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Departing Saudia Cargo 747 'departs' runway

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Departing Saudia Cargo 747 'departs' runway

Old 12th Nov 2017, 02:02
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Departing Saudia Cargo 747 'departs' runway

Maastricht-Aachen Airport, late Saturday evening, approx. 22:25 UTC.

A Saudia Cargo 747-428F(ER) bound for Jeddah has somehow left the paved surfaces during line-up or the beginning of the take-off run, and is now standing "in the grass", according to media sources and Flightradar24 imagery.
Airplane is TC-ACR, operating as SV / SVA916.

The source below suggests thrust asymmetry due to engine ‘failure’.
https://www.transport-online.nl/site...-airport-foto/

"The aircraft suffered engine failure then rejected takeoff, leading some of the wheels into the grass." (https://twitter.com/airlivenet)

Last edited by Plumb Bob; 12th Nov 2017 at 02:20.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 02:16
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Engine failure below eighty knots can be quite a handful.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 03:13
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Depends where you are from.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 03:28
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Yup, closing the thrust levers is so difficult.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 04:47
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Was this a Turkish MyCargo (formerly ACT Airlines) crew?

Does the B-744 have the gotcha on a low speed (below 85 knots) reject where the throttles come back up if you don't click the disconnect?
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 04:56
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has somehow left the paved surfaces during line-up or the beginning of the take-off run
How does this relate to the 85 kts in the discussion above? isn't the nose wheel dominant during line up?
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 06:21
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The N-1 or 2 take off can be quite tricky on the 744 especially at low speeds when you can end up 90 degrees of runway heading in a matter less than a second with the tiller being unable to correct this.
Having said this knowing the operator was the one who had a crash in Russia couple of months ago because the crew was far above the 3 degree glide maybe something might be wrong with the cockpit culture or training?

Yes it was the Turks Airbubba
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 07:06
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Yes, there's a reason we stand the trust levers up to 1.20 or 45% to stabilise the engines before selecting TOGA.

You'll end up off the side one day if you don't.

Off course, there's always going to be clowns that don't follow Boeing advice...
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 08:09
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Has the airport a B747 tug? I doubt it, but then again if there nose wheel is near the grass so will the tug be. What is happening about opening the runway?
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 10:29
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I have had a low speed No1 failure in the simulator and it is tricky. The nose wheel is sliding before you know it. Closing the thrust levers and disconnecting the auto throttle; the engines still take a while to spool down plus by the time they have, you already have rotational inertia so it will keep going even with the differential thrust removed, the nosewheel has already lost traction so is doing little to counteract the spin. Differential braking would help, but a normal RTO uses auto brakes which you would disengage by applying foot braking, so that is not your first immediate reaction. By the time you have processed what is happening and that you require manual braking, you are already headed for the side of the runway. If you were quick enough on the brakes and moving slowly enough when the problem first occurred, you will stop before leaving the paved surface, but I can imagine there is a 'sweet spot' where you would not stand a chance of avoiding it in the real world.

Last edited by GS-Alpha; 12th Nov 2017 at 10:46.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 11:22
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Just for the record, it was an engine failure at take off thrust. Nothing to do with the line-up.

Airport will be closed until tomorrow morning at the very least.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 14:21
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Autobrakes are not generally a factor in a low speed abort since they have not armed. Differential braking is immediately available.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 14:54
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Folks,
Believe me ( I have quite a few thousand hours on them) a -744 engine failure with thrust set, and around 80/90 knots (way below Vmcg) is the hardest to keep off the grass.

Particularly a RR 524 powered, the thrust wind-down seems faster than GE in a flame out.

The moment your sense the failure, it is THRUST OFF, BRAKES ON in that order -- then speedbrakes etc. ---- and you will probably wind up using some differential brake at the expense of stopping distance, to stay on the runway. You have one, maybe two seconds to get the asymmetric thrust off.

FAA have a study ( probably more than one) of engine failures on takeoff, for you doubters, makes interesting reading. For an embarrassingly large number of aborts due to engine failure, runway length to stop is not a big issue, because the aircraft will go off the side due loss of directional control.

Some of the posts suggest it is just a "walk in the park" but that is just where you might finish up --- out in the green stuff, any of you who think you are fireproof could not be on the actual aircraft --- except as self-loading freight.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 15:15
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Interesting that initial reports suggest deployment of thrust reversers.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 15:36
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Originally Posted by shortly2 View Post
Yup, closing the thrust levers is so difficult.


try it in the sim sometime
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 17:53
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 18:25
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Folks,
Believe me ( I have quite a few thousand hours on them) a -744 engine failure with thrust set, and around 80/90 knots (way below Vmcg) is the hardest to keep off the grass
Absolutely, and that is at normal (high) gross weights already the case.

Then at low weights, full thrust and wet runway it is almost impossible to keep it on the runway even when thrustlevers are closed right away. Only heavy asymmetric braking might prevent an offroad excursion...
In this aspect 4 engined plane is more critical then 2 engined.
(of course this applies to outboard engine only)

So don't blame the Turkish this time..

Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 15th Nov 2017 at 13:51. Reason: changed B747 in 4-engined ;)
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 18:25
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Originally Posted by shortly2 View Post
Yup, closing the thrust levers is so difficult.
How many hours do you have in the Whale?
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 18:29
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Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra View Post
In this aspect B747 is more critical then all other aircraft.
(of course this applies to outboard engine only)
Try an empty A300 or similar....
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 18:44
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Compared to an A330 which I guess is the closest you can get to an A300 is a ride in the park compared to a 744 under similair low speed condtions
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