Status of IL-76's in the European Union
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To TEX
Hi man. Do you really think all the US operators are/will be willing to fly to Iraq/Afg ? Yeah, not all of the former Soviet airframes have so-called "good" registration. What's more, I know someone with quite good and EU almost-compliant registration who carries lots of staff for the US Army in Iraq / Afg and doesn't have any real war insuarance at all !
So, it sounds like .... "No matter what aircraft do you operate - either Soviet old-buddy or quite new Boeing or Airbas or something else - it depends only on a company's management.....well plus it depends on who or where from those managers are."
One thing you have highlighted correctly - the Iraqi battle will be stalled once former Soviet Air Force's An-12s & IL-76s discontinue their flights to the region. 'Cause USAF is unable to feed their troops round the world effectively. And - yes - aircrews have ve-e-e-ry low salary packages.
So, it sounds like .... "No matter what aircraft do you operate - either Soviet old-buddy or quite new Boeing or Airbas or something else - it depends only on a company's management.....well plus it depends on who or where from those managers are."
One thing you have highlighted correctly - the Iraqi battle will be stalled once former Soviet Air Force's An-12s & IL-76s discontinue their flights to the region. 'Cause USAF is unable to feed their troops round the world effectively. And - yes - aircrews have ve-e-e-ry low salary packages.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The IL76 YL-LAK is registered in Latvia, and is operated by Inversija.This company has been operating IL76 aircraft with no incidents for over 25 years, and currently have three IL76 is their fleet - All 3 IL76 (YL-LAK, YL-LAL and YL-LAJ) have been on permanent lease to Adagold Aviation for over 5 years - The company has just changed its name of Adajet Aviation.
Latvia is part of the EU and all the aircraft of there register have to comply to JAR specifications. Therefore, IL76 are permitted to be registered in Latvia if they conform to the JAR specifications, and JAR ops 145 maintenance which in the case of Inversija they do.
The Inversija IL76's are also fitted with TCAS 3 and EGWPS, and the probably the best serviced and operated IL76 in the world. The Latvian CAA would never permit an aircraft that does not confirm to JAR specifications to be registered on their register, and they would not issue on going airworthyness certificates if the operators did not comply - Its that simple, and you can take your hat off to Inversija for being the only IL76 operators to comply with JAR regulations !!
Finally, yhey are the only IL76 type aicraft who have Design Bureau certification to carry 48 pax in front facing seats - Although many other IL76 operators have tried to obtain this certification they cant meet the stringent requirements laid down by the Design Bureau.
Latvia is part of the EU and all the aircraft of there register have to comply to JAR specifications. Therefore, IL76 are permitted to be registered in Latvia if they conform to the JAR specifications, and JAR ops 145 maintenance which in the case of Inversija they do.
The Inversija IL76's are also fitted with TCAS 3 and EGWPS, and the probably the best serviced and operated IL76 in the world. The Latvian CAA would never permit an aircraft that does not confirm to JAR specifications to be registered on their register, and they would not issue on going airworthyness certificates if the operators did not comply - Its that simple, and you can take your hat off to Inversija for being the only IL76 operators to comply with JAR regulations !!
Finally, yhey are the only IL76 type aicraft who have Design Bureau certification to carry 48 pax in front facing seats - Although many other IL76 operators have tried to obtain this certification they cant meet the stringent requirements laid down by the Design Bureau.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBR - there are no doubts that Inversija IL-76's are in a good condition.
The aircraft is however presented as being a combi-configured aircraft certIfied to carry 48 passengers on seats fitted on loose removable pallets. You say also that this combi-modification is approved by the Design Buro.
To have appoved such a modification the Design Buro will have issued an STC and type-certificate no doubt - which according to Design Buro sources they deny!!!!
To carry passengers in a cargo aircraft the passengers have to be seperated from the cargo by means of a 9-G cargo net or bulkhead.
Can you seriously confirm that this is the case with YL-LAK and that the Design Buro approved the aircraft's modification to install the 9-G barrier suitably into the aircraft's fuselage structure, and that it holds a Design Buro STC for this modification that was performed.
Let's take it one step at a time, if you have a "secret combi modification STC" how can your plane be JAR compliant?
The aircraft is however presented as being a combi-configured aircraft certIfied to carry 48 passengers on seats fitted on loose removable pallets. You say also that this combi-modification is approved by the Design Buro.
To have appoved such a modification the Design Buro will have issued an STC and type-certificate no doubt - which according to Design Buro sources they deny!!!!
