DHL UK changes
 

DHL UK will "merge" with Air Contractors Ltd.
The Old CEO of ACL will run DHL UK(will become a UK branch of Air Contractors Ireland).
We have not been told or there crews will move over when the 727 will be phased out.
ACL mother company ,SAFAIR has also established closer ties with DHL Europe.
Good news for the People at ACL

Neil

I may be wrong but I suspect it is a way of getting around the FT limitations imposed (quite rightly) by the CAA. ie put them on the Irish register.

So much for JAR-OPS.

I might be wrong but i heard that DHL is consolidating it's airline which means by the end of 2002 all the airbus's operated by ACL which are owned by DHL will be re-registerd to 00 and operated by E.A.T. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Doesnt sound right millAir,
SafAir ACL parent company is buying someof DHL A300 and B727 and then leases them back to DHL.
As far as i understand we are getting more A300 from DHL to operate.
We also start the Air Postal contract soon (first A/C to be reregisteerd in Jan.)


Neil

I see Neil Armstrong used the royal 'we' in his last posting, I always figured you worked for ACL
Neil. On this subject, if the aircraft go on the G-Reg, the crews will not get the 7on and 7off thats apparently very popular at ACL.

Yarpy

The current roster on the Air Contractors A300 is 8 on 6 off, starting on either a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. The 8 days must include a 'legal rest day' which for the purpose of this roster only is a minimum of 24 hours off (and is not the same as a day off which must include 2 local nights). The duty week starts at 0001 on Monday morning. Under IAA regs we can do 12 duty hours on a 3 - sector night, or 11hrs30mins on a 4 - sector night. The maximum allowed on any 8 day period is 65 rostered hours. The company can ask you to operate into a 9th day but this happens only rarely (twice in the last year for me) and is usually used to cope with last minute changes imposed by DHL.
The roster works very well despite a few initial misgivings and the opposition of a few within ACL.
The 727 work pattern is considerably worse, offers no roster stability, and is a good reason why we should ALL try ensure that the 8 and 6 continues. Unfortunately there is a train of thought within ACL that rather than try to improve conditions for everyone, it would be easier to put everyone on a 727-type roster i.e. equal misery for all. Not very enlightened thinking I fear!
Hope this os of use to you.

Neil i think you should go too flightwatch in Brusells and read the bulletons on the noticeboard.Yes ACL have the postal contract in France but all the airbus's that belong to E.A.T that ACL operate will be going back to Belgium by the end of 2002.

Yes Millair ,i just did that.
Your right, but i think some of the A300 might go to DHL Air UK.
Lets see what the next notice will say.

Neil

ANY OF YOU UK GUYS HERE ANY NEWS ABOUT DHL (US) AIRWAYS GETTING SOME OF YOUR 727 OR BUYING ABX?

Sorry, I am not sure I have grasped the thread of this posting. Is DHL Air (UK) to be folded into the ACL Aoc, and the aircraft operated on the Irish reg, because I can't see how they can operate on a UK Aoc and then use Irish FTL.
Regards to all.

S.S.

Reading this thread,it suggests that Safair/Aircontractors are manageing an operation for DHL/Uk at EMA,but surely the crews would need
a 'proper'CAA uk Licence before they could transfer themself to the G-Reg.Do they have these licences or is it going to be new recruitment.

Merry X-mas to all. If this is an Irish operation, what are the requirements concerning licenses? Would they give validations for one year?
Good luck to all, Regards

[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: alapt ]</p>

OK, it's time for a reality check.
ONE: DHL Air is fully owned by DHL. DHL Air has a UK Air Ops Certificate with all the implications of UK FTL, etc. Twenty three 757s are planned to be operated, all on the DHL Air fleet, on the UK register. Current plans envisage six in operation by end March 2002. The first (CATIII and MNPS approved) 757 renders good service. The second is in the paint shop at Southend, having been delivered there from TLV two weeks ago. All management and technical positions within DHL Air are currently filled. However, more will become available as the airline expands. All, repeat ALL, pilot applicants will be required to have the appropriate UK CAA/JAA licences and will be required to undertake and pass the selection procedure. As always, a 757 type rating would be advantageous.
TWO: SAFAIR, the parent company of ACL is involved in a deal which will lead to the transfer of the A300s to EAT in Brussels. Crews currently on the A300 will have the opportunity to transfer to EAT, in Brussels, on EAT terms and conditions.
THREE: The 727 fleet will gradually be phased out. This will leave ACL operating the Aeropostal contract with five or less aircraft.
FOUR: Mr. Hugh Flynn is replacing Mr. Trevor Jones as Managing Director of DHL Air. Mr. Jones is returning to his position within DHL.
FIVE: That's it. Do we all get the picture now?

& SIX : ACL/Safair are to BUY the complete package of EAT's A300's & the 75's & lease them back to DHL-BRU / DHL-UK. Only 2 x 72's will be kept from ACL's 72 fleet & at present ACL owen 2 x A300's DHL & SAF - they will also be leased to DHL. As for the rest Aero Postal will be operated by their own a/c, completely managed by ACL. 2 x C130's are heading for the 'EI' reg the rest, heavens knows (wait for the next announcement). & Finally:
Seven: Most of ACL's UK Management which are based in 'EI' are heading to EMA to run ACL-UK (sorry) DHL-UK,
Who's gonna add Eight ?

