Do many frieght airlines ignore seniority for upgrade?
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Do many frieght airlines ignore seniority for upgrade?
Freight airlines-pardon my typos. This is the case at one US company which operates single and twin-engine turboprops. This includes leaving fourth-years FOs in the right seat and hiring OUTSIDE guys to be captains, even if the outsiders have no experience in the aircraft....This is a non-union operation.
The company saves money, because the outside guys are only paid first-year captain pay, versus fourth or fifth-year pay for the more senior and experienced FOs. One such fourth-year FO whom I know fairly well, was trained and 'typed' on a different aircraft (employer spent money), which the company does not yet operate at some bases-no certificate. They apparently have no interest in pilot morale, but there are few pilot jobs to go to anywhere else. This buddy told me over some tennis balls that he is finished with flying, being taken advantage of (fini, hat die Nase voll), and is not so young anymore.
Years ago, Kalitta, a different company, was reportedly similar in its view of using seniority on the DC-8.
The company saves money, because the outside guys are only paid first-year captain pay, versus fourth or fifth-year pay for the more senior and experienced FOs. One such fourth-year FO whom I know fairly well, was trained and 'typed' on a different aircraft (employer spent money), which the company does not yet operate at some bases-no certificate. They apparently have no interest in pilot morale, but there are few pilot jobs to go to anywhere else. This buddy told me over some tennis balls that he is finished with flying, being taken advantage of (fini, hat die Nase voll), and is not so young anymore.
Years ago, Kalitta, a different company, was reportedly similar in its view of using seniority on the DC-8.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 20th Jan 2005 at 04:17.
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Yes, and Connie was rather smart as well.
He often mentioned that if any union gave him any 'problem' whatsoever, he would fold/sell the company, and start afresh.
And so he did.
It would seem to me however, that F/O's should be rewarded with upgrades, provided they meet the criteria for same, and of course are able to pass the required checks.
For a small company, that intends to grow to a much larger one in a rather short period of time, direct entry Captains offers a way to bring experience on board rather quickly, without disrupting the flying schedule...and, as pointed out, is generally cheaper.
And 'cheaper' is what drives nearly every airline today.
He often mentioned that if any union gave him any 'problem' whatsoever, he would fold/sell the company, and start afresh.
And so he did.
It would seem to me however, that F/O's should be rewarded with upgrades, provided they meet the criteria for same, and of course are able to pass the required checks.
For a small company, that intends to grow to a much larger one in a rather short period of time, direct entry Captains offers a way to bring experience on board rather quickly, without disrupting the flying schedule...and, as pointed out, is generally cheaper.
And 'cheaper' is what drives nearly every airline today.
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Upgrading out of seniority/hiring off the street into the left seat was one of the many things that got the union in place at Kalitta.
With the first contract, we had a sort of "lets take a look and see" attitude. If the upgrade commitee said no to someone, they had the option of going through with it, but then the company had the option of terminating you if you failed. if the person made it, no big deal.
Now, its a straight seniority deal, there is a bid posted, and who ever bids, is awarded in seniority if they meet the minimum requirements.
We have come along way in our company, and whoever might badmouth our union, I just remind them about our working conditions in the early 90's and suggest that they recind all working conditions to what they had back then. They usually become quiet.
Life here is much better than it was, but could still be a whole lot better than it is.
With the first contract, we had a sort of "lets take a look and see" attitude. If the upgrade commitee said no to someone, they had the option of going through with it, but then the company had the option of terminating you if you failed. if the person made it, no big deal.
Now, its a straight seniority deal, there is a bid posted, and who ever bids, is awarded in seniority if they meet the minimum requirements.
We have come along way in our company, and whoever might badmouth our union, I just remind them about our working conditions in the early 90's and suggest that they recind all working conditions to what they had back then. They usually become quiet.
Life here is much better than it was, but could still be a whole lot better than it is.
