Polar/atlas Merger Unfair
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Pontius Prater
So when both sides prattled into Prater’s office, what did you guys expect him to do? New guy on campus, still trying to find the executive was room, was suppose to referee differences between Atlas and Polar and maintain balance in the National realm I guess; so much for the honeymoon period.
I’m not really sure of the significance of demanding forty months, but it seems to be pretty darned important to the Polar side. So correct me if I’m wrong, I have not doubt someone will, but this whole merger thing for you folks is going to wind up in arbitration for a combined CBA right? So there’s finally an agreed upon follow the flying or work time limit set, and your company says in arbitration, well no, and the arbitrator says agreed, then what?
I’m not really sure of the significance of demanding forty months, but it seems to be pretty darned important to the Polar side. So correct me if I’m wrong, I have not doubt someone will, but this whole merger thing for you folks is going to wind up in arbitration for a combined CBA right? So there’s finally an agreed upon follow the flying or work time limit set, and your company says in arbitration, well no, and the arbitrator says agreed, then what?
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There is an old adage in arbitration, "We're not happy until your not happy"and that is what will ultimately happen. Polar wants 40 months, Atlas wants 12, somewhere in the middle is where it will end up and no one will be happy. In the meantime, a lot of Polaroids are making a lot of money for sitting home. It can't last.
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There is an old adage in arbitration, "We're not happy until your not happy"and that is what will ultimately happen.
Polar wants 40 months, Atlas wants 12,
somewhere in the middle is where it will end up and no one will be happy.
In the meantime, a lot of Polaroids are making a lot of money for sitting home. It can't last.
See the problem is that Polar has changed their tune somewhat. Prior to the announcement of the mergerd list (which Polar thinks is just as bad for the Polar pilots as Atlas does for themselves) Polar was all for a merger. In fact in one of his VARS messages Bobb accused Atlas negotiators of dragging their feet, which is exactly what Polar is now doing. They are throwing roadblocks in front of the merger process - and the 40 months FTF is just the latest. They don't really care about follow the flying. The reason they will not negotiate it is because they want to delay the merger until they can find yet another grievance to file, or find a sympathetic judge or arbitrator who will agree with them on their scope language.
In my opinion Plan B has only begun. The rest of it will be worse than the already announced re-furloughs. This is brinksmanship at its worst. I just hope the Polar guys all have jobs when Bobb is done with his game.
Isn't it time to get on board, finish this thing and all work together?
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 30th Mar 2007 at 15:53.
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Atlas Hiring?
A buddy of mine just received a call from Atlas asking if he was still interested in a job. He interviewed October 2005! How can Atlas do this when Polar guys are out of a job? I thought the Sen. list was integrated and Polar pilots would be offered a job first. "The more things change..the more they stay the same" Atlas Vs Polar Vs AABO Vs Cato.......
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They do this because Polar (Bobb, or more correctly Robin) has indicated by words as well as actions that he does not want to merge. While I would love to blame the company for this one, it is simply not true. If you are a Polar pilot and have a problem with this action then I suggest you call Bobb.
This is only the beggining of Plan B. Expect much more Atlas scheduled flying. Expect a grievance or lawsuit by the company against ALPOlar soon for non-compliance.
Winning the battles (ARbitration) while losing the war (integration) was NOT a good idea.
This is only the beggining of Plan B. Expect much more Atlas scheduled flying. Expect a grievance or lawsuit by the company against ALPOlar soon for non-compliance.
Winning the battles (ARbitration) while losing the war (integration) was NOT a good idea.
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Tiger Guy
Beaver Driver, just to clarify things 40 months was never in the mix. Polar was 5 years then down to 3 years finally agreed on Capt. Praters 21 months.
I understand the Atlas MEC is hung on the 12 months and wont move to the 21 which would get the merger under way.
I understand the Atlas MEC is hung on the 12 months and wont move to the 21 which would get the merger under way.
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This place is a mess?
I bet all you have ever done is complain. The solution is to work at making it better or quit! Most airlines have peculiar problems as does Atlas Air/Polar Air. There are many jobs open world wide, you may qualify since you are such an expert!
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NOPE
Beaver Driver, just to clarify things 40 months was never in the mix. Polar was 5 years then down to 3 years finally agreed on Capt. Praters 21 months.
I understand the Atlas MEC is hung on the 12 months and wont move to the 21 which would get the merger under way.