Eight.
Suggest to the "tourists" heading to EMA from "EI" that they should have with them a return ticket.

GALHI has it about right. The A300s currently owned by EAT will transfer to the OO reg. & the 2 ACL owned units will be dry leased to EAT. The Aeropostal contract will be a dry lease/management contract on Aeropostal owned aircraft. The B727s will be phased out of the DHL network but some (2?) will remain & be operated ad hoc on the EI reg. & the ACL AOC will remain. DHL Air will remain a G- reg. operator and, as far as I know, will not operate either B727s or A300s. There is some confusion as to exactly what where & how regarding ACL & DHL Air, not helped by conflicting memos issued by each side, however the obvious rationalisation of the control & management of the DHL fleet can only increase the effectiveness & guarantee jobs for the ACL guys.

I'm sure that those higher up the food chain know exactly what's happening & we minions will find out in due time. It will be an interesting year but it has in my humble opinion, started on the right note.

Assumptions:
1) ACL is history and Key managers are bailing out
2) A300 future is limited and the key managers know this
3) Nepotism will be the criteria for transfer of the few from ACL to EMA
4) We're all doomed I tell ya!

Myrddin,

I do hope that was tounge in cheek, either that or you have a selective reading problem. The deal ensures that ACL retains it's AOC in Ireland and continues to operate, there are jobs available & nobody looses out. Keep the faith!

This is all very interesting, but you mention some Lockheed L382's how are they going to be operated on a british AOC when there none on the register and no one with CAA type rates <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Ramp....The question we need to ask ourselves is, is the IAOC of any use? Look at the facts carefully, the 727's are soon to accumulate sand in the desert and the A300's are worth more than cans than they are as aircraft. Most of the comments on this forum simply don't add up..serendipity springs to mind as does the feathering of nests for some. Post christmas is the tradional time for management to hand out dissappointments. I'm preparing, are you? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Many years ago I was given a piece of advice by my Navigator (Ex WW2 Wellingtons)
"Co. Be a good bar listener not a good bar talker"
I pass this on only to stop this pure BE

myrddin, OK, I'll rise to the bait! My understanding is that not all the B727s will accumulate dust as soon as originally planned & 1 or 2 will remain on the IAOC for ad hoc work. Add the Hercs & the management contract for the Aeropostal A300s & I reckon the IAOC will be reasonably well used. As for your comments regarding the A300s, I guess you're a Boeing fan 'cos the Busses will soldier on with the likes of DHL for quite a few years yet.

The more I look at it, the more it seems that the management of both companies are trying their best to ensure a viable future for everybody involved. Makes a change these days! Then again, I'm a cynical optimist(?).

Ramp, there's no need to rise to any bait, there's nothing fishy about my concerns. Can you tell which part of the planet are B727 able to fly with any commercial viability and where we ourselves would want to be with them? Also what makes you think that the volume that the A300 has on offer is desirable to DHL given its current ratio of wide body to narrow body and its future plans to acquire 34 narrow body aircraft with an option on another 10? Is an ageing wide bodied aircraft with an over populated flight deck with the ability to carry 30 tonnes short haul but not medium haul, really going to fit in with DHL's near term plans? I wonder! I don't wish to sound like the harbinger of gloom, should I/we be looking else where? Will this posting be the catylst that sparks a deluge of facts. Your not old you were just born too early, so given your extra experience; whats going on? Who d'ya Know?

I suppose it all depends on your opinion, which to me seems a little blinkered. The A300 offers 45 tonnes short haul and Channel used there aircraft on the route from Germany to Sharjah.Is that no medium enough?

Ivan....are you talking about the same type of A300? By the way it's their not there

Ivan is right though, the Airbus A300B4 does have the range to fly from Northern Europe to the Middle East with a full payload (45000KG).Tel Aviv can be easily reached, and even Dubai is possible, but not always ! You need some help from mother nature, and you need to have an enroute alternate, since you will most definetely be low on fuel once you get there.

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: Sir_Fly-a-Lot ]</p>

myrddin, it looks like you've got part of the answer already from Ivan & SFAL. The A300B4 will uplift 45 tons on the short-medium routes with plenty of volume. It's ideal for the main hub to hub & other high volume routes & DHL, among others, have no plans to replace them in the short to medium term, there's at least 5 - 8 more years in them yet. There is no viable replacement available in the weight/price range right now & if they're that bad, why would UPS order 60 new build -600s & FedEx is buying up A300s & A310s for conversion? OK, so the B4 is old but the ecomomics of the operation have to be weighed against the low purchase price right now bringing the hourly cost of operation, especially the ton/kilometer rate down to acceptable levels. As a pure cargo aircraft they do leave something to be desired but it's 'horses for courses' & right now the A300-B4 is the right steed for the integrators.

