to believe that your maintenance and enginering is better than that in Africa. I can ussure you that there are some in Addis and Johannesburg that will put you to sleep. You are self-centred, self-serving, hypocritical people.

Just for your benefit I will soon post some pictures of an SN-Brussels aircraft that was grounded in an African country not too long ago. Pity you did not impart your first class enginering skills to them.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander; no older African aircraft into Europe - no older European aircraft into Africa. You have more faith in yourselves than we do.

Does that then also mean that you proud Europeans do the maintenance and oversight of Avients IL-76, because the Design Buro surely does not!:=

Hear Ye All Good Men:
 

Say, ...is anybody who may have been closely involved in the "honorable" Avient operation aware of how Avient was till apparently vey recently positioning their IL-76 back southbound, after Baghdad deliveries. The route is a bugger as cargo back southbound is usualy restricted to Khartoum or Eldorette.

Heard a bird sing that their southbound might have included tobacco products that has taken a bad turn and gone very sour. :=

AAL
Is there a shoulder somewhere under that mammoth chip:}

Avient - Myths
 

Gents - BGW return loads are legitimate commercial cargo sometimes by charter down Eastside of Africa or via LOS.

IL76 Nortbound carriers armour plating under a commercial civilian contract.

They have hardly ever been to EDL, but Cargolux, EK and others all have been does this make them less legitimate.? KRT unlikely for anything other than a tech stop as Sudanese carriers not reknown for their open skies approach....

3rd DC10 on its way 12 June and forth planned for October I believe, being a customer have only ever found them quite straightforward in their dealings quite different from our "friends" at DAS or ANA.

Hope this helps..and would be nice to see an independent airline suceed for once, but i guess where AAL is based one could hardly expect him to be open to competition.

Dear Rogerdabootler; seems you are/were involved with sending the IL-76 back soutbound after it dropped of the armoured vehicles in Baghdad.

Specific question is: is/was she carrying tobacco products, where destined for, and were/are all protocols and taxation conventions considered for the destination country.

It is also ironical that nobody has as quickly yet ventured their expert or qualified opinion if this (only T-model) IL-76 is a legally airworthy aircraft, maintained and officialy prolongated by the IL Design Buro, notwithstanding exceding its hull-lifelimit, which has expired. Or about who Avient's sleeping partners in Zimbabwe are.

Its also amazing that the European Union are prepared to accept the Regulatory Oversight of the Zimbabwean CAA where the DC-10's (actualy very old) are now registered, in a clearly dysfunctional country where $10 can buy anything.

We all know that nothing works in Zimbabwe anymore, and that for a few cents any papers for anything can be obtained. The Zim authorities were/are even prepared to register, regulate and oversee Chinese Xian's which are by now apparently not even flying anymore.

Now explain, why flying for DAS, under Ugandan and Ghanian oversight, the DC-10's were not good enough and banned by Europe, but simply re-registered in Zimbabwe on a dubious operators name with dubious characters as sleeping partners, what make sthem any better and lesser risk for the safety of european skies?

An intensive investigation by the UN should be conducted into Avient's associations and partnerships in Zimbabwe to expose their involvement with persons who are otherwise banned from such activities and using this relationship and partnership to circumvent international ban's in collusion with with these known unscrupulous British people.

Please tell us about the IL-76 southbound tobacco products comrade!

AAL - Not involved just aware of what is going on.....as I am regular customer. No Tobacco that I am aware of just all the usual general cargo to LOS and beyond - kitchen sink to textiles etc. You even have to sign a waiver against contraband if you want to send material to LOS with them and provide a form M number for currency exchange in Nigeria....So once again nothing untoward there then.

The Iraq flying is also nothing special now adays everyone is up and down to 12+ airports in Iraq, many on a scheduled basis, we use a whole bunch of people for our business.

I have basic information on what i understand to be their Main/Eng programme and indeed they are beyond that of their regulator and they are busy with their IOSA programme as we speak.

As far as DAS in concerned, have used them many many times and despite what people may say, they appear here in the M/E on a charter basis only, have other people paying their DOC - Direct Operating Costs as no one will give them credit and just found out the aircraft is also due for a C check pretty soon...so I wont be transferring our business to them, as i consider them a risk....Hope this helps

I thought that textiles are on a list of prohibited items for import into Nigeria ??