I understand the Atlas MEC is hung on the 12 months and wont move to the 21 which would get the merger under way.
'' After several hours of discussions, it remained apparent that Polar decided that they could not move forward unless we agree to a “follow the work” provision that as previously stated was rejected by Arbitrator Harris. Even though we had previously offered a 12 month allowance (to follow the merger process) for the “follow the work” provision, in an attempt to keep the process moving forward, Polar demanded 40 months, and only after a great deal of mediation by ALPA and Captain Prater. We rejected these terms and adjourned but agreed to continue to work towards resolution.
Today, after seeking further counsel from our Merger attorney, we have finally determined that we cannot agree to any “follow the work” provision and have also withdrawn our original offer of 12 months. To that end, we believe that if we were to agree to such a “follow the work” provision we would be in direct conflict with the Harris Arbitration ruling and such an agreement would not be in the best interest of our Crew Member’s or ALPA."
As you can see, Atlas gave in to Polar's wishes for up to 12 months to cover the period of the merger. Once they realized that this was only a roadblock to the merger process. They withdrew even that offer.
Polar doesn't really care about the follow the work. These are all old time 121 guys and they know this drill well. What they are doing is to put roadblocks in the way of the merger in hopes that something will happen to prevent it. We call this throwing s___t against the wall in hopes that something will stick.
This might all be semantics - 40 months is a little over three years. So if you are hearing things in "Green-Turtle-Cay" language the three years makes sense.
But Prater never did get them to 21 months.
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I bet all you have ever done is complain. The solution is to work at making it better or quit! Most airlines have peculiar problems as does Atlas Air/Polar Air. There are many jobs open world wide, you may qualify since you are such an expert!
Thanks for that Reverend FAL, dont`trip climbing down from the pulpit!
Thanks for that Reverend FAL, dont`trip climbing down from the pulpit!
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two sides to every lie
Let me guess, just because you heard it on an Atlas Vars then it makes it a fact? There will always be two sides (lies) to every story, so you might be so quick to accept only the side you want to here. 
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I think that's the point. One group of pilots is being lied to and this effects both MEC's, because there begins to be doubts on the minds of both groups. Is it my MEC thats the liar? This isn't the first time we've had dueling VARS, where one is 180 degrees out from the other. At some point, ALPA National has to step in and publicly censure the guilty party, just to clear the name of the other MEC.
If it's both MEC's stretching the truth in their direction and the result appears to be lies, then both MEC's need to cease and desist!
Cato and company are loving it..................
If it's both MEC's stretching the truth in their direction and the result appears to be lies, then both MEC's need to cease and desist!
Cato and company are loving it..................
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The Truth
Let me guess, just because you heard it on an Atlas Vars then it makes it a fact? There will always be two sides (lies) to every story, so you might be so quick to accept only the side you want to here.
So Bobb's assertion on the Polar VARS about being 5 months apart (not sure how 12+5=21 must be that NEW math) is PURE BOVINE SCAT. There never was a 21 month deal from right now. There was a "possibility" of 12 months from a certain date and Polar was fighting for 40 months from that date. The 21 months suggested by other parties was after new CBA signing and integration.
So you figure it out. Would you rather be told the WHOLE truth or listen to Bobbs slanted approach to the truth?
Once again this is all BS and all a delaying tactic. Once the egg is scrambled there is no way to unscramble it. So why is this such a big deal Bobb?
Bobb isn't it time to get on board? Isn't it time to finish this merger so we can go forward together and make something out of this pigs ear? If you continue to shade the truth you will lose the war - if you haven't already. It is time to unite under one banner and go forward. You owe it to the pilots you have left to negotiate in good faith as you said you would. The clock is ticking on the one year timeline. Lets quit the childish games and settle down and negotiate like professionals.
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 3rd Apr 2007 at 20:02.
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Keep chummin the water beav, maybe you'll get a bite...
By the by, the last time I heard the phrase "...throw enought $hit against the wall and maybe some will stick..." Jim Cato said it in his office. Kinda odd...
(By the way, ALL of it stuck.)
YOU have a good day now, hear?
CPTvac
By the by, the last time I heard the phrase "...throw enought $hit against the wall and maybe some will stick..." Jim Cato said it in his office. Kinda odd...
(By the way, ALL of it stuck.)
YOU have a good day now, hear?
CPTvac