To carry passengers in a cargo aircraft the passengers have to be seperated from the cargo by means of a 9-G cargo net or bulkhead.
Can you seriously confirm that this is the case with YL-LAK and that the Design Buro approved the aircraft's modification to install the 9-G barrier suitably into the aircraft's fuselage structure, and that it holds a Design Buro STC for this modification that was performed.
Let's take it one step at a time, if you have a "secret combi modification STC" how can your plane be JAR compliant?
Last edited by AAL; 17th Oct 2007 at 20:32.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you think the SANDF, British MOD and Australian Defence would use Inversijas aircraft if they have not been properly verified by the Design Bureau. The CAA's in all these countries have also verified that aircraft combi configuration and it is 100% compliant. Strange that you are a leading authority on IL76 aircraft and that all these CAA's dont know what they are doing. Firstly check out your facts before you make accusations 
Furthermore, I dont know where you get your information from, but it is complete rubbish !! The Inversija aircraft are fitted with a fixed 9G bulkhead, forward facing seats, invividual oxygen supply and the list goes on and on.
Finally, as mentioned before do you think the EU authorities would allow these aircraft to operate on their register and issue on going airworthyness certificates if they were not 100% EU compliant ? Once again you know better than them.
Go and pick on some other IL76 operator, but you are going to get no where here.
Furthermore, I dont know where you get your information from, but it is complete rubbish !! The Inversija aircraft are fitted with a fixed 9G bulkhead, forward facing seats, invividual oxygen supply and the list goes on and on.
Finally, as mentioned before do you think the EU authorities would allow these aircraft to operate on their register and issue on going airworthyness certificates if they were not 100% EU compliant ? Once again you know better than them.
Go and pick on some other IL76 operator, but you are going to get no where here.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBR, if you have a fixed bulkhead seperating the passenger compartment from the cargo maindeck - then how do you load the entire length of the cargo deck when not carrying passengers.
Do you then remove the the "fixed bulkhead"?
Therefore, make sure that you have a real 9-G cargo bulkhead, not some "secret- only one of a kind arranged under the table" - as it is clear that this matter and what a pax/cargo combi config and the requirements of what such a bulkhead should comprise, is not agreed or resolved yet.
Please also explain how a stage 2 aircraft can be JAR compliant! when it for that very reason can not operate in the EU.
Start talking the truth friend - soon we will publish photo's of your "bulkhead", regardless the Brit MOD, SANDF and Australian impressions of your aircraft and what you believe a bulkhead should be.
Do you then remove the the "fixed bulkhead"?
Therefore, make sure that you have a real 9-G cargo bulkhead, not some "secret- only one of a kind arranged under the table" - as it is clear that this matter and what a pax/cargo combi config and the requirements of what such a bulkhead should comprise, is not agreed or resolved yet.
Please also explain how a stage 2 aircraft can be JAR compliant!
when it for that very reason can not operate in the EU.Start talking the truth friend - soon we will publish photo's of your "bulkhead", regardless the Brit MOD, SANDF and Australian impressions of your aircraft and what you believe a bulkhead should be.
Last edited by AAL; 19th Oct 2007 at 04:14.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAL 
Once again you need to check your facts There are many stage two B737-200, B747-200 and B727's operating in Europe and they are regstered in Europe as well. IL76's are not permitted to operate in Western Europe because they are stage 2 and there noise levels are higher than the Boeing aircraft - This is the only reason !!
The Inversija aircraft have a fixed 9G bulkhead that has been inspected and approved by the Design Bureau. If you have any further concerns I suggest you contact the Design Bureau directly and raise your concerns, and send them your pictures.
Once again you need to check your facts There are many stage two B737-200, B747-200 and B727's operating in Europe and they are regstered in Europe as well. IL76's are not permitted to operate in Western Europe because they are stage 2 and there noise levels are higher than the Boeing aircraft - This is the only reason !! The Inversija aircraft have a fixed 9G bulkhead that has been inspected and approved by the Design Bureau. If you have any further concerns I suggest you contact the Design Bureau directly and raise your concerns, and send them your pictures.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBR, it is clear that you dont know what a fixed bulkhead is. Do you even know what any 9G cargo barrier is?
If you are so uncertain then how is it possible that the Design Buro and the authorities whose names you so readily drop are so easily convinced that your aircraft possesses one.