The 34 B757s will replace the B727s on night operations as it is night bans that are killing the 72 in integrator service. The whole idea is to leave as late as possible, hub during the night & arrive back at destination as early as possible, thus putting them in the middle of the most sensitive period. There are, however, still airports in Europe that will accept them during the day which will allow ad hoc operations plus the rest of the world, Africa, Middle East, Far East & even the USA, which are nowhere near as restrictive. The 72 is not dead yet just, like me, getting old & can't stand the late nights anymore.

To get back to the main point of the thread, the changes that are taking place have got to be preferable to any of the alternatives. I'm not pretending to be that far up the food chain that I have all the answers but I've got enough 'gen' to make a reasoned guess at what's going on & feel that, with all the gloom & doom thats being spread in other parts of these forums, this still looks like a light at the end of the tunnel & it ain't the train coming the other way! That's still only my considered opinion, however. What about the rest of you guys???

(edited for bad spelling!)

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: RampTramp ]</p>

DHL regularly operated the A300 on routes from BRU to LOS and BAH; to BAH with the odd fuel stop in LCA but capable of non-stop with reduced payload.
Although the max payload on the A300 is above 40 tons, DHL rarely utilies this as they aircraft are full by volume around 35 tons.

The A300 was brought in as the replacement for the long diesel 8s, and offered more payload, much more volume and considerable operational savings. Yes it's a 3 crew kite, but the alternative would have been the A300-600, which are much more expensive and not readily available second hand in the sme numbers as the B4-200. DHL does not buy new. In short, the A300s offered DHL the only viable growth potential, and continues to provide excellent service.

The B757SF and A300 uses the same ULD types and therefore compatibility from a cargo point of view is not a problem. Obviously the 757s won't accept the widebody lowerdeck ULDs. And as with the A300 DHL will normally not be utilising the full 28 tons capability of the B757SF, but will top out on volume around 23 tons.

So Myrr, we're happy with both the A300 and B757.

EAT are running a course for three A300 crews at the moment and for another three crews next month (taken from EAT noticeboard). Are these crews gonna operate the ACL A300s when they come across and if so what happens to the ACL guys?

I was told yesterday that ACL is taking on two more Shreiner A300 crews on a two year contract. So it looks like they won't be converting any 727 crews soon. Thus the 727's will we around for quite some time. Could be wrong though...

It seems to me the B727 ACL guys are either being saved for 757 conversion or they are down the road. What about the B727 F/Es? They do not seem to fit in anywhere in the new plan. All seems good news for management bad news for crew. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

I have been reading the comments by Ramp Tramp and Chris cargo. On this subject surely if the A300 of EAT are returned from ACL,and the two A300 you say are owned by ACL are to be dry leased, and the Air Postal contract of ACL is dry lease and ACL are getting shot of say 4 B727. You dont need an A in maths to see that ACL is going to have surplus of pilots and flight engineers.Whats ACL like when it comes to spending money retraining crews?

At last the penny drops. You guys, especially Ramp tramp have been clutching at straws. Not only are we surplus to requirements but will not be transfered to DHL Air because we are not type rated. Furthermore I overheard in BRU the other night that DHL are downsizing the Euro network the first casualties of which will be the A300's. Now does it all fit. We've been duped by Hugh Flynn. He's alright we're all screwed. I'm outta here

I heard that the ACL crews from the A300's will be offered the chance to go across to E.A.T on a belgian contract. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Good to see that everybody is so positive .
In my opinion it will all work out in the long run(but that who am I).

Neil

One other thing I've noticed. Can Hugh Flynn become an accountable manager of DHL Air. I confess that my knowledge of the regulations here is not too good, can somebody help me out here? As I understand it, non EU nationals are precluded from becoming post holders in a UK registered airline. If the CAA reject him as a post holder he hasn't much of a leg to stand on. Am I a right here? Can someone clarify this please

Millair
ACL A300 crews to work for EAT. Sounds great until the Belgium goverment insist that EAT give the jobs to all the Sabena crews out of work.Things are not looking good.
Neil
Full marks for looking on the bright side, but if I were you get in your spacecraft and go back to planet Zog.!
<img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Butting in again, I agree with Chris Cargo EAT are taking ex Sabena crews and retraining 727 crews, if you add the A300 crews from ACL it looks like a surplus.Not sure who going to take the long walk.

There are sure some Big egos around look what happened to Sabena.I don't think DHL are that naive. History will tell, another thing Who will actually own the aircraft?

I M Sparticus

ACL 727 Pilots will be offered jobs at DHL Air once they pass the selection criteria, sim assessment etc. This has been made known to DHL Air and is a valid attempt to provide jobs to ACL Pilots by DHL


Not sure about ACL A300 crews being offered job at DHL Air if they are also offered an EAT job. On the lines of previous threads - possibility of ACL A300 Pilot to DHL Air, thus releasing a A300 job to a Belgian?.
Bit expensive though..
DHL Air would welcome any ACL Crews as they are freight minded and won't foxtrot oscar when any up turn in the pax market arrives. The ACL A300 crews might prefer EAT anyway given their days off patterns.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">