UPS to hire 100 pilots
UPS to hire 100 pilots
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Just posted!
Here is the link if you are interested in applying.
http://www.upsjobs.com/cgi-bin/job-s.../job-show.html
Here is the link if you are interested in applying.
http://www.upsjobs.com/cgi-bin/job-s.../job-show.html
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flyin freight with low hours
hi all,
just wonder if freight airlines ever take on people whom just got their fatpl? ..i havent got mine yet but am working on it..
good luck all
beny
just wonder if freight airlines ever take on people whom just got their fatpl? ..i havent got mine yet but am working on it..
good luck all
beny
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That's the $ 10,000 hot potato question? It will depend on both the open skies negotiations, the upcoming US Presidential elections and multiple other factors. It is not without merit to envision that UPS sometime in the future will be operating/owning UPS Airlines Europe.
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Iflyforcash: That's the $ 10,000 hot potato question? It will depend on both the open skies negotiations, the upcoming US Presidential elections and multiple other factors. It is not without merit to envision that UPS sometime in the future will be operating/owning UPS Airlines Europe
If they do, it will be flown by IPA pilots.
If they do, it will be flown by IPA pilots.
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Look at Neil Armstrongs reply again.
Non EU citizens will only be able to get a work permit/residence if the employer can prove that it is not possible to get the positions filled by qualified EU citizens. Hardly the case at the moment.
It is pretty naive to believe that IPA can muscle EU regulations on own turf...not unless they are accompanied by the marines!
Non EU citizens will only be able to get a work permit/residence if the employer can prove that it is not possible to get the positions filled by qualified EU citizens. Hardly the case at the moment.
It is pretty naive to believe that IPA can muscle EU regulations on own turf...not unless they are accompanied by the marines!
Last edited by Aerosmith; 2nd Nov 2004 at 12:13.
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6000PIC,
I know the US system very well!!
The unions tell the goverment and company's how to do things !
They have been able to get away with it for some years in Europe but people in are getting fed up by the unfair competition!
We are not allowed to fly in the US so why would US carriers be allowed to fly here?
there are a lot of unemployed pilots in europe (i know the US has the same problem) and as Aerosmith already said they must be looked at first before non Europeans can go for the job!
I know that a lot of rated pilots from other freight outfits cant wait to see the package UPS has to offer!
Neil
I know the US system very well!!
The unions tell the goverment and company's how to do things !
They have been able to get away with it for some years in Europe but people in are getting fed up by the unfair competition!
We are not allowed to fly in the US so why would US carriers be allowed to fly here?
there are a lot of unemployed pilots in europe (i know the US has the same problem) and as Aerosmith already said they must be looked at first before non Europeans can go for the job!
I know that a lot of rated pilots from other freight outfits cant wait to see the package UPS has to offer!
Neil
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All you Euro's need to quit dreaming, there will be no UPS Airlines Europe or any such thing. UPS will continue to expand in Europe and those routes will be flown by IPA pilots on every route that we have governmental authority to operate. You might be able to get a job with Star of some other local contractor flying routes we don't have authority to operate, but you will never be working directly for UPS.
Besides, FedEx is opening a Zurich domicile for it's crews, it will be staffed with American pilots. I don't hear you Euros bitching about that, and it's right in your own backyard? UPS has no plans for a European domicile.
Besides, FedEx is opening a Zurich domicile for it's crews, it will be staffed with American pilots. I don't hear you Euros bitching about that, and it's right in your own backyard? UPS has no plans for a European domicile.
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Browntailwhale
You may be right at the moment, but very soon the EU will be asking you something like 'which part of no don't you understand'. I'm sure a deal can be brokered; simply allow JAR licensed pilots to operate EU registered aircraft in continental US, the same way FAA licensed pilots operating N-reg's in EU does. While the EU is very far from being a single country, it is a single market and the rules will be enforced.
Since the chances of JAR pilots poling EU registered aircraft in the US are somewhere between zero and f.all, you may safely stick your IPA dreams where the sun doesn't shine. If UPS will want to operate their own metal in the EU; no problem. Hire JAR licensed crew with the right to live and work in the EU and do so on EU registered airframes. Or they may outsource the lot to airlines like Star. As a previous poster told you, UPS will have to prove to the EU that pilots is a rare breed to find and hire, and if you belive that'll swim through legislation then I've got a french tower up for sale you might be interested in.
