Free At Last: Spoken like someone who has never had the pleasure of having a PFE in his cockpit. A good PFE is worth his weight in gold.

Ben, There done That!
 

Many thousands of hours as an FE, also Paid for my own training, at a prevailing rate of $1.50 an hour in local wages. Getting this job is not easy. But costing a company Millions of dollars is not so cool!:):)

The company spent well over a million dollars defending themselves in an arbitration they ultimately lost. Had they offered their empolyees something more substantial than summary termination and negotiated a resolution to this issue they wouldn't be in the situation they find themselves in today. They refused to honor a collective bargaining agreement, made no attempt to come to a resolution and then paid a fortune to high priced lawyers instead of seeking a resolution. This doesn't bode well for those who are party to their next CBA.

To be fair the slave master that caused this (JC) through arrogant disregard of the Polar contract is gone. Good luck to the Polar FE`s.

Good Luck
 

:) Wishing all the best to everyone involved.:)

Thats very True Jim B.(L-38) Didn't you cash your check already !

flite idol
Just because J.C.'s name is no longer listed as an official of AAWW doesn't mean he is gone. I understand the phone lines between Purchase and Houston are being kept very busy.

You may think it is over, but it is surely not. That is why the FE's have retain a law firm, not only against the company but also against the union. Maybe the IBT should have consulted with the FE's before playing footsie with the company.

7 months pay when they owe 2 years doesn't sound very fair. Oh well, let the games begin again!

We have heard of the Polar group trying to initiate a DFR against the Teamsters since before the decertification finalized. Verified after the Polar side refused to cough up their accessed funds to their new Teamster representation after decertification of ALPA. The Teamsters side fully expected this and planned for it. Polar leadership threatened it day one after single carrier status was determined by the NMB.

DFR against ALPA was certainly an option for the Atlas group prior to the decertification of ALPA, but we found that it was too costly, lengthy, and uncertain when reviewed thus the opting for decertification. Mostly because even if we won a DFR it would not guarantee continued representation by ALPA of the Atlas crews interests. The Atlas side is still considering suing ALPA for failure on many issues of fair representation to pay for the decertification costs and withheld past representation.

I believe the Polar initiative at a DFR is only riding on the FE issue because it is the only one handy that might work. Not too unlike tossing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks. Most likely just another attempt for your past leadership to grab at power again. Upon initiation of such, I doubt that it will go very far after your initial retained funds are used up. I don't see your fellow employed Polar members voluntarily coughing up their money for your benefit in a DFR.

DFR = Duty of Fair Representation

Get a Life!
 

BELOWMINS

"Just because J.C.'s name is no longer listed as an official of AAWW doesn't mean he is gone. I understand the phone lines between Purchase and Houston are being kept very busy".

You are really off the wall with this one, and you have posted some real doosies. You keep smoking that stuff and you will flunk your next piss test.

Or maybe you are working for the phone company now and that is how you have the inside poop on these alleged phone calls.

Give me and the rest of us a break will ya

I do believe that under ALPA the Polar leadership at the time walked away from a (very good) deal for their FE's worth significantly more money (double the current).

Sadly, the last "best" offer from the company is 6 months (I think, perhaps, maybe) that was increased from the 2nd offer of only 3 months which was tendered to Polar under the watch of ALPA. Then, after they walked away from the first offer IBT was able to double it, Since IBT was not in a position to represent Polar at the time of the first deal and a DFR against ALPA is beyond the time limit they are SOL in respect to any DFR.

The Previous leadership under ALPA shot the FE's in back, if a DFR is filed (it won't) then much of that will come to light and a few Polar guys had better be running for the hills.

I just can't let this last post go without comment. ALPA did not show an offer to the FE's, in fact our bottom line so to speak was 1 year and the company did not approach that. But that is not the point here. The International Brotherhood of Traitors made an agreement with their cohorts at the company without so much as a telephone call to the FEs. We have one person representing us, Bob Kirchner, who Gleason promised to consult prior to making any agreement and that was not done. That is the point. Now a separate law firm has been secured and they believe we have a very good case. Whether we do or not will only come out after we file the arbitration in Federal Court. If only Gleason and the boys had the courtesy of contacting the FE group this may not have even come to pass. They knew we had the bottom line of 1 year but decided to not rock the boat for Bourne and settled for much less than we asked. That is representation? Not in my book.

