Stanstead Screening Nazis
 

Do the liquid limitations at this airport apply to operating crews. I was told by my handler that he would pick me up at the Enterprise building near the terminal. As I approached the screening area, it was like a pack of wolfs on me. These guys don't get much bussiness and were bored. A screener with grubby little hands and no gloves started digging through my toiletry items pulling out lip balm, and small liquid items and digging through my bags for 20 miniutes. Then he was sniffing the bag with his machine over and over.
Finally a supervisor was called, and he conviced me to say my roller board bag would be in the "hold" of the aircraft. I was not treated like a 747 Captain. I was treated like a terrorist suspect. My FO had a bag with large cans of shaving cream that was never opened. What kind of idiots are these people? Is this liquid limitation for pilots true at all UK airports? Help:uhoh:

You ARE a Very dangerous fellow.
 

It appears security got it right with you.
Lip balm…..very suspicious. What kind of Captain uses Lip Balm?.
You probably had ALL kinds of contraband. Over 3oz liquid deodorant. Sure it's solid, you say. But what happens when it gets heated?. Liquid!. Banned, confiscated, and the world is a safer place.
It appears your FO know how to "tow" the line. Take his lead next time.

In all seriousness, I had the same thing happen the other day. My "plastic" baggie was WAY too filled. As a matter of fact, that and my WHOLE flight bag were relegated to the lower hold due to all kinds of dangerous stuff.
:-)

Same out of Manston. I walked through the metal detector with my cheaters on. Didn't set it off….but…..they had to ( my cheaters now ) be put through the X-ray machine. Seriously. Glad the button on my pants was small enough.

By the way…welcome to the rumor mill.

Don't worry Flyray.

I have contacted my friends at Stansted and they promise not to search your possesions next time but will be waiting for you with some vaseline and a pair of rubber gloves.:ok:

"What kind of idiots are these people" these are the kind of idiots that keep us safe from the perils of terrorism, god help us all.

A word of advice for next time, bring your lunch box in a frozen state. It gives you the benefit of doubt whether the sauce qualifies as liquid or not :D

It did indeed happen at STN, a flying colleauge was robbed off his lasagne for busting the 100 ml rule :ugh:

I have been through Stansted as crew and pax and it is thoroughly unpleasant. My other half found out first hand why I hate going through there on a recent holiday to Spain. She had already booked it before I got a word in. It isn't the operatives' fault. It is the government minister's fault that they behave as they do. He is not going to back off the drama in case somebody gets through with a container of water and it makes the press. What I find intriguing though is the cavalier way that the confiscated items are treated. Now this stuff is either completely safe or it is suspect. So why is it carelessly thrown into a big bin if it is suspect? I wouldn't have thought this was an approved way of handling potential explosives.
With the above exception, I've always taken the Eurostar to Paris, Amsterdam and recently, Frankfurt to fly long haul. It is all over a lot cheaper than the UK's airports and the war on terror is at least polite.

Im sure its the Ryanair influence on the whole of stansted. Lowering the tone of everything. tonnes of little hilters. Grin and bare it Im afraid.

Farce
 

While not wanting to get into a discussion about the merits ( or lack of) of UK security screening because the way it is done is variable however, STN, BHX & MAN seem to have a talent for unpleasant, aggressive and stupid behavior. They don't have exclusivity with these attributes but are the market leaders in obnoxious behavior.

Or just get over yourselves and stick to the rules, and you won't have any problems :rolleyes:

750XL
 

I wish it were that simple, the UK regulations are very prescriptive but in my experience the airports I mentioned above seem to invent there own rules.

We had problems at STN, having contacted the head of security to clarify the situation and him attaching a copy of the rules to the desk at the screening point but the same problem reoccurred on an almost daily basis. Even when we pointed to the rules the attached to the desk at the security point the screeners seemed unwilling or unable to read and understand the rules.

In my view it is not the rules that need changing but the culture if aggressive behavior of the screening staff.

To say that if you stay within the rules is simply fails to understand the situation.

