Another US B-747 Freighter Fleet Gone
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 111
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From: Good ol' USA
The reason!!!!
No one cared about Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, now u know , no nothing when you spend 20-30 up to 40 years in the USA, you will retire with nothing!!! Let's all spend time to rebuild this industry so that our future generation will have a quality of retirement. BEST OF LUCK TO ALL
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
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From: Arizona USA
Other than niche market requirements for nose loaders (such as Atlas), industry trend seems to be moving the other way . . Pax carriers, FedEx, Luffty (Lufthansa Cargo), and others don't agree . . . not even a super big 747f (the scarebus 380f) had found significant demand.
I applaud the 747-8, but also expect that they will prove to be the last of the "two engine on one wing" aviation era. . . . . for profitable quirky economic long haul, expect for the 777f to eventually kick pants.
I applaud the 747-8, but also expect that they will prove to be the last of the "two engine on one wing" aviation era. . . . . for profitable quirky economic long haul, expect for the 777f to eventually kick pants.
Even in the pax market, two engines is the way to go, for new airplanes.
Even as far back as 1980, when the (then) DFO at SQ, Capt SK (Charlie) Chan and I had adult beverages over a couple of Havanas, this was discussed..and we both came to the obvious...two engines rule.
Took awhile, but you can now see the writing on the wall...clearly.
Especially important in the freight market...
for profitable quirky economic long haul, expect for the 777f to eventually kick pants.
Top Dog
Joined: May 2000
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From: Close to FACT
Can a 777F carry it's own engine (internally, without dismantling the whole thing)? Sorry for thread drift, I should know better 
In a similar vein, if 2 engines good, 4 engines bad, how come the MD11F never really made it in the market (3 engines being somewhere in between good and bad... )'
In a similar vein, if 2 engines good, 4 engines bad, how come the MD11F never really made it in the market (3 engines being somewhere in between good and bad...
)'
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 287
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From: KLAX
I believe that triple 7 motors come with their own respective fwd cowl fairings pre attached. It's all part of the QEC package (quick engine exchange). Mighty big cabin required to accept an engine with a 10' diameter cowl fairing.
The MD 11 had disappointedly proved to be a lousy pax airplane, but I had thought that it was much loved as a freighter for the economics. I understand that Fed Ex wanted many more, and even the air cargo arm of Luffty had requested that the MD11 assembly line be reopened, but too late . . . . Ex pax MD 11's at that time were then eagerly snapped up for freighter conversion.
In February, of 2001, I had sadly witnessed the last MD11 depart it's LGB factory (a freighter, also in Lufthansa colors, I think).
The MD 11 had disappointedly proved to be a lousy pax airplane, but I had thought that it was much loved as a freighter for the economics. I understand that Fed Ex wanted many more, and even the air cargo arm of Luffty had requested that the MD11 assembly line be reopened, but too late . . . . Ex pax MD 11's at that time were then eagerly snapped up for freighter conversion.
In February, of 2001, I had sadly witnessed the last MD11 depart it's LGB factory (a freighter, also in Lufthansa colors, I think).
Last edited by L-38; 30th April 2009 at 21:50.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 243
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From: USA
777 Engine
CR2 is right on target as he is is most of the time. Can't get a 777 engine through the side door on another 777. It will fit in the side door of the 74 with about 2 inches to spare on the top, I have watched them go in and out on more than three occasions. Also the nose door allows things like oil drilling equipment, radio towers, wind generators etc. I would not count out the 74 for many years to come, but that is just my opinion.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 43
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From: mauritius
Sorry for hijacking this thread,but does anyone knows how Nippon Cargo is doing in the present world economic climate(crisis) ?
I heard that they have close there NY base some time ago,any truth to this this ?
Any info would be appreciated !!! Thanks Skychick 2
I heard that they have close there NY base some time ago,any truth to this this ?
Any info would be appreciated !!! Thanks Skychick 2
Joined: Sep 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 956
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From: away from home
That could have been interesting, if Boeing had made the front end of the 777F open up like the CL-44 of yesteryear.
Just a thought......
Just a thought......
All of them had a swingtail though for a significant opening.
Registered User **
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: USA
CR2
In a similar vein, if 2 engines good, 4 engines bad, how come the MD11F never really made it in the market (3 engines being somewhere in between good and bad... 
)'
)'
The MD-11 became a better option when markets receded, ATLAS just about tanked with a whole fleet of 747's in a slow market.
The 748f will probably be more efficient than the currently being produced 777f that is based on the 777LR. Boeing added alot of composite structure to the LR as I understand to make it a competative aircraft.
We must also take into account the difference betwen the value of bulking out v/s weighing out an aircraft. A 4 engine bird will allways be valuable with weight in mind. Package companies will probably do well with the 777F as the rarely take off at max gross but the aircraft has volume. The 748-F is sure to be a great heavylift aircraft.
Another aspect of the industry that the 747 and 380 are an asset in are regulated markts. If you are only allowed x amount of slots at an airport but have lots of product (pax/freight) you can maximize revenue by having a larger aircraft.
Back on the main topic, these aircraft if 7R4 powered should be quite marketable. I too have never seen a 7R4 on a -200 but it is a great improvement over the pain in the ass -70.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 14
From: Europe
Don't forget that outsize cargo represents only a small percentage (actually a fracture of it) in overall movement. While it is good to keep versatility especially if it not incurs extra operating expenses (like 747 NCD vs SCD), $/lbs/nm or EUR/kg/km is ruling the market and I believe we can see the trend very clearly with 744BCF, 777F, MD11, A330F etc. Surely there is a place for 747NCD on the market but in most cases beancounters will prefer to turn down 0.5% of the bookings in return for lower cost for the remaining 99.5% of the cargo.
Russkies are still there for real outsize job with AN124, so you would not miss your spare GE90
Russkies are still there for real outsize job with AN124, so you would not miss your spare GE90
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 235
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From: The Green Heart of Europe!
The NCD is not solely for outsize cargo.
At busy hubs where ground time/slots are at a premium it makes for very versatile ground handling, using both doors reducing ground time considerably.
Remember, time in the air is money.
At busy hubs where ground time/slots are at a premium it makes for very versatile ground handling, using both doors reducing ground time considerably.
Remember, time in the air is money.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Navarre
I don't think the 747-800 will kill the 777, not in the least. The fuel burn is just too good on the 777, a whopping 25% less (Boeing's numbers). The -800 will have a good niche though if for no other reason than the outsized cargo market.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 243
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From: USA
"I don't think the 747-800 will kill the 777, not in the least. The fuel burn is just too good on the 777, a whopping 25% less (Boeing's numbers). The -800 will have a good niche though if for no other reason than the outsized cargo market."
Layinlow, There is no plans to build any Boeing -800 aircraft that I am aware of. Are you by chance referring to the new 747-8?
Layinlow, There is no plans to build any Boeing -800 aircraft that I am aware of. Are you by chance referring to the new 747-8?