It was highly speculated by some, that J /C was fired (first year anniversary next week) so that AAWW management could distance themselves from him and criminal racketeering charges - in that J/C had privately worked with Bourne so as to orchestrate managements desire to change Labor representation from ALPA to the IBT.

Anyone actually know why J/C was fired /let go, or where he is today? J/C had loved his job.

Google James Cato and you will find he has an aviation consulant business. Then take a look at his client list. Three guesses who is on it.
He also tired to get on with Continental. Fortunaltely they were way to smart and said no thanks.

3pointlanding
"Google James Cato and you will find he has an aviation consulant business. Then take a look at his client list. Three guesses who is on it.
He also tired to get on with Continental. Fortunaltely they were way to smart and said no thanks".

So you believe everything you read eh? I have some dry land 50 miles West of MIA I want to sell at a good price. Also a bridge in England if you still have any $$ left.

Sheshh.

FR8 :ugh:

It's his web site, not mine. And when it comes to Cato or Bourne, athough I may not believe it all, with those two, anything is possible.

"3pointlanding
It's his web site, not mine. And when it comes to Cato or Bourne, athough I may not believe it all, with those two, anything is possible".

Actually, If you look into it further, Cato, Bourne, Rick Shuyler, Frank Lorenzo and Frank Borman all have a big stake in Harbenger Holdings as an LLC. Their soul purpose is to screw over the Atlas and Polar crews.

Keep smoking the good stuff, maybe you can make it a 9 point!

:eek:

FR8

So you admit Bourne is out to scres the crew members. And I thought all the while that he was the union savior. Shame on me.

Thanks for your updated J/C info, 3point . . . it all supports that he was indeed pushed out of AAWW. . . ironic in that he thought that he was doing his job so well.

Cato was a consultant before coming to AAWW and was hired as a contractor for the Atlas initial contract negotiations and union busting. Later he became a VP operations because many he had to work with at AAWW told him to kiss off because they don't report to him when he ordered things done when he was just a contractor/consultant.

Cato found himself on the way out when B Flynn was brought in as CEO due to his general character and how things were done in general with the work force. You generally don't come in and fire everyone at one time. Bad business stability and bad for the stock. You'll note a number of VP's etc started leaving over the next year after Flynn's appointment but didn't notice due to their lower impact on our day to day stuff. Cato was pretty well entrenched due to the convoluted structure he set up with AACS/AABO, Polar, the ongoing grievances, merger and multitude of self constructed things to help ensure his continued employment to manage it and screw with the labor. Eventually he stepped on his penis one too many times with Flynn by forgetting his position and not keeping his ego in check thinking that he was indispensable. Forced his termination somewhat earlier than expected before they had an immediate replacement installed which is now Carlson. Court still out on him, but his history isn't promising. Few in those positions have rosey labor history.

Cato is still kept on in a consultant/witness basis due to the lack of records at AAWW on ongoing grievances that were initiated by the union during his tenure. So he self did ensure a continued trickle of income for himself and is still getting a check from time to time on what the company can't come up with evidence/info during processing of past grievances caused by Cato.

Of course, the conspiracy theories involving Bourne sound soooo much better and go sooo much further than the facts. Funny how they all seem to have been developed from one side of this Polar/Atlas equation and continue as an easy excuse of the situation. That repeated behavior by one group was probably one of the bigger driving forces of why we went Teamsters by what was a record setting decertification vote.

Nitty
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post.

We at the telephone company appreciate it.

Reply to Nitty
 

"We have heard of the Polar group trying to initiate a DFR against the Teamsters since before the decertification finalized. Verified after the Polar side refused to cough up their accessed funds to their new Teamster representation after decertification of ALPA. The Teamsters side fully expected this and planned for it. Polar leadership threatened it day one after single carrier status was determined by the NMB."

Nitty, I don't know why you think this is a big deal. The accessed funds are in escrow for the purpose they were collected for in the first place. To defend the participants (merger committee) in the merger. Until the combined seniority list is activated that money must stay in escrow. It was never under ALPAs control why should it be under IBTs? Barring any lawsuit about the seniority list it will be refunded to the members who made the payments. As far as a DFR I wouldn't blame the PFEs if they worked on that but they would be better served just working on getting a reasonable settlement from AAWW. The best offer that was given under ALPA was three months salary. That's an insult to the long term employees that made the Polar an airline from the ground up. I don't know what the attorney fees have been so far but they could have probably given them one to two years salary and been ahead of the game. I do agree with your comments about Cato, he basically wore out his welcome. But like any good bureaucrat he made himself somewhat indispensable for at least the short time.