In your own words "it has a fixed 9-G cargo bulkhead" This would then imply that it is a permanent installation. Where in the cargo cabin/main cargo deck's length is this bulkhead then installed erected - that seperates the passenger area/section from the cargo floor/section?
Are you sure you know what you talking about and what such is/should be?
Enlighten the world - post schematic or picture of your one-of-kind "secret" Design Buro approved modification then there can be no argument and further debate.
Issue about your ops into Luanda earlier refered to could have been sincere mistake - and such detail and proof of your bulkhead approval and pax configuration can end debate right here - but if not, somewhere somehow you are going to be asked.
If you are so uncertain then how is it possible that the Design Buro and the authorities whose names you so readily drop are so easily convinced that your aircraft possesses one.
In your own words "it has a fixed 9-G cargo bulkhead" This would then imply that it is a permanent installation. Where in the cargo cabin/main cargo deck's length is this bulkhead then installed erected - that seperates the passenger area/section from the cargo floor/section?
Are you sure you know what you talking about and what such is/should be?
Enlighten the world - post schematic or picture of your one-of-kind "secret" Design Buro approved modification then there can be no argument and further debate.
Issue about your ops into Luanda earlier refered to could have been sincere mistake - and such detail and proof of your bulkhead approval and pax configuration can end debate right here - but if not, somewhere somehow you are going to be asked.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAL,
May I suggest you will send your suspicions and photos directly to Latvian CAA Operations Dept & Maintenance Dept (do you want their contact details?), and tell us the outcome.
Otherwise it really looks like personal vendetta and unsupported allegations.
May I suggest you will send your suspicions and photos directly to Latvian CAA Operations Dept & Maintenance Dept (do you want their contact details?), and tell us the outcome.
Otherwise it really looks like personal vendetta and unsupported allegations.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CargoOne, for aircraft to compete on an equal playingfield the ground must be level. I am sure you will agree.
It does not help if one claims to have a secret Design Buro approved Passenger/Cargo configuration that allegedly complies with manufacturers and JAR requirements, when all it is in fact are a number of pallets with seats bolted to it and no 9-G barrier seperating the cargo and passengers.
On an earlier post the FO of YL-LAK said "only technical cargo handlers fly on the aircraft in this fashion". SBR now says that they have 48 Design Buro approved forward facing passenger seats fitted in the aircraft, with a Design Buro "fixed 9-G" bulkhead seperating the passenger cabin from the cargo deck. - RUBBISH!!!!.
These people fly in this fashion one day - and on the next with the full length of their main cargo deck loaded and filled with cargo. How do they randomly and at will remove and install a "fixed" bulkhead.
He even boasts that this arrangement is approved by the British MOD, Australian Government and the South African Defence Force.
Only Fools and Horses will believe that an IL-76 can be certified and a JAR acceptable STC issued for that. It further boggles the mind that the EU which stands so critical about aircraft from other countries will consider such an aircraft JAR compliant and approve and tolerate the airline's claim.
Inversija is also VERY secretive about this Design Approval. The reason is because it cant be verified - and yes have done my homework, the Design Buro is also puzzled by this claim.
Lastly - if you are not interested and dont agree with the debate, please dont frequent the thread. So simple - or are you also involved with this crowd?
It does not help if one claims to have a secret Design Buro approved Passenger/Cargo configuration that allegedly complies with manufacturers and JAR requirements, when all it is in fact are a number of pallets with seats bolted to it and no 9-G barrier seperating the cargo and passengers.
On an earlier post the FO of YL-LAK said "only technical cargo handlers fly on the aircraft in this fashion". SBR now says that they have 48 Design Buro approved forward facing passenger seats fitted in the aircraft, with a Design Buro "fixed 9-G" bulkhead seperating the passenger cabin from the cargo deck. - RUBBISH!!!!.
These people fly in this fashion one day - and on the next with the full length of their main cargo deck loaded and filled with cargo. How do they randomly and at will remove and install a "fixed" bulkhead.
He even boasts that this arrangement is approved by the British MOD, Australian Government and the South African Defence Force.
Only Fools and Horses will believe that an IL-76 can be certified and a JAR acceptable STC issued for that. It further boggles the mind that the EU which stands so critical about aircraft from other countries will consider such an aircraft JAR compliant and approve and tolerate the airline's claim.
Inversija is also VERY secretive about this Design Approval. The reason is because it cant be verified - and yes have done my homework, the Design Buro is also puzzled by this claim.
