Polar/Atlas The Saga Continues
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"However, the Teamsters have no Aeromedical staff. They have no aviation lawyers"
EJetCa, Neither does ALPA any longer, the medical staff has always been through a contract service. This same service will still be available. The legal staff has all but deserted the sinking ship (funny how people like to be paid for their services). This service will also be available to IBT on a contractual basis.
EJetCa, Neither does ALPA any longer, the medical staff has always been through a contract service. This same service will still be available. The legal staff has all but deserted the sinking ship (funny how people like to be paid for their services). This service will also be available to IBT on a contractual basis.
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If the company wants to base crews in ANC they have to pay to move to ANC. There are no originating flights out of ANC so the company will have to buy the crews tickets to there flights. The crew cost will go through the roof. With the Polar contract, the have to move crews on their day of the extended duty pay kicks in and it is quite generous. On top of that, the company cannot even call a crew member and request that they travel on their day off (in the CBA). They certainly cannot force them to. So if the company wants to make the crews work the full 16 days, they would have to lose the crews to a minimum of two days travel leaving only 14 days of productive work, and that is assuming they can get tickets. Travel is considered a day of duty.
This is just a ploy trying to force the Polar MEC's hand in this supposedly merger process and the numerous grievances that are coming due. Add up the cost factor, the cost of paying the move to ANC, the unavailablility of quick access tickets, and the extended duty, the cost to the company will go way up. And besides, it isn't June but October when this is to happen. A very good portion of the crews are looking forward to moving, they want to see Cato and the boys blow a wad of cash, which is exactly why it won't happen.
If the company wants to base crews in ANC they have to pay to move to ANC. There are no originating flights out of ANC so the company will have to buy the crews tickets to there flights. The crew cost will go through the roof. With the Polar contract, the have to move crews on their day of the extended duty pay kicks in and it is quite generous. On top of that, the company cannot even call a crew member and request that they travel on their day off (in the CBA). They certainly cannot force them to. So if the company wants to make the crews work the full 16 days, they would have to lose the crews to a minimum of two days travel leaving only 14 days of productive work, and that is assuming they can get tickets. Travel is considered a day of duty.
This is just a ploy trying to force the Polar MEC's hand in this supposedly merger process and the numerous grievances that are coming due. Add up the cost factor, the cost of paying the move to ANC, the unavailablility of quick access tickets, and the extended duty, the cost to the company will go way up. And besides, it isn't June but October when this is to happen. A very good portion of the crews are looking forward to moving, they want to see Cato and the boys blow a wad of cash, which is exactly why it won't happen.
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I don't know the Polar schedule, but almost every Atlas flight going west and east across the Pacific carrying anything stops at ANC for fuel. Probably why Atlas has a base there.
Can't they just logistically realign the origination point for crews out of the ANC Polar crew base (Only a few keystrokes in AIMS, pattern building wise)? You know, originate and end crews in ANC since most flying would go through ANC, let alone the Atlas flights you currently DH on now. You start in your crew base ANC then fly that ANC-ORD-JFK leg or ANC - ICN - PVG as an example back and fourth? Then just airline the Polar guys form ANC to the other none ANC hub oriented places (LAX - ICN trips for example)? They could even build patterns to DH you on Atlas to LAX or PVG out of ANC to avoid tickets. All within your 16 day clock leaving you on your own afterwards to go back and forth home for commuting guys. Heaven help you if you have a broken up 16 day work month. Multiple commutes and burned days off then.
Can't they just logistically realign the origination point for crews out of the ANC Polar crew base (Only a few keystrokes in AIMS, pattern building wise)? You know, originate and end crews in ANC since most flying would go through ANC, let alone the Atlas flights you currently DH on now. You start in your crew base ANC then fly that ANC-ORD-JFK leg or ANC - ICN - PVG as an example back and fourth? Then just airline the Polar guys form ANC to the other none ANC hub oriented places (LAX - ICN trips for example)? They could even build patterns to DH you on Atlas to LAX or PVG out of ANC to avoid tickets. All within your 16 day clock leaving you on your own afterwards to go back and forth home for commuting guys. Heaven help you if you have a broken up 16 day work month. Multiple commutes and burned days off then.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 2nd Jun 2008 at 20:55.
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Originally Posted by Fr8Dog
EJetCa, Neither does ALPA any longer, the medical staff has always been through a contract service. This same service will still be available. The legal staff has all but deserted the sinking ship (funny how people like to be paid for their services). This service will also be available to IBT on a contractual basis.
