Pull your heads in
 

Guys I know this is a public forum, but some of the posts here are making Cathay Pacific out to be Cathay Pathetic.

Airing your dirty laundry really degrades all of you.

Why not get a private forum for the bashings etc.

What you all need to be doing now is pulling together.

Just a though

CX has a private forum on it's union's server. Unfortunately there are non-members of the union on this forum, ergo the dirty laundry.

Cprune is only available to AOA members....therefore 510 CX pilots cannot post there.

This therefore is their only forum/outlet for discussion AND the only forum for ALL CX pilots, CC and Staff.

747-400; you may be correct, but with regard to posts regarding the current industrial situation in HKG:

1. many of the posts are not from CX pilots but from potential recruits seeking clarification.

2. the outcome may well effect union/management relations globally. assuming youre at QF and given the australian history re:89, you may well be advised to keep your ear to the gnd.

747-400 F/O. I could not disagree more. There is absolutely nothing pathetic about exchanging thoughts on the only thing adversely affecting employment at CX. True some of the posts get a bit animated - for want of a better word - but that is understandable as emotions are high. TUF is right as this 'dispute' affects many more than are allowed access to Cprune. Free and fair exchange of ideas, what can be wrong with that?

The main reason I recently left the union was the great lack of
true anonimity on Cprune. If any anti AOA leadership opinions
were posted they were howled down. Followed by caustic
comments from members privy to the true names of posters on
this private forum. Cprune is a great part of the problems in
CX not part of the solution. Debate has been gagged on Cprune
by 49ers and the leadership of the AOA. The moderator himself
has done an upgrade and spills identities to his mates should
anyone have the temerity to cross the party line. Grow up boys,
and accept opinions that contradict yours.

the union boys fear the truth and opinions that counter their own, as most of their "strength " lies in bullying, and scare tactics, not clear, even-handed presentation of facts, particularly in the case of the recruitment ban, as all the facts bared makes the AoA look a bit hypocritical...so when somebody posts an opinion contrary to theirs either on this forum, or their own one, they become defensive and lash out with verbal abuse, and name calling....not factual counter-points.

IB57, I seem to remember that YOUR non factual counterpoints got you banned from Pprune until you promised to behave like a good little girl...... what exactly is your personal FACTUAL counterpoint to the sacking of the CX pilots, or is it time to get your panties down again.......?:rolleyes:

Quitting the Union
 

Phlaps 1:

I highly doubt that you quit the Union because of Cprune. If you were concerned about the anonimity on Cpurne, don?t use it. I believe there are other reasons for you quitting the Union. I can name them all, but doubt Cprune would be there.

Remember, opinions are like a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s, everybody has one. Why don?t you grow up and accept opinions that contradict yours.

TB

I think you may be missing the point here.

You so eloquently quoted one of lifeÕs great axiomsÉ

Perhaps you should also understand that the corollary is also true.

Not all who have differing opinions are a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s

Whilst cprune of itself may not be a primary reason for leaving the AOA, it certainly provides a less than anonymous platform for the bullying of minority opinion.

What you are saying is more than just any dissenters should accept opinions that contradict their own. You are suggesting, in addition, that they should also accept being denied one vehicle by which to express themelves within the AOA forum.

Unfortunately, it seems to my perhaps atrophying brain that this is further dividing the pilot body and making the AOA less able to advocate toward the middle ground. Indeed it is pushing them toward more desperate and secretive measures to exact some kind of face-saving solution to the 49Õer issue in order to show some forward progress.

The cockpit door is now firmly locked, physically and metaphorically. If we want to keep it that way, then I guess management wonÕt mind too much. It is really our choice.

There is a voice of reason out there, just ask the Canadian F/O who was recently allowed to retract his resignation. Indeed, I would submit that had there been an apology for the flying peanuts, the incident would have been forgotten and help provided.

Sure there are other cases that might suggest otherwise, but weeding out dissenters from the AOA by design or by attrition is surely counterintuitive.

At the risk of incoming from 6FU et al, further division serves only to make bitterness the master of all he pervades.

VR-HFX, the peanut launcher DID apologize, profoundly and frequently, to both the target and the DFO, and the only retort was the sack...swiftly and without any compassion.

If DT was less of a pathological pilot-hater I suspect the AOA and CX may be talking and the peanut-man may still be shouting a noisy beer or three in the gay bar.

Capt Y

Semantics.

DT is not the DFO nor, as I clearly understand it, was he the supposed target. He was however on the receiving end of launch but not the apology. As he is the CEO, I would feel he has every right to be upset. That the DFO was unable to fix this situation is all the more sad.

The last thing I would call DT is a pathological pilot hater. If our ex-colleague had gone upstairs the following morning he would still be shouting in the gay bar.

The fact that 50% of the new commanders choose not to avail themselves of the one-on-one meeting with him would tell me that more than a few are pathological management haters.


FWIW.

VR:

Agreed. Not all who have differing opinions are a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s

The guys on Cprune know how Cathay Pacific Airways treat its employees. For those guys that get on there and say drop everything and CX will talk don't know the character of Cathay Pacific Management. Look how they negotiate with the cabin crew, ground crew, and flight crew. They talk for awhile, get all the information they can, try to figure what you will accept without doing anything, walk out of talks stating your group is unreasonable and force a contract on you.