Lastly - if you are not interested and dont agree with the debate, please dont frequent the thread. So simple - or are you also involved with this crowd?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latvia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAL, it looks like you are the one of a kind who can regulate the EU laws. If AC is certified to operate by JAR regulations what else do you need?
As mentioned before you has a personal vendetta. And as I was telling before spend your time to check over the internet for the further invormation about IL-76 in EU.
As far as I can see you have a problem with acceptance of facts!!!!
As mentioned before you has a personal vendetta. And as I was telling before spend your time to check over the internet for the further invormation about IL-76 in EU.
As far as I can see you have a problem with acceptance of facts!!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LAK, between yourself and SBR you have badly contradicted yourselves about this claimed Combi configuration of your aircraft.
You may have whitewashed your clients up to now about it but you have not given a straight simple answer.
Point is and remains - if your modification is not legal then you and your regulatory authority are in big trouble with the EU Aviation Regulatory Authority.
I am sure that unlike one or two of your sympathisers posting here on your behalf - the authorities will also be paying close attention.
My facts are straight, plain, and simple, while it appears you have a problem with the English language:
1. You landed in Luanda while only in possesion of overflight clearance to somewhere north of Angola - while you called for and requested a technical landing but with cargo consigned for Luanda - FACT!!!!
2. Explain your "FIXED" cargo bulkhead that seperates your cargo deck from the passenger cabin!!!!! - that you remove between flights and convert from pax/cargo combi to cargo randomly at will. Do you know and understand the meaning and implication of a fixed cargo bulkhead; do you know what a cargo bulkhead is at all?
You may have whitewashed your clients up to now about it but you have not given a straight simple answer.
Point is and remains - if your modification is not legal then you and your regulatory authority are in big trouble with the EU Aviation Regulatory Authority.
I am sure that unlike one or two of your sympathisers posting here on your behalf - the authorities will also be paying close attention.
My facts are straight, plain, and simple, while it appears you have a problem with the English language:
1. You landed in Luanda while only in possesion of overflight clearance to somewhere north of Angola - while you called for and requested a technical landing but with cargo consigned for Luanda - FACT!!!!
2. Explain your "FIXED" cargo bulkhead that seperates your cargo deck from the passenger cabin!!!!! - that you remove between flights and convert from pax/cargo combi to cargo randomly at will. Do you know and understand the meaning and implication of a fixed cargo bulkhead; do you know what a cargo bulkhead is at all?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAL,
No, I'm not affilated in any way with Inversija. Just used their aircraft on charter a couple of years ago.
Now, I can tell you one thing - you are deninately not aware about JAR (exactly which JAR, by the way, you mean?) and Soviet-built aircraft situation. It is not that straight and easy.
However I smell a commercial reason (ie competition) as the background of your allegations. So it is your word against Inversija people words. If you are so worried about flight safety, please proceed to Latvian CAA and EASA and tell them your facts. I'm 100% sure they will not miss your signal.
No, I'm not affilated in any way with Inversija. Just used their aircraft on charter a couple of years ago.
Now, I can tell you one thing - you are deninately not aware about JAR (exactly which JAR, by the way, you mean?) and Soviet-built aircraft situation. It is not that straight and easy.
However I smell a commercial reason (ie competition) as the background of your allegations. So it is your word against Inversija people words. If you are so worried about flight safety, please proceed to Latvian CAA and EASA and tell them your facts. I'm 100% sure they will not miss your signal.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAL seems to have a connection to Silverback which may be the reason for his personal vendetta ?? he seems to be the self appointed consience of Pprune 
Is there not a DC8 operator in the US that operates thier a/c in the pax/frt combi role including regular US military contracts ?
Is there not a DC8 operator in the US that operates thier a/c in the pax/frt combi role including regular US military contracts ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kamapala
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear dionysis,
A DC-8 can hardly perform what an IL-76 can and definately not in same class. Sorry to dissapoint, IL-76 is a brilliant aircraft!
I also dont wish to be or assume any role of self-appointed conscience of PPrune and believe I have made my point so prefer to let the matter rest.
Flywell!
A DC-8 can hardly perform what an IL-76 can and definately not in same class. Sorry to dissapoint, IL-76 is a brilliant aircraft!
I also dont wish to be or assume any role of self-appointed conscience of PPrune and believe I have made my point so prefer to let the matter rest.
Flywell!
Top Dog
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Close to FACT
Age: 55
Posts: 2,098
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to let the matter rest