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I've noted that Atlas for Teamsters have a lot of questions and answers posted already on a number of subjects. This one already done HERE.
Maybe the local has a lot to do with how things are done since a majority of the funds are kept at the local vs the National like ALPA. I've noted they already have a commitment for loss of license coverage and disability insurance.
Maybe the local has a lot to do with how things are done since a majority of the funds are kept at the local vs the National like ALPA. I've noted they already have a commitment for loss of license coverage and disability insurance.
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However, the Teamsters have no Aeromedical staff. They have no aviation lawyers, well one, but he's also president of the 747 local. There is no aviation safety staff. Who knows. Maybe they have these postions. If they do, I never heard about them in 9 years.
Any World pilots care to comment?
Any World pilots care to comment?
We have been assured by no less than J. Hoffa Jr. that we will have our own local - it means more work for the Atlas/Polar volunteers but the programs will be designed for cargo carriers - ie. custom tailored for Atlas/Polar - not some castoff program from the legacy carriers. The "one level of safety" that ALPA has been paying lip service to, as far as flight and duty time and other cargo safety issues could now become a reality.
The IBT will be as good or as bad as we make it - our own local - our own destiny - our own programs. And we WILL have the support of the Director of the Aviation division for IBT in ALL of our efforts.
The real comments you should solicit are those from ABX - they have their own local.
Last edited by WhaleFR8; 3rd Jun 2008 at 14:08.
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Let me ask you this nittly. What is the Atlas schedule out of ANC? How about delays, cancellations, etc? Getting last minute tickets out of ANC wuold be a bear. And as ticketing to another Atlas base, ame problem, last minute tickets. Crew cost would go through the roof. The crew foot print would be affected to. Travel is considered a day of duty. Then you have to pay for the move to ANC and that won't be cheap. Finally there is still the grievance on dead heading on an Atlas aircraft atill out there and not resolved.
I still don't think Cato will do it.
I still don't think Cato will do it.
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Don't know what to tell you slick. We've been doing it a number of years on the Atlas side. Of course, it has been with more profitable flights than our common carriage division of the equation. Currently the DHL side of the equation is manned by the ANC based guys. As for covering the delays, sick leave, and others, I think reserve is for that. So I imagine the current reserves held at your past bases will be done in the new base ANC. Travel would not be to different. We airmail a number of crews regularly from ANC to places they need to cover trips.
As to the travel. They can build 16 day patterns (or less to make 16 days total) taking into account travel within that duty time. I imagine those patterns beginning with a DH will be fewer. For only the most senior to bid so they won't have to get themsleves to ANC commuting wise for the beginning of an awarded trip. They could probably work out an equal cost deadhead from where they live hopefully.
Paying for moves has never bothered them in the past with us. Most of our guys usually choose to use gateway travel when they get bumped out of a base. One of the nice things we do have. Not having to move with the A/C contracts when they change and the reason why it was a big issue during negotiations.
So while your enjoying your job in MEM with FDX keep thinking of your old Polar brothers. You might be seeing more of them jumpseat commuting to ANC on FDX now. On their own time, to show up for that next beginning of pattern out of their new base.
Having had to deal with Mr. Cato over the years on our side, spending money to make a point with labor is a behavior he has done over and over again. We still live with a lot of that to this day. I would like to count the ways we at Atlas have been through it.
Considering the logistics, subjective cost of it implementation, and past behavior by management, this could be a permanent thing to make a point to Polar crews. For the guys that like living in ANC it is great. For all the other Polar guys, it's going to suck and your quality of life will be coming down. Good luck on those jumpseats getting there.
After asking around, I heard it was September on the base move for Polar.
As to the travel. They can build 16 day patterns (or less to make 16 days total) taking into account travel within that duty time. I imagine those patterns beginning with a DH will be fewer. For only the most senior to bid so they won't have to get themsleves to ANC commuting wise for the beginning of an awarded trip. They could probably work out an equal cost deadhead from where they live hopefully.
Paying for moves has never bothered them in the past with us. Most of our guys usually choose to use gateway travel when they get bumped out of a base. One of the nice things we do have. Not having to move with the A/C contracts when they change and the reason why it was a big issue during negotiations.
So while your enjoying your job in MEM with FDX keep thinking of your old Polar brothers. You might be seeing more of them jumpseat commuting to ANC on FDX now. On their own time, to show up for that next beginning of pattern out of their new base.