It remains to be seen what the EU postion will be for operations between non-EU and EU countrires, and indeed between EU and EFTA countries. It is not outside the realms of possibility that EFTA countries will be asked to follow the EU rules (which is very often the case already) especially since most EFTA countries are also JAR. That basically leaves you with Switzerland, which is not an EU or EFTA country. FedEx would probably be able to operate N-regs between CDG and ZRH, but not intra-EU. You are telling us that is worth creating a base for? Perhaps in the short term, but certainly not long term if the aim is for that base to perform European flying. The EU is, by the way, expanding and encompasses most of the continent already. Your IPA future, in other words, could very well be CGN to ZRH and MOW and not much else. Does that sound sustainable to you?
Your idea that different rules applies is, while still valid, about as sustainable as snow on a hot summers day. You may choose to ignore this with the arrogance some Americans are so sadly infamous for, but that won't change facts.
Sorry to burst your bubble by the way.
Since the chances of JAR pilots poling EU registered aircraft in the US are somewhere between zero and f.all, you may safely stick your IPA dreams where the sun doesn't shine. If UPS will want to operate their own metal in the EU; no problem. Hire JAR licensed crew with the right to live and work in the EU and do so on EU registered airframes. Or they may outsource the lot to airlines like Star. As a previous poster told you, UPS will have to prove to the EU that pilots is a rare breed to find and hire, and if you belive that'll swim through legislation then I've got a french tower up for sale you might be interested in.
It remains to be seen what the EU postion will be for operations between non-EU and EU countrires, and indeed between EU and EFTA countries. It is not outside the realms of possibility that EFTA countries will be asked to follow the EU rules (which is very often the case already) especially since most EFTA countries are also JAR. That basically leaves you with Switzerland, which is not an EU or EFTA country. FedEx would probably be able to operate N-regs between CDG and ZRH, but not intra-EU. You are telling us that is worth creating a base for? Perhaps in the short term, but certainly not long term if the aim is for that base to perform European flying. The EU is, by the way, expanding and encompasses most of the continent already. Your IPA future, in other words, could very well be CGN to ZRH and MOW and not much else. Does that sound sustainable to you?
Your idea that different rules applies is, while still valid, about as sustainable as snow on a hot summers day. You may choose to ignore this with the arrogance some Americans are so sadly infamous for, but that won't change facts.
Sorry to burst your bubble by the way.
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Not bursting my bubble pal. UPS already has an extensive european network crewed with IPA crews, plus a few routes that we dont' currently operate due to various factors.
I'd have no problem with you guys coming over here and flying all you wanted. It would have no effect on IPA crewmembers as all domestic flying for UPS must be flown by IPA crews, so maybe you could try and pick up some DHL work or pax stuff.
Don't think for even a second that FedEx would go to the trouble of opening a domicile in Zurich with only authority to operate to a few routes. They obviously have big plans to expand in europe (many recent news articles on that) and it will involve their own crews flying those new routes.
I'd have no problem with you guys coming over here and flying all you wanted. It would have no effect on IPA crewmembers as all domestic flying for UPS must be flown by IPA crews, so maybe you could try and pick up some DHL work or pax stuff.
Don't think for even a second that FedEx would go to the trouble of opening a domicile in Zurich with only authority to operate to a few routes. They obviously have big plans to expand in europe (many recent news articles on that) and it will involve their own crews flying those new routes.
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Browntail
I'm not argueing that FedUP already operate a large N-reg'd fleet on intra-European routes. What I and others are saying is that practice will not be allowed to continue indefinatly. I suppose this is where we disagree, and whilst I appreciate you not having any problems with us Euros operating domestically in the US, I somehow feel that your House on the Hill will have a slightly different opinion.
As you probably know, FedEx and UPS are taking turns hauling DHL before the courts, disputing their ownership and their right to operate domestically in the US, even if it is with FAA crews and N-regs. If you appreciate that situation, try to reverse it and you might understand how us Euros feel about FedEx and UPS operating intra-EU, even if they were to place their metal on a EU register. To add injury to insult, they're bloody doing it at present on N-regs.