The typically unpleasant, half-witted moron who works for airport 'security' in the UK and the protocols they their like follow, demonstrate an obscure attitude towards our safety. They treat all who would question their efforts, as well as those who don't, with rudeness and contempt and add ZERO to our national security. Until the rules they are meant to follow change, expect to be badly treated whenever you pass them by. Personally I don't speak with them and will never help them, ever. They don't deserve any they are only behaving like some other guards "who were only following orders."

And no, liquid are not permitted to be carried by flight crew boarding in the UK. You might do something atrocious with it; like pour it over the explosives, ammunition, detonators, NBC material etc, that are carried in freighters. Or worse. And then, there's the huge, great, gaping hole in UK security...

The solution? There is none. I'm afraid that in the UK in some areas we are beyond redemption. Only by removing an entire generation of bungling bureaucrats and town council type clowns will we stand a chance of reforming our country. Our current security procedures are an example of the rot that has set in.

PM

Pitdown
 

You are indeed correct about the sorce of the problem but not the intended result.

UK airport security has been 100% successful in its intended result! it has protected the (self perceived) political elite from the media, it has enabled them to be seen to be acting robustly on terrorism while also having the side effect of keeping an army of low pay workers in employment...... The real bonus is that it is the airline industry that is paying to shield them from the problem.

The root of the problem is that we no longer have any political leaders who have any experience outside the Westminster bubble and are unable to see any anything in terms outside this bubble. I can see no way that we can solve this problem without a major political unheaval.......... May be UKIP will provide this in May, but I won't be holding my breath.

I can easily followed all thoughts.

My company often pass through two airports in the UK.

BFS screening near the Cargo ramp is friendly and always helpful , they have a really nice attitude towards the flying personel regarding everything also liquids.:D

EDI screening on the cargo side of the airport is real screening N.... , they interprete the rules on their own, unfriendly and really really bad behaviour, my company has approached them but with no difference in attitude.
Furthermore the liquid rules are fully enforced towards crew or should I say especially towards crew, most of us feel harrashed.:mad::ugh::ugh::mad:

I remember EMA screening on the cargo ramp to be pretty bad also.

Are the rules not the same all over the UK and why are some airports allowed to interprete rules on their own, at least BFS has a history so they should maybe be the worst but they are not.

Regards,
A happy cargo pilot

Unfortunately for the airlines, we, the Pax, do have a choice.

My first- ever (2007) (yes! at my age!) foreign flight to Limoges was turned into an endurance test,by this cretinous "security" charade.
I haven't flown commercially since and I'm not alone.

Maybe the airlines will wake up before it's too late. Make it more inconvenient to use their service, and guess what?....the less-inconvenient service gets the business and the profits.
Backsides need to be kicked and a realistic screening protocol enforced by a fit-for-purpose regime.
Until then, these arrogant, self-important,bullying numpties will continue to undermine the commercial enterprise that feeds them.

Air transport is a convenience, not a necessity and those in power would do well to remember that.

When they take the drivers bottle of water out of the cab of his tanker with 3000 odd litres of Jet A behind him, as they have, it makes you wonder.

I was strip searched at Luton one day when the metal clip on my trousers set of a little beep on the hand held metal detector. Yet I can go through screening in the US set of the walk through metal detector and all they want to see is your ankles. Haven't been through Stanstead, but Heathrow are similar, it is just a horrible experience to go through before you start your days work. One day you can go through without any hassles and the next its the spanish inquisition.

Know of an aeromedical team who were at a different airport threatened with the confiscation of their bags of intravenous fluids, they were told if anything happened to the patient they and their managers would be having a chat to the Coroner. Soon backed off, did not see all the needles scalpels, controlled drugs and had no idea what they were looking for in terms of the equipment.

Some of these security people failed the intelligence and social skills test for the wheel clamp unit and ended up at the airport.

Another brilliant one, also from STN. Reporting for duty a colleague with an airside ID from a different airport was initially refused passage. This airport's ID had recently been redesigned and now they couldn't recognize it anymore. Their little binder of acceptable ID cards had not been updated. 45 min later I met the guy airside, not sure how he convinced GESTAPO.

Trying to understand the insanity
 

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I see I am not the only one who has been sodomized by UK security. From your responses, I understand that the liquid limitations do NOT apply to pilots, but that individual units can just interpret the rules anyway they see fit. Is this true? If so, how can there be no standardization?

