Flying the 747-200
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Likes: 9
From: Blighty
It really depends on what equipment the aircraft has. A lot of classics have been upgraded, but there are still some flying with units such as the Delco Carousel which only has the ability to accept nine manually inputted waypoints at a time. The ones I flew had Marconi FMS900s fed from Litton 92 IRSs and glass instruments. Those FMCs were actually better than the 744s.
If you're using the older types of kit, yes it can be a bit of a challenge. Cross checking every waypoint is essntial. But I can't believe there are many aircraft still flying with those. Modern RNP requirements demand better in some parts of the world. For example, European RNP requirements state you have to have a Nav display.
If you're using the older types of kit, yes it can be a bit of a challenge. Cross checking every waypoint is essntial. But I can't believe there are many aircraft still flying with those. Modern RNP requirements demand better in some parts of the world. For example, European RNP requirements state you have to have a Nav display.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 2
From: USA
We use two marconi FMS units built on the Litton 92, which is updated through a GNS/XLS for GPS input (self aligning), and an additional independent GPS unit. Displays are glass for EADI and EHSI, the everything else analog.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,204
Likes: 2
From: Seattle
We use 3 LTN-92s with no FMS. Crossing the pond is no problem. Just check accuracy at the start and ensure all waypoints are correct.
The only "problem" is when occasionally at the east end, Scottish Control gets concerned as the airplane wanders back & forth a mile or 3 across track as the DME updating resumes and the airplane appears to be "lost" for a few minutes...
The only "problem" is when occasionally at the east end, Scottish Control gets concerned as the airplane wanders back & forth a mile or 3 across track as the DME updating resumes and the airplane appears to be "lost" for a few minutes...
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 1
From: AEP
Our vintage 747-200s have -
Three LTN-92 INS with two GPS update, and two FMS900 (Marconi)
Works great - Fully RNP-5 compliant -
Accuracy is equal as a brand new 2008 airplane would be.
xxx
Airplanes are going to be retired next month, Desert sands of Arizona...
They probably will sell these avionics.
I am retiring too. Beach sands of Brazil.
My avionics will be salvaged too when comes the time.
Heart, kidneys and eyes. Still good operating status for these items.
For the other thing, sorry, use Viagra, should you wish a transplant.
xxx
Happy contrails
Three LTN-92 INS with two GPS update, and two FMS900 (Marconi)
Works great - Fully RNP-5 compliant -
Accuracy is equal as a brand new 2008 airplane would be.
xxx
Airplanes are going to be retired next month, Desert sands of Arizona...
They probably will sell these avionics.
I am retiring too. Beach sands of Brazil.
My avionics will be salvaged too when comes the time.
Heart, kidneys and eyes. Still good operating status for these items.
For the other thing, sorry, use Viagra, should you wish a transplant.
xxx
Happy contrails
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: uk
747-200 is probably the most rewarding aircraft you will ever get the chance to fly.it handles superbly,with the minimum of effort and is amazingly responsive for such a large machine.enjoy the chance to fly the 200,before you become trapped,operating a computerized,more upto date alternative.many still in regular service,with a superb reliability and safety record.nice to have a 3rd crew member to chat to on longer sectors.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: UK
I agree - having been fortunate enough to fly both Classics and the 744, I have to say I enjoyed my time on the 747-200 the best. The integrated three-crew arrangement on the Classic was, in my opinion, a far better operation than the two-crew 744 - in the same way that a triplex system is superior to duplex. Additionally, the fact that the F/Eng was not a pilot brought a further healthy ingredient to the three-way operation, in that he would tend to view any problem from a different standpoint.
Having said that, the 744 is of course developmentally superior to its antecedents in most respects. The downside is that advances in automation and presentation bring a consequent reduction in exposure to some basic skills and techniques, with the inevitable result that the overall background "skill set" of many younger pilots is significantly diminished.
JD
Having said that, the 744 is of course developmentally superior to its antecedents in most respects. The downside is that advances in automation and presentation bring a consequent reduction in exposure to some basic skills and techniques, with the inevitable result that the overall background "skill set" of many younger pilots is significantly diminished.
JD
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 1
From: AEP
The flight engineer - in 747-400s...!
When we replaced our 747-200s one by one, we were to retire F/Es...
However, an option was offered to them. Make them "Cruise F/O".
xxx
A few of them were pilots, PPL and CPL... obvious no jet pilot experience.
But they had years of experience as 747-200 F/E...
They knew the maps, the routes, R/T... pilot procedures.
So, 19 of them qualified for CPL and as Cruise F/O for our 747-400s.
And... all the 747-400 F/Os got qualified as... Cruise Captains.
xxx
Our SOP in the 400s are quite similar to the 747-200.
The cruise F/Os (former F/Es) do walkaround as before. Same flight documents.
They participate in the check lists, and remain in the flight deck to 10,000 ft.
They act as F/O in cruise, time in pilot seat is shared with the other pilots.
They can remain in pilot seat during descent until 10,000 ft.
Extra pair of eyes. In case of a system malfunction, they troubleshoot.
Just as before... but from the jump seat, or a pilot seat.
xxx
Some were still young guys, in their late 30s... We saved their job.
By the way, my claim to fame - I instigated this.
Director of Operations and the Chief Pilot approved.
And we kept a few in the 200 as F/E until the last 200 is retired.
xxx
Happy contrails
P.S. We had a problem in training with most of these F/Es...
When they heard "Traffic 12 o'clock", they turned their head to the left.
However, an option was offered to them. Make them "Cruise F/O".
xxx
A few of them were pilots, PPL and CPL... obvious no jet pilot experience.
But they had years of experience as 747-200 F/E...
They knew the maps, the routes, R/T... pilot procedures.
So, 19 of them qualified for CPL and as Cruise F/O for our 747-400s.
And... all the 747-400 F/Os got qualified as... Cruise Captains.
xxx
Our SOP in the 400s are quite similar to the 747-200.
The cruise F/Os (former F/Es) do walkaround as before. Same flight documents.
They participate in the check lists, and remain in the flight deck to 10,000 ft.
They act as F/O in cruise, time in pilot seat is shared with the other pilots.
They can remain in pilot seat during descent until 10,000 ft.
Extra pair of eyes. In case of a system malfunction, they troubleshoot.
Just as before... but from the jump seat, or a pilot seat.
xxx
Some were still young guys, in their late 30s... We saved their job.
By the way, my claim to fame - I instigated this.
Director of Operations and the Chief Pilot approved.
And we kept a few in the 200 as F/E until the last 200 is retired.
xxx
Happy contrails
P.S. We had a problem in training with most of these F/Es...
When they heard "Traffic 12 o'clock", they turned their head to the left.
Last edited by BelArgUSA; 27th October 2008 at 23:59. Reason: P.S. addition
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Likes: 9
From: Blighty
The main problem with a crew without an FE is that you spend far more time finding the coldest beer in town!
Air France flew their 744s with FEs acting as a third crew member. I'm not sure if they acted ad cruise pilots, but it did have the ability to extend the crew's duty hours. And Ansett actually had FE staions installed in their 767s!
Air France flew their 744s with FEs acting as a third crew member. I'm not sure if they acted ad cruise pilots, but it did have the ability to extend the crew's duty hours. And Ansett actually had FE staions installed in their 767s!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: UK
