Trouble brewing for DHL and Brussels Airport noise
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Trouble brewing for DHL and Brussels Airport noise
Zaventem, 16/1/2003
NOTE TO THE EAT STAFF
Dear colleagues,
The following is a statement from DHL and EAT about the recent developments regarding the night flights issue. If you have questions on this issue, please do not hesitate to contact Annemie Cranshof or myself.
Best regards, Geoff Kehr
You will be aware from recent media coverage that DHL has been the focus of attention regarding the issue of night flights over Brussels, with various politicians making public statements about the issue. It is recognised that the upcoming elections on 18th May have intensified this debate.
However, we would like to emphasise that DHL has no intention of leaving Belgium and the continuation of a regulatory framework which safeguards employment is of paramount importance.
The agreement concluded in February 2000 within the Federal Government, permitting night flights under certain strict conditions, will be maintained. DHL meets all of the conditions specified within that agreement. DHL has, indeed, taken several initiatives to reduce the impact of its operations, notably the B757 fleet renewal programme, the phase out of the B727 by 15 March 2002 for night flights in Brussels, increased use of road transport and a modification of the flight procedure.
On 16 July 2002, an agreement was reached between the Federal, Flemish and Brussels Government, of which the most important objective was to reduce the noise nuisance for inhabitants of those neighbourhoods in and around the area of Brussels airport.
There are strong beliefs that this objective could be achieved by a concentration of night flights over the North of Brussels, in combination with the insulation program.
However, the inhabitants of communities such as Machelen, Vilvoorde, Grimbergen and Meise are concerned about the volume of night flights and plead for some dispersion. Mayors (such as Dehaene), politicians and action groups from the North of Brussels are expressing the same feeling. They will continue to fight against a concentration and night flights and use the threat of a ban in order to initiate once again the debate about dispersal and/or concentration of the night flights. We cannot believe that such a ban is really on their political agenda.
Currently, Ministers continue working on the basis of the proposed agenda, namely the concentration of the night flights over the North of Brussels, but with the necessary adjustments to routes in order to minimise the numbers of people affected by this.
In view of these opposing positions and the upcoming elections, it is to be expected that, over the course of the next days and weeks, we will regularly see DHL, its employees and planes on television.
DHL's position in this political debate about the dispersion or concentration is clear: we are not an active participant. As long as the imposed flight routes are operationally feasible and safe, and that employment in Belgium is honoured, we will of course comply with the government's decision.
With the B757 fleet renewal programme, DHL has complied with the demands of the government and, at the same time, has realised a reduction in noise.
NOTE TO THE EAT STAFF
Dear colleagues,
The following is a statement from DHL and EAT about the recent developments regarding the night flights issue. If you have questions on this issue, please do not hesitate to contact Annemie Cranshof or myself.
Best regards, Geoff Kehr
You will be aware from recent media coverage that DHL has been the focus of attention regarding the issue of night flights over Brussels, with various politicians making public statements about the issue. It is recognised that the upcoming elections on 18th May have intensified this debate.
However, we would like to emphasise that DHL has no intention of leaving Belgium and the continuation of a regulatory framework which safeguards employment is of paramount importance.
The agreement concluded in February 2000 within the Federal Government, permitting night flights under certain strict conditions, will be maintained. DHL meets all of the conditions specified within that agreement. DHL has, indeed, taken several initiatives to reduce the impact of its operations, notably the B757 fleet renewal programme, the phase out of the B727 by 15 March 2002 for night flights in Brussels, increased use of road transport and a modification of the flight procedure.
On 16 July 2002, an agreement was reached between the Federal, Flemish and Brussels Government, of which the most important objective was to reduce the noise nuisance for inhabitants of those neighbourhoods in and around the area of Brussels airport.
There are strong beliefs that this objective could be achieved by a concentration of night flights over the North of Brussels, in combination with the insulation program.
However, the inhabitants of communities such as Machelen, Vilvoorde, Grimbergen and Meise are concerned about the volume of night flights and plead for some dispersion. Mayors (such as Dehaene), politicians and action groups from the North of Brussels are expressing the same feeling. They will continue to fight against a concentration and night flights and use the threat of a ban in order to initiate once again the debate about dispersal and/or concentration of the night flights. We cannot believe that such a ban is really on their political agenda.
Currently, Ministers continue working on the basis of the proposed agenda, namely the concentration of the night flights over the North of Brussels, but with the necessary adjustments to routes in order to minimise the numbers of people affected by this.
In view of these opposing positions and the upcoming elections, it is to be expected that, over the course of the next days and weeks, we will regularly see DHL, its employees and planes on television.
DHL's position in this political debate about the dispersion or concentration is clear: we are not an active participant. As long as the imposed flight routes are operationally feasible and safe, and that employment in Belgium is honoured, we will of course comply with the government's decision.
