747 nose cone
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Up there
747 nose cone
Hi all
This may sound like a very stupid question but here goes...
I know that some passenger aircraft are fitted with the ability of being able to take out the seats and for the aircraft to be then used as a cargo liner. So this got me thinking about the 747. On the 747's that were built for cargo companies the nose can be used as a loading point (the nose cone raises like a trapdoor).
So my question is....Are the passenger configured 747s fitted with the capability of raising the nose cone?
Sorry if this sounds ridiculous!
Thanks in advance
The foil
This may sound like a very stupid question but here goes...
I know that some passenger aircraft are fitted with the ability of being able to take out the seats and for the aircraft to be then used as a cargo liner. So this got me thinking about the 747. On the 747's that were built for cargo companies the nose can be used as a loading point (the nose cone raises like a trapdoor).
So my question is....Are the passenger configured 747s fitted with the capability of raising the nose cone?
Sorry if this sounds ridiculous!
Thanks in advance
The foil
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,204
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From: Seattle
No.
Some -200 freighters had nose doors fitted on conversion, and AFAIK all -400 freighters came out of the factory with them. However, -400 conversions will not have them, and no combis have them (the freight area is behind the passenger section).
Some -200 freighters had nose doors fitted on conversion, and AFAIK all -400 freighters came out of the factory with them. However, -400 conversions will not have them, and no combis have them (the freight area is behind the passenger section).
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: !!!
I think what you are saying is - have any 747F's been fitted out in a pax configuration. Strange one this as the evolution is normally the other way!!
There are the rock group carrying combi's, the only ones I am aware of are 707/DC8.
Seeker
There are the rock group carrying combi's, the only ones I am aware of are 707/DC8.
Seeker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 545
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From: Dunstable, Beds UK
Combi's were a popular flavour for a while as being the ultimate machine that let you have your cake and eat it
Over the years the rules for carrying fare paying pax in cargo aircraft has been modifed to the point that if you follow FAA/EU rules there are so many requirements and restrictions that it is not really economic.
Over the years the rules for carrying fare paying pax in cargo aircraft has been modifed to the point that if you follow FAA/EU rules there are so many requirements and restrictions that it is not really economic.
Joined: May 2000
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From: Seattle
Over the years the rules for carrying fare paying pax in cargo aircraft has been modifed to the point that if you follow FAA/EU rules there are so many requirements and restrictions that it is not really economic.
Granted, though, Asiana doesn't have to deal with the FAA or EU on Asia-only routes, and Alaska is a hotbed of FAA waivers and special rules...
Evertonian
Joined: May 2000
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From: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Polynesian runs, or used to run, a 733 combi 5W-ILF I think it was. Seemed strange to sit on a pallet of seats!
Most of the combis or QC's have the ability to switch roles relatively quickly. AZ used to have a 742 combi that changed it's config almost weekly. The main problem, I guess, with switching a 747F to pax would be all the running gear on the floor & PDU's etc. I suppose you could put seats on pallets, but you've got PDU controls along the walls, rickety stairs to the upper deck that would be useless if there were seats on pallets below etc, etc etc.
Remember, the 747 was a freighter by design, that was converted to a passenger carrier. And as the A380 enters service, there'll be a hell of a lot more 74F's running around.
Most of the combis or QC's have the ability to switch roles relatively quickly. AZ used to have a 742 combi that changed it's config almost weekly. The main problem, I guess, with switching a 747F to pax would be all the running gear on the floor & PDU's etc. I suppose you could put seats on pallets, but you've got PDU controls along the walls, rickety stairs to the upper deck that would be useless if there were seats on pallets below etc, etc etc.
Remember, the 747 was a freighter by design, that was converted to a passenger carrier. And as the A380 enters service, there'll be a hell of a lot more 74F's running around.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Europe
As far as I understand Aerofoil was asking regarding quick-change or convertables, not combis.
I never heard about 747 quick change (like 737QC), allowing to switch all-cargo to all-pax within an hour, using pallet-mounted seats and interior.
But there are convertable 747s, equipped with nose cargo door. And yes, they can be converted from pax to all-cargo and vice versa within few days (say 2-3 days). Martinair of Holland operating 2 such planes and ACTUALLY doing convertion depending of pax/cargo demand.
I never heard about 747 quick change (like 737QC), allowing to switch all-cargo to all-pax within an hour, using pallet-mounted seats and interior.
But there are convertable 747s, equipped with nose cargo door. And yes, they can be converted from pax to all-cargo and vice versa within few days (say 2-3 days). Martinair of Holland operating 2 such planes and ACTUALLY doing convertion depending of pax/cargo demand.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: ellx
Yep, the 200C was designed with that in mind. Transamerica had 3 (-271C), which Cargolux bought. They are now with Atlas/CAL (the CAL one was the one that went off the runway in LGG a couple of months ago).