By the way, I will have my lip balm handy next time to apply to my anus when I have to face these idiots again.

Without any reference I was under the impression all European states have waived the 100 ml restriction for pilots except UK. Perhaps some smaller units see through the fingers, someone hinted BFS had a relaxed attitude?

Meanwhile, you are sitting at the controls with a crash axe in the cockpit. Did the moron's name tag say "Obtuse"?

Glad I'm retired from the airline goat rope.

I do not miss STN!
 

I see nothing has changed at STN! When all this started after 9/11 we regularly went through STN and they had some pretty moronic security then. Worst one was when a colleague had a packet of cup a soup taken off him. He protested that it was not a liquid or gel only to have the smug response that when it had hot water added (200ml) it would be a liquid and over the proscribed limit!

Flyray
 

Just to let you know that you are entitled to ask the person who is searching your belongings to wear a clean pair of disposable plastic gloves; if they ask why, tell that that for reasons of hygiene for your belongings you insist as they may have been in contact with germs or alike from other searches, and that you do not know what they may be 'carrying.' Also point out that you may have something contagious (!) that they may not wish to contract.

You are entitled by law to ask for this.

Good luck.

Hi Flyray, as a European freight dog I understand that all uk airports enforce the 100ml rule for pilots at present, however for the rest of Europe it doesn't matter, as you pointed out though the security guys at STN normally demand that your bag travels in the hold, if you can't get access to catering or bottled water airside there's normally a water fountain at the search area.

Sad as it sounds, don't blame the worker ant security guy, he gets his ass busted for not following the "rules" , just as you as a pilot are expected to follow SOPs/ air law unless there is an exceptional circumstance.

As an Engineer, we have the same problems of being refused to carry through a bottle of water, but happily take gallons of hydraulic fluids, engine oils through etc :ugh::rolleyes:.. Justifying your tools is always good fun as well, and I have watched a colleague have his spanners x-rayed, although what they expected to find inside spanners was beyond me!

The best way to deal with it is to make sure you are within the rules, and don't give the security guys a hard time, as they are only doing the job they are asked to do, no matter how daft you or I think the rules are, and most of the time they agree with you.

Still a PITA though :ugh:

Hinted that BFS had a relaxed attitude? Either they had a one off or they were having you for one. I have recently not been allowed to take my flight bag through security because the staff have deemed it "too big" for hand luggage and it had to be carted around through over-sized baggage in the main terminal by Servisair. On asking about it I was told the rule used to be that anything that didn't fit through the xray scanner had to go but it was now changed but noone could tell me what to. It amazes me that security personel seem to have greater knowledge over where the bags are going than the crew, especially when it is the crews' bags.

And forget about taking liquids through unless they're <100ml in the transparent plastic bag.

I watched 120 soldiers having to put their hand carry items through an x-ray machine in Canada. What were they carrying? L85 5.56mm assault rifles and bayonets!

I fly in Asia where the rules are adapted for the circumstances and the liquid rule is exempt for pilots at all our airports. But travelling through LHR T3 recently as a pax, I observed appalling behaviour from a security screener. An elderly passenger of middle eastern appearance in western dress was confused as to the exact procedure and was asking the security man what to do. The screener ignored the passenger. After several times asking, the passenger assumed the screener was deaf and tapped him on the shoulder and which point the idiot turned around and shouted that he was not to be touched and if it happened again, the passenger would be arrested. The poor passenger looked visibly shaken, I explained what I considered to be the procedure while the idiot stood there continuing to stare blankly at the wall. I considered raising the point at the time but realising the idiot had far more powers that his intellect could cope with, I said nothing.

As expected, myself and the poor other passenger got special treatment, myself being asked some very leading (and rather stupid) questions. The poor old guy was shaking at the end of it, I felt I had to apologise for my country. As we were in the ''by invitation line'' we were both travelling on premium tickets, in my case the Airport Passenger Duty was GBP188. Is that what we're paying for?

I made a note of all the details and addressed them to a security manager at LHR from my work e-mail so he could see I was employed in the industry. I haven't had a reply.