So when someone states otherwise on Cprune the guys are all over them like white on rice. They are a strong bunch. Agreed some of the guys get emotional, but that is expected.

What about the Canadian Captain that just got demoted while talking industrial stuff while sitting in the jumpseat? Seems if we have a different opinion than the company, they will intimidate you to no end. Great way to run an outfit. Another great way to treat a fellow employee.

What about the Captain the FREAKS OUT, yes freaks out, at F/O's for having a yellow pen in his shirt. This Captain continues to FREAK OUT while in the cockpit clearing creating a Flight Safety hazard. Anything being done about this. Yes there is, the F/O is getting called into the office for an informal chat. Seems reasonable to me.

Cathay Pacific Management should be running a bush operation, because that is what it is turning out to be "A Bush Operation with 747's". The only reason they make money is because of their location.

Phlaps 1:

And Turbo-Beavers top eight reasons for quitting the Union are:

REASON 1: I can't afford the dues.

REASON 2: I don't believe in unions.

REASON 3: I don't need to be a member. I get everything that members get without paying the dues.

REASON 4: Who needs the Union? What has it ever done for me?

REASON 5: I don't like so and so.

REASON 6: The union is just here to get troublemakers out of the trouble they deserve to be in.

REASON 7: I don't want anything to do with the union. I'm trying to get promoted to boss.

REASON 8: I went to the union with a problem and didn't get any satisfaction.


Any the only excuse you can come up with is " Guys gang up on me when I post on Cpurne".

Traffic:

Point taken. I should say that in my numerous contacts with DT he has never come across as a "people-person" and what talents he has in fiscal control are not matched in personality. He projects a dour, authoritarian arrogance rather than the openness and gregarious nature of his predecessors, something which is not conducive to a line of new commanders forming outside his office in an anxious wait to shake his hand.

Now the soap-box bit:

None of the past nine years shenanigans has been the consequence of a one-sided pig-headedness. If Mr. T wants to go down in the books alongside PS and RE the vehicle to achieve it is staring him in the face. It will take a giant to take the first step to conciliation, and all I can see are dwarfs.

You can add JB to that list as well!

Capt Y

Thanks. There is reasonable middle ground for debate in us all.

DT is not a finance guy. He is as good with people as RE, PS, DB and even JB( as Hot Dog points out).

As KA is now bigger then CX was when all but RE were running the company, we are trying to compare apples with bananas.

CX is no longer a creche. How many hours in the day would DT need to cover the same ground as his predecessors. The task has grown exponentially in each last half decade. When PS left the role CX was KA in size.

The fact that the door is still open to new LHS's is unique for a company the size of CX.

Each and every one of us has a unique personality. I find comments that DT is an aloof beenie quite amusing. Of all the quoted predecessors, DT probably has the keenest wit, personality and sense of fair play.

His door is open. It is a pity more do not walk through it.

I am not sure the first step is his. If it is then a few gently reminding him of the fact will not be treated as childishly as comments offered from the jumpseat.

Again, I remind you jumpseaters, talk to the principal not the prefects.

Obsolete Observer - Your inappropriate and offensive remarks have been deleted - No further warnings.

Whilst other posters are conducting a mature debate on a very touchy subject your kind of comment contributes nothing.

BlueEagle - Moderator.

Thank you OO. Your response typifies the position of the pit bull element of the AA, oops AOA. Any reasonably moderate stance is vinegar to salve the wounds of your neurosis and responded to with vitriol and other assorted rubbish. No one is saying that DT is Gods gift to aviation or that he should be deified ala PS seems to be. The points made in the 'offending' post are very sensible and Traffic is commended for his forthrightness. More than a few agree with his position. Who is going to make the first real step towards progress here? Not OO and his ilk that's for sure.

_________________________________________________

If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

shortly, why don't you find a mate who is a member of the AOA and watch the video of the last Focus Night. You seem to want everyone to be open and receptive to other peoples' thoughts and ideas. Maybe you shoud afford the same consideration to the group you have forsaken.

By the way, your comment above is really quite amusing. What makes you think you are part of the solution? You aren't a member of the AOA so that means you must be a manager. Otherwise how could you consider yourself to be part of the solution?

6FU. I have watched the videos of 'focus nights', I have many friends and colleagues in the AOA, I do give great thought and consideration to reasoned responses and ideas from members of the AOA. I am trying to be part of the solution. You see I think there are many, sorry I know there are many members of the AOA who also want to be part of the solution and are urging moderation but they are gagged and intimidated from within the AOA. You know the rhetoric - united front, evils of management, support your colleagues (49ers) etc etc - so don't voice any opinion contrary to the party line. I would like, even occasionally, a post which is in itself innocent enough but might contain, God forbid, an ostensibly moderate or even pro-company stance to also be given reasoned consideration and not villified and the writer pilloried. I particularly liked HFX's response to that polite reference to anuses and opinions earlier in this thread. I am glad that you found my axiom amusing. How about this one.
____________________________________________

If you are in a hole and you want to get out, the first thing to do is stop digging.

Did you watch the most recent focus night video? Judging by your reply I don't think so. Have a listen to the two VPs of the union, you might be pleasantly surprised. Personally I think the President makes a lot of sense as well.

I still don't think that you are part of the solution, you have forsaken the union and not admitted to being in management so how can you even think you are part of the process? Your attitudes are almost as entrenched as you claim the union's are.