Having had to deal with Mr. Cato over the years on our side, spending money to make a point with labor is a behavior he has done over and over again. We still live with a lot of that to this day. I would like to count the ways we at Atlas have been through it.
Considering the logistics, subjective cost of it implementation, and past behavior by management, this could be a permanent thing to make a point to Polar crews. For the guys that like living in ANC it is great. For all the other Polar guys, it's going to suck and your quality of life will be coming down. Good luck on those jumpseats getting there.
After asking around, I heard it was September on the base move for Polar.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 3rd Jun 2008 at 17:54.
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Thankyou Nitty for making managements case unfortunately they have a better spell check then this forum. Time will tell, we will see, but I'm betting the Atlas folks will make the right Decision. I think I told you a long time ago I have no dog in this fight; except the long term effect these decisions will have on the industry. About my spelling I only can stomach ya'll's BS when I have been drinking.
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I'm not taking managements side. I just know what they can do and pointing it out. Sorry you can't take that.
Having had to go into battle a number of times for the labor front and the true bloody side of war - I just don't jump into the fray swinging, full of ego and blind faith only to be nailed and put down by a flanking attack. Something one side here has been doing for some time.
As to you not having a dog in the fight, I and probably most of us find that disingenuous.
Having had to go into battle a number of times for the labor front and the true bloody side of war - I just don't jump into the fray swinging, full of ego and blind faith only to be nailed and put down by a flanking attack. Something one side here has been doing for some time.
As to you not having a dog in the fight, I and probably most of us find that disingenuous.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 4th Jun 2008 at 05:36.
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Moving On...
Back from 2 weeks off... gotta hate this quality of life at Atlas!
Mr Low: Is Mangament like a cross between Anger & Management? May I use that?
Mr Rilly : You've come out with some doozies, but actually there finally is some semblance of truth. James R. Cato is the Vice President, Flight Operations and Labor Relations at AAWH, so if you would like to refer to him as our Master then he is your Master too. Such strange subservience you practice!
Mr Ejecta : TRUE DAT! Are the above Snips, snides or neither? 
layinlow It certainly sounds like you're taking mangaments side
rob rilly Low, seems like they always do....... Cato is the their Master....
EJetCA IMHO, snide remarks and snips at each other do absolutely nothing to add to a productive discussion.
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Moving On...
Mr Rilly : You've come out with some doozies, but actually there finally is some semblance of truth. James R. Cato is the Vice President, Flight Operations and Labor Relations at AAWH, so if you would like to refer to him as our Master then he is your Master too. Such strange subservience you practice!
i'm proved wrong!
Thank you. May I ask where you do work?
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Originally Posted by rob rilly
Not my Master, never has been, never will be............ I've never worked at either place. Seems you know nothing you're talking about.
Originally Posted by atlast
I tried to prove you've finally come out with some semblance of truth and....
i'm proved wrong! Thank you. May I ask where you do work?
i'm proved wrong!
Thank you. May I ask where you do work?He is just here for the intellectual retort with his vast knowledge and for the general improvement of the union situation in the industry in general. I'm certain he has no agenda here despite most of what he says can be tied directly back to the Polar MEC
.On the other front with Teamsters. Time is real short now. Whether you are Atlas or Polar Crews, you need to get your Authorization Cards in pronto. Numbers do count. Having a substantial number of cards reduces the resistance that the current bargaining agent puts up. Click HERE FOR PDF CARD. It has revised mailing instructions due to the upcoming filing with the NMB. You can also visit the web site at http://atlasforteamsters.com.
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I'll give it 12 months or less, the everyone will be on the street. Take a look around you.
Companies going bankrupt, fuel sky high, Atlas not being on the IOSA registry, economies slowing down world wide. What makes everyone think there outfit is special? AAWWH management would shut down in a minute if the profits keep going south. Then they will open up under a different name, non-union, pay peanuts and shut down again the first time anyone squawks. Why anyone wants to play footsie with those yahoos is beyond me. They are NOT your friend, and don't ever think they are.
Companies going bankrupt, fuel sky high, Atlas not being on the IOSA registry, economies slowing down world wide. What makes everyone think there outfit is special? AAWWH management would shut down in a minute if the profits keep going south. Then they will open up under a different name, non-union, pay peanuts and shut down again the first time anyone squawks. Why anyone wants to play footsie with those yahoos is beyond me. They are NOT your friend, and don't ever think they are.