With the B757 fleet renewal programme, DHL has complied with the demands of the government and, at the same time, has realised a reduction in noise.
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I suppose it comes down to the official definition of night but;
I've positioned in on Air Contractors 72's 'pretty late' in the dark hours as recently as a month ago. Or is it a misprint of 2003?
PP
phase out of the B727 by 15 March 2002 for night flights in Brussels
PP
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Pilot Pete,
Belgian AIP defines 'night' from sunset + 30mins to sunrise - 30mins.
As far as I'm aware, the phasing out of B727's is an agreement between DHL/EAT and the authorities; this doesn't mean that 727's belonging to other operators (not so into 'night activities' at BRU)are banned from 'night flying' in Brussels.
Regards,
Peter
Belgian AIP defines 'night' from sunset + 30mins to sunrise - 30mins.
As far as I'm aware, the phasing out of B727's is an agreement between DHL/EAT and the authorities; this doesn't mean that 727's belonging to other operators (not so into 'night activities' at BRU)are banned from 'night flying' in Brussels.
Regards,
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
I was thinking more along the lines of what times the airport considers to be night for purposes of noise, if it was half an hour after sunset then it would be extremely restrictive in the winter!
Air Contractors are working for DHL in the 727 so would assume that they would be subject to any agreement between DHL/EAT and the authorities.
Regards
PP
I was thinking more along the lines of what times the airport considers to be night for purposes of noise, if it was half an hour after sunset then it would be extremely restrictive in the winter!
Air Contractors are working for DHL in the 727 so would assume that they would be subject to any agreement between DHL/EAT and the authorities.
Regards
PP
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Politicians ....
It's nothing but politicians trying to grab a few extra votes. You may rest assured that no politician will be the one effectively signing the notice for some 10.000 people in Belgium.
Furthermore, BRU National lost around 40% of all traffice when Sabena folded. DHL is now by far the single largest operator in BRU, accounting for around 60% of the movements. I really don't see how BRU National could survive without DHL; there's no "new" Sabena in the pipeline and all the start-ups that emerged after Sabena left have all folded too.
It's election year, and besides DHL can only commit themselves to BRU as long as both the current operational level is sustainable whilst also providing room for growth. There are more than this here airport centrally placed in Europe, Mr. Politician, and whether the guys on the floor and in the offices speak Flemmish, German or French is not really important.
We can always make like a tree and leave.
Furthermore, BRU National lost around 40% of all traffice when Sabena folded. DHL is now by far the single largest operator in BRU, accounting for around 60% of the movements. I really don't see how BRU National could survive without DHL; there's no "new" Sabena in the pipeline and all the start-ups that emerged after Sabena left have all folded too.
It's election year, and besides DHL can only commit themselves to BRU as long as both the current operational level is sustainable whilst also providing room for growth. There are more than this here airport centrally placed in Europe, Mr. Politician, and whether the guys on the floor and in the offices speak Flemmish, German or French is not really important.
We can always make like a tree and leave.
Man of the Marsh
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As a semi-interested bystander I have often been curious about about why DHL chose BRU for its euro-hub in the mid-'80s. I am sure that it had some attractive qualities (ie: political/financial) but wondered, at the time, what other advantages it held. It is unlikely that the ever-increasing annual tonnage of documentation that emanates from the European Commission (EC) justified Brussells itself as a source of significant air cargo 
Just 64nm up the road (290º) lies the airport of Ostend (EBOS/OST) which remains undeservedly neglected. I have little doubt that, given the impetus of a major operator, Ostend could accommodate Cat2/3 ops, and sorting facilities equal to those at BRU. I also doubt that there would be much of a noise-lobby in that area.
No airline these days has any hope, especially at night, of expanding or retaining capacity at an airport near a major european city. FFF is entirely correct in his observations. Moving the hub out of BRU could prove to be a long-term winner for DHL, but would political pressures on Deutsche Post prevent this?
I see some shadows of aviation history creeping over this issue but hope that pragmatism wins the day in this instance.
Just 64nm up the road (290º) lies the airport of Ostend (EBOS/OST) which remains undeservedly neglected. I have little doubt that, given the impetus of a major operator, Ostend could accommodate Cat2/3 ops, and sorting facilities equal to those at BRU. I also doubt that there would be much of a noise-lobby in that area.
No airline these days has any hope, especially at night, of expanding or retaining capacity at an airport near a major european city. FFF is entirely correct in his observations. Moving the hub out of BRU could prove to be a long-term winner for DHL, but would political pressures on Deutsche Post prevent this?
I see some shadows of aviation history creeping over this issue but hope that pragmatism wins the day in this instance.
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EGLL
DirkDJ
Why would EGLL come into this? The DHL connection?
Space limitation would overule this one, eventhough we have a big(ish) DHL facility at EGLL. We have 2xflights per night thru EGLL.