Sometime ago whilst passing through enterprise security cargo crew were ahead of me. One of them forgot to take his iPad out of a soft leather crew bag. He was told to remove it and that they would like to search his bag to which he agreed. The bag was lifted off the table by a single female member of security and placed on the floor on her side. The iPad was declared safe and when the capt asked about his bag was told that she had to wait on another member of staff to help her lift it back up onto the table due to health and safety. So there we were all waiting until another member of security turned up to assist in lifting the bag. They took a strap each lowered down with straight backs and lifted it back onto the table. It was like a demonstration on how to lift objects correctly according to the H&S manual. I looked at the staff member who had swiped my ID card and they just looked completely embarrassed to be associated with this person.

I watched 120 soldiers having to put their hand carry items through an x-ray machine in Canada. What were they carrying? L85 5.56mm assault rifles and bayonets!

Dan - Thats got to be the best way for a person that has had no training on the weapon system to a make sure there are no live rounds in the chamber or magazine and so the rifle is safe to fly!

Makes sence to me..

Not all screener's are a*holes but the job tend to attract people that just can't handle the power they're given. And The UK policing mentally is not helping matters.
In MAN I was told that my bag was too big for the x-ray machine. I said, it will fit just fine. It's too big for the trays, was their response then. Me.. WTF :confused: Took me almost an hour to get through, and I lost the Body Shop winter collection for my partner.. but that was of course my fault :rolleyes:

Security matters/manners
 

I would just like to reply to A&C post of 13/03 regarding security at BHX.

I only go through there as a pax these days (once/twice a month normally) so no idea how they now treat the crews.

From a passenger point of view they all seem to have been to charm school and I get treated to a customer service attitude that most banks would die for. This I may add is in sharp contrast to my previous experiences back about 2 years when the instructions to strip were given by (apparently) ex sergeant majors.

The only time this charm slips is when dealing with a lot of the bucket & spade brigade who are(usually) either inebriated, illiterate or too ignorant to understand that <remove coat and belt> applies to them.

Just thought I'd stick up for the few amongst the many who do their job with some semblance of humanity while maintaining what passes for security at British airports

Its not uncommon to hide a round in an assualt rifle. This is done in case the person has a ND and when they do an ammunition check and everyone one has the issued amount they can`t find the guilty bastard.

Obviously you have not noticed the Nazis in the TSA? Maybe they all go to the same charm school?

They probably do but most of us go through the known crew member program in the US, and don't have to deal with multiple brown shirts.
KCM is something that the UK authorities would never allow because it is such a nanny state.

They are dense. Once had a half full 150ml bottle of CK1 confiscated as it was over 100mls. Who employs these idiots?

Bird control guy dispatched to shoot rooks. He had to pass from airside across a road back in to airside. He was spotted being frisked. In one hand he was holding a box of shells and in the other a shotgun. BFS.

The guys there were (with very very few exceptions) pleasant and efficient.(I passed through there every six days out of ten for 28 years ).
They realise that they MUST follow the asinine rules. It is instant dismissal if they don't. The interpretation of the rules starts with the head of security and her rules will be adhered to.(resistance is futile) .

I have every sympathy with the crap they have to administer.

Glad I pulled the black and yellow handle and retired.

I went through the UK security a couple of years back at a big Midlands airport. The people there are doing an important job, but to be honest are not the nicest bunch, especially when they frisk the same crew day in day out year after year.

Anyway the guy in front was an engineer or cargo loader. Seemed to be a fitness fanatic and had obviously cycled in judging by his lycra gear and back pack. Anyway he was absolutely dripping with sweat and set off the arch alarms, had to be frisked!!! I was laughing so much at the face of the stasi security guy....

Liverpool once stopped me for a random search. Only last year. Upon finding two passports in my bag decided to 'detain' me. The fact they were both in my name didn't seem to convince them it was legit. As I got more irate I informed them they were making it up as they went along and the contents of passengers document wallets was none of their business. Any moment now they'll realise how ridiculous this is I thought to myself. Nope. I actually called the police to have them charged as they weren't getting anywhere. And even then they had to check with the Border agency that some occupations are entitled to two passports.

I don't find manchester too bad. But low cost cancer has ruined lpl. Both in arrivals and departures. Haven't paxed through there since and never will.