5 tonnes , 500 metres , 5000 ft on a budget ?

[aseanaero]

"Here = Indonesia. Therefore; $$$$$$ + Big Brown Envelope = Job done. "

Very true in the 'old days'

The number of and thickness of the envelopes are getting ridiculous (or so I've heard) and people are getting arrested now especially when dealing with the military (some folks who didn't get envelopes can get a bit grumpy) so it's better to follow the process now but it can take 1 or 2 years

The Indonesians say 'ada gula ada samut' which means 'where there is sugar there is ants' but now the whole ant's nest turns up and eats you as well as the sugar

[newcomer]

How about using a Chinook?

[aseanaero]

Thanks Cargo and Old Fella

You're right , throw in some crap weather , narly crosswinds , aircraft problem or just having an off day and something's going to happen

There's enough wreckage around that part of the World to prove that even when the odds are on your side and you have a safety margin (not on the limit like this) something will come up and bite you

Trying to help an Indonesian buddy out with this 'equation' , their current aircraft won't do it and they've asked me if I can find something that can and its too hard , they need to lengthen the runway or use helis

Old Fella , out of interest how much runway does a fully loaded C130 need to take off ?

I watched an RAAF C130 take off from Surabaya late 2006 or early 2007 (it was accompanying a bunch of RAAF F-18s transiting from Singapore I think) , the Herc looked heavy and was using a fair bit of power just taxing , from memory it used probably 2/3rds of the 3,000m runway to get airborne

I did some time in a PC6 turbo porter with the little engine (PT6A-20 not the -27) and that thing was fun , with 2 people on board , cold day and 15 knots on the nose it would leap into the air with the shortest ground run I've ever experienced , it was crazy what you could do with that aircraft when it was cold and it was torque limited rather than temp limited on take off , it didn't like hot weather (40 plus deg C) with a full load though

[aseanaero]

Chinook = KeChing$$k

[dieselsix]

Too bad you don't have avgas, a C-46 could be perfect for the job.
The only other plane I can think of is a Bassler turbo DC-3, but 5 tonnes may be a bit much.

[international hog driver]

Dash 7,

I agree with one previous poster, Dash7 will do it without problems, built like tanks, serious stol capability, low initial cost, and they are already on the PK register with Pelita

[PK-KAR]

Dash7 in PK-Reg, there's Pelita, and someone else, I can't remember who. There's one operating Papua as well.

Add:

Here = Indonesia. Therefore; $$$$$$ + Big Brown Envelope = Job done.

With:

thinking of weird ideas like drogue parachutes deployed on touchdown out the back of the aircraft ramp

Try and "borrow" the Air Force's C130 *grin* I'm sure they like to practice LAPES if they can! LOL... someone has done it (without the LAPES)... regularly.

OK, I've heard these requirements before. Freight to Papua is lucrative, but damn right ridiculous in a lot of cases.

But, if the budget is 1 - 1.5 million, you can get a 5 million aircraft on a lease if you're crazy enough to bully a few banks... and it can pay itself back nicely.

Tell them to give it 1500m and then come back to you... If the 500m don't kill ya, the 5000ft elevation probably will, and is it a one way only airport with a vertical wall on the other side? (there's just too many of them around here).

I think your question just about comes up with one answer only, "Mission Impossible". Must assume you are talking about lifting 5000 Kg at a time into a 500 metre dirt airstrip at 5000' AMSL. Give the almost constant high temperatures in the area you allude to you are going to have a very high Density Altitude. Flew many times into PNG airfields at 5000' AMSL and higher in C130's. It can get exciting, even with 4000' of crushed coral runway at those sort of field elevations. BTW, a Caribou has a useful payload of around 4000 kgs and would be one of the few types I would even give a second glance.

5 tons in 1 go must be because the guy putting up the requirement doesn't want to get held up in weather. In Papua, it's guns ablaze until midday, then put the plane in the shed and go to the bar... coz the clouds have moved in.

PK-KAR

[Coleman Myers]

STOL need

Have you ever considered the DHC5-A ?. There is a guy here with them and they are fairly robust and capable plus the crew are excellent. Let me know.CM

[elobeid]

MI26 good option to look at. Have used them if Northern Pakistan at altitude. 2x10 ton rotations day. Have return load ready and netted and forget about the landing. EMERCOM is a good operator.

[elobeid]

Better Option

On second thoughts consider Kamov 32. I have also used these at altitude in Pakistan. 5000kg longline underslung. 800km range. Much cheaper then MI26.

[jb2_86_uk]

S64 Skycrane?


Payload: 9000kg
Ceiling: 9000ft
Landing/Takoff Distance required: 0ft

Edit: Originally put S65! whoops

[elobeid]

$$$$

Skycrane cost would kill it. Mil or Kamov much cheaper

[islandflyer]

500 meters at 5.000 feet ... without a slope that is even a bit short for a Caravan. Pelita uses their DHC7 into Oksibil (4.000 feet, 900 meters) and I see them use around 700 meters every landing. Trigana tried their Caribou on a marginal strip and it is still there to tell the tale.
I am also wondering which of the runways that would be. Most I know are longer now. Why the 5 ton requirement? Are single pieces so heavy or is it just the "bigger is better" thought?
If you want some ideas, PM me with the location and I may be able to help.

[Phileas Fogg]

What's the cubic capacity of the 5 tons? If it's, for instance, 5 tons of ping-pong balls then it'll take something like a B747 to shift it!

[Leecj1]

My first post - yippeeee!!!
Howz about 2 smaller planes doing half the weight each?

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think the South Africans are still trying to sell their C-160 Transalls.
Could do the weight no probs not too sure about the 500m runway.
Certification might take a wee while, depending on the budget
I think they are kept in warm storage.
Balair/Red Cross used one into some shortish strips in Biafra a few years back.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[discus177]

I'm positive there was an operator in Indo operating the C-160 in the early / mid 2000s, not sure if the old girl is still operational or not, C-160 imo is capable, though 500m is a wee bit to short!

[Octane]

What an interesting thread! For some reason it made me read up on DC 3's and I found this:

http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc3throt/jato.jpg

Just what the doctor ordered!

Cheers

Octane

[Life's a Beech]

Thinking like my boss, my first thought was of Monty Python: Two Sheds.

Then I considered that this is even a bit short for a Shorts, as it were, even though your budget would cover the S360 twice over. However my boss's thinking, 'why use one large aircraft when two smaller will do the job more cheaply?', still stands. So I'm with Leecj1. I suspect this is a really tough call for one aircraft, but if you consider 2 with half the payload you might make it.

Having said that I wouldn't even operate into 500m at sea level and my payload is 1000 kg, so I'll leave that with a "good luck"!

[5 Greens]

What you need is a Bristol Freighter! 5500KG payload designed to fly into short jungle strips. There is one left that could be made airworthy, its in Canada.