Virtually no takeoffs after 0001hrs LT from EGLL. The only landings are the long haul traffic from far east and one or two late evening East Coast USAs (Boston BA flight) before 0600LT
which are controlled by quotas.
If we get a bit of bad weather, can get departures upto 0200 LT in extreme circumstances to get aircraft away to where they need to be.
OSTEND....
Ostend has powerful local anti-aviation lobby, Green Party ministers etc. Look at what they did getting the IL76s,DC8s and B707s away from Ostend. OST kicked these types out a LONG time before the Stage 2 ban came in.
That is why it is now so desolate.
The old freighter birds kept OST thriving.
There is no real attraction for any carrier to locate there.
There is a strong local noise lobby in OST, don't kid yourselves.
Runway & ILS + grnd handling is plentiful.
Ideal freight airport.
Main south west bnd r/way goes out over the sea!!!
Why would EGLL come into this? The DHL connection?
Space limitation would overule this one, eventhough we have a big(ish) DHL facility at EGLL. We have 2xflights per night thru EGLL.
Virtually no takeoffs after 0001hrs LT from EGLL. The only landings are the long haul traffic from far east and one or two late evening East Coast USAs (Boston BA flight) before 0600LT
which are controlled by quotas.
If we get a bit of bad weather, can get departures upto 0200 LT in extreme circumstances to get aircraft away to where they need to be.
OSTEND....
Ostend has powerful local anti-aviation lobby, Green Party ministers etc. Look at what they did getting the IL76s,DC8s and B707s away from Ostend. OST kicked these types out a LONG time before the Stage 2 ban came in.
That is why it is now so desolate.
The old freighter birds kept OST thriving.
There is no real attraction for any carrier to locate there.
There is a strong local noise lobby in OST, don't kid yourselves.
Runway & ILS + grnd handling is plentiful.
Ideal freight airport.
Main south west bnd r/way goes out over the sea!!!
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DHL correction for Brussels flights
DHL confirms it will reduce, not discontinue, Boeing 727 Freighter service into Brussels from8 to 3 flights a night at this time. The other Boeing 727s are moving to the East Midlands base. DHL expects that all 727 flights will be discontinued by the end of Mar03 at which point it will operate Airbus A300s and Boeing 757s into Brussels.
DHL confirms it will reduce, not discontinue, Boeing 727 Freighter service into Brussels from8 to 3 flights a night at this time. The other Boeing 727s are moving to the East Midlands base. DHL expects that all 727 flights will be discontinued by the end of Mar03 at which point it will operate Airbus A300s and Boeing 757s into Brussels.
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fly-146...
sorry to dissapoint you...but all ''civil'' terrain at EBLG has been sold already, none of it to DHL. The area you're talking about ''opposite'' TNT belongs to the Ministery of Defence, is still being used as a helicopter base, and will be for the years to come...this has been confirmed to me by a high ranking army officer...the military are not at all prepared to hand over that part of the airfield to the civilians, pressure to do so has already been excercised by some politicians, all to no avail. Furthermore there is a waiting list for that part of the airfield, and a memorandum of understanding has been signed already three years ago between the [civil] airport authorities and a consortium of Aeroports de Paris and Air France for a freighter terminal....long time before DHL even considered moving to EBLG....personaly I can not see DHL move to EBLG in the years to come...as for the 'new runway'....there are two runways already...second one parallel to the main one and too close for [safe] simultaneous operations...a new runway 90degrees offset would be nearly impossible as it would mean: [a] approach / take-off over the city of Liege [b] be limited by motorway on east side of airport and high-speed railtrack running northeast to southwest along airport [c] additional noise-disturbance to concentrated habitations like Waremme, Seraing, even as far as Sint-Truiden and Hannut.
sorry to dissapoint you...but all ''civil'' terrain at EBLG has been sold already, none of it to DHL. The area you're talking about ''opposite'' TNT belongs to the Ministery of Defence, is still being used as a helicopter base, and will be for the years to come...this has been confirmed to me by a high ranking army officer...the military are not at all prepared to hand over that part of the airfield to the civilians, pressure to do so has already been excercised by some politicians, all to no avail. Furthermore there is a waiting list for that part of the airfield, and a memorandum of understanding has been signed already three years ago between the [civil] airport authorities and a consortium of Aeroports de Paris and Air France for a freighter terminal....long time before DHL even considered moving to EBLG....personaly I can not see DHL move to EBLG in the years to come...as for the 'new runway'....there are two runways already...second one parallel to the main one and too close for [safe] simultaneous operations...a new runway 90degrees offset would be nearly impossible as it would mean: [a] approach / take-off over the city of Liege [b] be limited by motorway on east side of airport and high-speed railtrack running northeast to southwest along airport [c] additional noise-disturbance to concentrated habitations like Waremme, Seraing, even as far as Sint-Truiden and Hannut.