Why do I waste my time?
 

"BELOWMINS
Nitty
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post".

That is not what you alluded to as far as Cato’s involvement. Read Nitty’s post again slowly this time.

Hey, at least the phone company still pays a pension.

What can I say Fr8Dog, your right.
Like Elvis JC has left the building.

Between 3point and L-38's conspiracy theories, I can't figure out which one is funnier. Cato was toast in 2005. But Booby and Boy Wonder screwed that up because they was too stupid to listen to anything but the voices in their heads.

The great conspiracy theory about Bourne makes a LOT of sense. In fact, as much as Prater's rantings that he took the IBT job because Bourne wasn't ALPA ExAdmin. Bourne has over 55,000 that he represents...Prater has ???? and is out of money in the MCF.

Booby and Boy Wonder said it in 2003. Two or three hundred job losses were acceptable if it meant that THEY never wore an Atlas uniform. You got sold out by your own leadership. You had more than one opportunity to do something and you didn't, because you bought into their greed and thought you could take Atlas' airplanes, routes and customers just because you thought they were a birthright.

Your airline was DOA before GE stepped up to underwrite the purchase of the 400's with their engines. You had "Miss Piggy" and a bunch of hanger queens...Booby's own words.

Booby swore to ALPA that AAWW would be "on their knees begging" within 48 hours of your strike. The only one on his knees was Booby, less than 36 hours into the 30 day cooling off...he sold you out then.

The Atlas guys saved your butts by supporting you, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK. Why? Because AAWW was more than willing to let you fade away. It cost them less to have you on strike than to have you flying half empty scheduled flights.

Yep, the whole worlds out to get you. But Dan Katz will save you. Just keep sending him those checks..........

Quote:

---

"Yep, the whole worlds out to get you. But Dan Katz will save you. Just keep sending him those checks"

---

WTF? . . . Send what to who? . . . . Islamy - all past Atlas/ Polar interaction is obvious history - history of which we all have/own our own version. . . . What's somewhat important here is - Can our collective lesson's of the past be defined and applied toward our future?

(By chance, if you were referring to any legal fight between the Polar FE's and AAWW / IBT - D Katz is not involved, as all action by them is independent).

So are the first 3 -8s still going to be leased to a EU carrier? I wonder if there will ever be one in 5y colors...:(

"D-LZ 130
So are the first 3 -8s still going to be leased to a EU carrier? I wonder if there will ever be one in 5y colors".

Where do you guys come up with this stuff??

There are not even any flying yet, and you think that there are leases for the airframes already?

The 6 767's will all be in Atlas colors and they will be here early 2010, way before the -8 ever flys.

Leases? Yes, as that's what they were ordered for, IIRC.

So sad as I really want to see the Atlas logo on them...! Oh well.:{

Think about it..... Atlas Air is an ACMI Carrier. Or, to put it another way, Atlas Air's fleet exists for leasing.

With the exception of very long term leased aircraft, their fleet all carries the Atlas colour scheme.

It stands to reason, therefore, that the new airframes are most likely to carry the 5Y scheme. :ugh:

The B767 in Titan colors is very pretty...I like the green, appeals to the Irish in me! Nice to see so many new paint jobs out there...

Having fun yet?
 

"The B767 in Titan colors is very pretty...I like the green, appeals to the Irish in me! Nice to see so many new paint jobs out there".

Not sure why there are always a couple of D__K heads out there that like to stir up trouble. But after 40 years in this business, I have found that there are always the 10% that always seem to be there.

D-LZ 130, What a putz you are! (Go look it up)

D__K head, huh?

You know, perhaps you are right...I was only commenting on aesthetics, but am deeply sorry if I touched a nerve...these are such trying times, and I should have considered the feelings of some among us who are perhaps sensitive to the implications of the decisions of airline managers, which may or may not have been enabled by certain forces beyond the control of labor. :(













Just kidding. Tool.

Supposedly Bill Flynn announced at an employee meeting that BA wanted to be a launch customer for the -8 via GSS and that the first airplanes would be going to them...

The Senior VP of Flight OPs stated the same in Dec '08-Jan '09 then followed it up with "depending on the economy". With BA collecting A380's do you think they'll need the -8's?
bpp