So, either the rules apply equally to both, or they don't. Simple as that, and that is what the EU will let US carriers know in the (hopefully) not too distant future. Please also bear in mind that the days where the US negotiated traffic rights with each individual EU country is also fast becoming a thing of the past. If it wasn't for that 'little' detail knows as London Heathrow it would already be the case that all negotiations would be between the US and the EU. In other words, the US will no longer be able to play one country against the other.
As you probably know, FedEx and UPS are taking turns hauling DHL before the courts, disputing their ownership and their right to operate domestically in the US, even if it is with FAA crews and N-regs. If you appreciate that situation, try to reverse it and you might understand how us Euros feel about FedEx and UPS operating intra-EU, even if they were to place their metal on a EU register. To add injury to insult, they're bloody doing it at present on N-regs.
So, either the rules apply equally to both, or they don't. Simple as that, and that is what the EU will let US carriers know in the (hopefully) not too distant future. Please also bear in mind that the days where the US negotiated traffic rights with each individual EU country is also fast becoming a thing of the past. If it wasn't for that 'little' detail knows as London Heathrow it would already be the case that all negotiations would be between the US and the EU. In other words, the US will no longer be able to play one country against the other.
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Bear in mind that UPS doesn´t have unrestricted grandfather rights to operate in Euroland. The present agreement only lacks a timeframe, and this will most certainly come.
American airlines has much greater room to maneuver under the open skies agreement, but it is pretty naive to believe that this a static situation. This WILL change, and IPA will have as much influence on this as Europeans had on a recent election in the old colonies.
American airlines has much greater room to maneuver under the open skies agreement, but it is pretty naive to believe that this a static situation. This WILL change, and IPA will have as much influence on this as Europeans had on a recent election in the old colonies.
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Very comprehensive and well-founded responses by Flip Flop Flyer, and my hearty concurrence with most he says. However my fear is that "While the EU is very far from being a single country, it is a single market and the rules will be enforced..", whilst being a correct statement technically, may be somewhat vulnerable to politics.
Everybody knows that the open-skies negotiations were put on hold pending the outcome of the US elections - presumably because De Palacio hoped for more reasonable terms from a new US administration. However with yesterday's results, it is likely the US negotiators will be back plying their extremely limited offer(as concerns EU freight haulers) with a vengeance = they've got a renewed mandate. The EU (read EU majors) really wants to get on with dispensation of the nationality clause, and now that it is apparent there will be no new US team to play against, might just decide to cave in on the issue of intra-europe N-reg serviced routes to achieve this. (at least currently sanctioned ones - and worst case, even some new ones - shock - horror).
Since the EU transport ministers handed over negotiating authority to the EC, traffic rights between individual Euro nation-states are no longer negotiated between the US and each individual state.
However, as I've always said, for the EU to receive equal treatment, it has to stand its ground - US carriers are nothing if not extremely competitive - something that the EU has yet to excel in - and insist on a level playing field, or let the US carriers run rampant over them. My fear is that the pent up desire to amalgamate various major EU carriers (AF, KLM, LH, etc...) may override a more sensible and long-term goal of achieving a settlement that serves the European aviation freight industry as well. As always, the pax market is unfortunately likely to dominate the legislative psyche.
Hope not, but...
Everybody knows that the open-skies negotiations were put on hold pending the outcome of the US elections - presumably because De Palacio hoped for more reasonable terms from a new US administration. However with yesterday's results, it is likely the US negotiators will be back plying their extremely limited offer(as concerns EU freight haulers) with a vengeance = they've got a renewed mandate. The EU (read EU majors) really wants to get on with dispensation of the nationality clause, and now that it is apparent there will be no new US team to play against, might just decide to cave in on the issue of intra-europe N-reg serviced routes to achieve this. (at least currently sanctioned ones - and worst case, even some new ones - shock - horror).
Since the EU transport ministers handed over negotiating authority to the EC, traffic rights between individual Euro nation-states are no longer negotiated between the US and each individual state.
However, as I've always said, for the EU to receive equal treatment, it has to stand its ground - US carriers are nothing if not extremely competitive - something that the EU has yet to excel in - and insist on a level playing field, or let the US carriers run rampant over them. My fear is that the pent up desire to amalgamate various major EU carriers (AF, KLM, LH, etc...) may override a more sensible and long-term goal of achieving a settlement that serves the European aviation freight industry as well. As always, the pax market is unfortunately likely to dominate the legislative psyche.
Hope not, but...