Oops pardon me
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Dam Cheek
I dont know how Brussels have the cheek to lay down the law to EAT/DHL about flying restrictions.
If it wasnt for them BRU airport would have been a ghost town with tumble weed blowing down the runway after the collapse of Sabena.
Imagine the impact on the local community if DHL did pull out.
Bet there would be a lot of back peddaling by the Belgian government.
I live near an airport and if I didnt like the noise then I would move.......simple as that.
As for the 727.......well noise doesnt seem to be a factor when all those eastern block TU154's etc dump in at all times of the dayand night.
And the 757, although a different sort of noise, still wakes me up as climb power is applied over my house.
Ok we have to move with the times , but its all this politacal xxxxxx that has forced perfectly good aerplanes and jobs out long before their sell by date, just p###es me off.
Get real BRU and be grateful
Coopervane
If it wasnt for them BRU airport would have been a ghost town with tumble weed blowing down the runway after the collapse of Sabena.
Imagine the impact on the local community if DHL did pull out.
Bet there would be a lot of back peddaling by the Belgian government.
I live near an airport and if I didnt like the noise then I would move.......simple as that.
As for the 727.......well noise doesnt seem to be a factor when all those eastern block TU154's etc dump in at all times of the dayand night.
And the 757, although a different sort of noise, still wakes me up as climb power is applied over my house.
Ok we have to move with the times , but its all this politacal xxxxxx that has forced perfectly good aerplanes and jobs out long before their sell by date, just p###es me off.
Get real BRU and be grateful
Coopervane
Last edited by CR2; 30th Jan 2003 at 06:45.
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727s to EMA
So they intend to move the 727s to EMA. Very thoughtfull of DHL to just move the problem to someone elses backyard. Hope they all get a good nights sleep in Brussels. Its not as though there will be more jobs for Brit crews at EMA as a result.
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EMA NOISE
So, B727s ousted to EMA for the time being then?
More Fan Blades over Kegworth and noise over Melbourne for some time to come.
Dont mind the A300s or 757s though climbing away to Sapco
More Fan Blades over Kegworth and noise over Melbourne for some time to come.
Dont mind the A300s or 757s though climbing away to Sapco
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SevenO
That is an extremely misguided judgement to be placed at the door of DHL, one of the very few UK operators to have been employing British (amongst other nationalities) crewsin significant numbers post September 11th. This continues to be the case and will be for some considerable time yet. As has already been pointed out the 727 is being phased out and replaced by 757's, applications still very welcome from any 'Brit Crews' who feel they fit the bill.
Gees, why is it people move to live next to an airport and then do nothing but complain about the noise?
PP
That is an extremely misguided judgement to be placed at the door of DHL, one of the very few UK operators to have been employing British (amongst other nationalities) crewsin significant numbers post September 11th. This continues to be the case and will be for some considerable time yet. As has already been pointed out the 727 is being phased out and replaced by 757's, applications still very welcome from any 'Brit Crews' who feel they fit the bill.
Gees, why is it people move to live next to an airport and then do nothing but complain about the noise?
PP
Oops pardon me
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Jobs at DHL Bru
I applied (whilst still working for ACL) for a job as an F/E on the A300 back in March 2002.
Since then I have had the run around regarding when they are hiring and when or if they are running a type course.
All I want is a straight answer.I am an F/E with 2100 hours on the 727. I know what night freight is all about so its not as if I cant do the job.
Now I am redundant the subject is even more pressing. I wont sit around waiting but it would be nice to have some positive response as, after all, if they give me a chance, the risks involved in hiring an unknown quantity is somewhat reduced.
Personnel departments are the scurge of the job world and half the battle sometimes is getting past the fortress. So if you are an EAT man or woman reading this,with some clout in the company, give me a ring and tell me when I can start..........you wont be dissapointed!!
Coopervane
Since then I have had the run around regarding when they are hiring and when or if they are running a type course.
All I want is a straight answer.I am an F/E with 2100 hours on the 727. I know what night freight is all about so its not as if I cant do the job.
Now I am redundant the subject is even more pressing. I wont sit around waiting but it would be nice to have some positive response as, after all, if they give me a chance, the risks involved in hiring an unknown quantity is somewhat reduced.
Personnel departments are the scurge of the job world and half the battle sometimes is getting past the fortress. So if you are an EAT man or woman reading this,with some clout in the company, give me a ring and tell me when I can start..........you wont be dissapointed!!
Coopervane
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Pilot Pete
So the noise is unacceptable to the residents in Brussels, but OK for the folks in the East Midlands. Gees PP, I think you have missed the point old chap. Oh, for your information I do not reside close to any airport.
Geees, some people!!!!! Have a nice day
Geees, some people!!!!! Have a nice day