The -C has the windows, the pax doors as well as NCD/SCD. Not many built.
The -C has the windows, the pax doors as well as NCD/SCD. Not many built.
Evertonian
Joined: May 2000
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From: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Interesting about the 742-C. What kind of stairs do they use to the upper deck? I guess they take out all the rails & PDU's huh? They must have lots of fun connecting the toilets & galleys. I suppose that would start to impact on the OEW too.
See, the things you learn on Freight Dogs! And some people reckon it's boring!
See, the things you learn on Freight Dogs! And some people reckon it's boring!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 545
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From: Dunstable, Beds UK
Yes it is important to differ between Combi's and QC's
The QC have very little legislative problem as they either comply with one set of rules or the other ( pax/freight)
I have worked with both DC QC and B737 QC and I have to tell you that this scheme is great on paper
A typical operation was night freight - Quick Change - Day time pax.
After some wear and tear the "QC" beocomes a mute point which manifests itself in larger hammers!
Also the interior gets beat to Sh1T and many manhours get spent getting all the pax stuff working.
Additional with weather and loading delays it was always a hassle to get the pax version on line in time.
Re Combis, On cargo aircraft there are certain requirements for the cargo compartments for fire access to the load and air shut off in the event of fire.
These requirements effectively double when you go combi.
You cannot shut all the air off to the cargo compartment as the pax need some of that
If you have extinguishers then you have to stop the pax getting a dose of that
On a wide bodied aircraft the pallets sit in two rows effectively touching in the middle (Well very close )
On combi there has to be acess for the crew to the load in flight that gives access to all sides so the pallet spacing has to be increased.
Of course as we mentioned above not all registers are so picky !
There is of course the 9G bulhead ( either solid or net) and usually the pax are at the back for both a load consideration and to prevent them wearing the cargo in the event of the crash.
As I said the rules have tightened considerably - When I was working in Africa on DC4 we just has a few rows of seats behind the cargo ! and the pax numbers could be adjusted to suit the cargo size !
The QC have very little legislative problem as they either comply with one set of rules or the other ( pax/freight)
I have worked with both DC QC and B737 QC and I have to tell you that this scheme is great on paper
A typical operation was night freight - Quick Change - Day time pax.
After some wear and tear the "QC" beocomes a mute point which manifests itself in larger hammers!
Also the interior gets beat to Sh1T and many manhours get spent getting all the pax stuff working.
Additional with weather and loading delays it was always a hassle to get the pax version on line in time.
Re Combis, On cargo aircraft there are certain requirements for the cargo compartments for fire access to the load and air shut off in the event of fire.
These requirements effectively double when you go combi.
You cannot shut all the air off to the cargo compartment as the pax need some of that
If you have extinguishers then you have to stop the pax getting a dose of that
On a wide bodied aircraft the pallets sit in two rows effectively touching in the middle (Well very close
)On combi there has to be acess for the crew to the load in flight that gives access to all sides so the pallet spacing has to be increased.
Of course as we mentioned above not all registers are so picky !
There is of course the 9G bulhead ( either solid or net) and usually the pax are at the back for both a load consideration and to prevent them wearing the cargo in the event of the crash.
As I said the rules have tightened considerably - When I was working in Africa on DC4 we just has a few rows of seats behind the cargo ! and the pax numbers could be adjusted to suit the cargo size !
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Gone from the FL sun to the desert Oasis
Just a point of clarification.
When B747's have been modified to become freighters,
it is the SCD(Side Cargo Door) that is added, I dont
know of any freighters where they actually added a
Nose load door. I think that is structurally impossible
to do
When B747's have been modified to become freighters,
it is the SCD(Side Cargo Door) that is added, I dont
know of any freighters where they actually added a
Nose load door. I think that is structurally impossible
to do
Top Dog
Joined: May 2000
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From: Close to FACT
Skyhawk, as someone who has been working with 200F/400F for the last 15 years, can confirm that the NCD is used. In fact, we use it on almost every flight.
I agree though, Boeing can add a nose door, though as you say, the cost is
I agree though, Boeing can add a nose door, though as you say, the cost is
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: tracy island
ratty-the nose issue is still debatable..atlas have offered scd to all their orginal acmi customers without much problem and we have used scd a/c ditto.. the nose is great for offsize but basically scd will do.. and apart from the antonovs i blve 747 is still the only nose loader built purposley (sic) and probably will remain so
unless the commercial c 17 takes off
happy christmas to all
unless the commercial c 17 takes off
happy christmas to all
